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Climate Refugees Pt. 2

Re: Will the "North" shoot on Climate Refugees soon?!

Unread postby Newfie » Wed 07 Jun 2017, 08:53:46

I think the "use" for one is to penetrate armor. Or perhaps HV transformer covers to short the windings. Stuff like that.
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Re: Will the "North" shoot on Climate Refugees soon?!

Unread postby Cog » Wed 07 Jun 2017, 10:33:38

30.06 AP will penetrate 3/4" mild steel. So unless transformers are made of something thicker, you don't need 50 Cal. As far as shooting at an armored vehicle with a rifle of any sort, I wouldn't recommend that course of action since it does not promote a long life span. There are other solutions for armored vehicles which put you far away from the scene. Not that I've thought about such things since I am a law-abiding patriot.
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Re: Will the "North" shoot on Climate Refugees soon?!

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Wed 07 Jun 2017, 11:58:01

Newfie wrote:I wonder how you shoulder would feel after sighting it in.

A 308 will do for anything Mere mortals can sufficiently control.

Apparently not bad. It has a very effective muzzle brake system. You can watch you tubes of 105 pound women shooting them without any problem but the blowback flips up the shooting mat or blanket they are prone on.
Midway has ammo for $4.00 a round which is the cheapest I've found and I lose interest right there. My hand loaded 7x57mauser ammo will kill anything I need to kill or at least it always has right up through black bear and moose.
Apparently our sniper teams in the middle east have found them and a smaller version in 338 Lapua quite effective for long range desert shooting.
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Re: Will the "North" shoot on Climate Refugees soon?!

Unread postby Subjectivist » Wed 07 Jun 2017, 18:25:54

Cog wrote:I've considered buying a Barrett but just can't seem to find a use for one. The ammo for it isn't cheap. $3/round is about the cheapest ammo I've seen.


I had a co-worker who was all about his black powder 1853 Lee .577 muzzle loader for hunting. He always used wadded round ball hand cast bullets as some kind of tribute to his civil war ancestors who used them for war, not deer. I gave him a Minne' ball caster but before he got a chance to use it he developed an aneurism near his heart and ended up medically retired with orders to never do anything like shooting that could spike his bp and burst it.

I wouldn't mind giving one of those monsters a try, the British converted tens of thousands of them into Snyder-Lee rifles in 1866-67. After the Snyder coversion they were brass cartridge .577 breech loading rifles. Theorectically a trained Army infantry soldier could, load, aim, fire, extract a cartridge every six seconds until he ran out of bullets. The reason they switched to the Martini-Lee black powder rifle in .303 a decade later was so the soldiers could carry more ammunition. The smaller shells still using black powder meant you had twice as many bullets when you marched into battle, and with the higher rates of fire that made a big difference.

Now if you are trying to keep up with the Joneses it seems like you shoukd get the biggest caliber available, but it seems kind of silly to me.
II Chronicles 7:14 if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land.
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Re: Will the "North" shoot on Climate Refugees soon?!

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Wed 07 Jun 2017, 20:39:19

Subjectivist wrote:
Cog wrote:I've considered buying a Barrett but just can't seem to find a use for one. The ammo for it isn't cheap. $3/round is about the cheapest ammo I've seen.


I had a co-worker who was all about his black powder 1853 Lee .577 muzzle loader for hunting. He always used wadded round ball hand cast bullets as some kind of tribute to his civil war ancestors who used them for war, not deer. I gave him a Minne' ball caster but before he got a chance to use it he developed an aneurism near his heart and ended up medically retired with orders to never do anything like shooting that could spike his bp and burst it.

I wouldn't mind giving one of those monsters a try, the British converted tens of thousands of them into Snyder-Lee rifles in 1866-67. After the Snyder coversion they were brass cartridge .577 breech loading rifles. Theorectically a trained Army infantry soldier could, load, aim, fire, extract a cartridge every six seconds until he ran out of bullets. The reason they switched to the Martini-Lee black powder rifle in .303 a decade later was so the soldiers could carry more ammunition. The smaller shells still using black powder meant you had twice as many bullets when you marched into battle, and with the higher rates of fire that made a big difference.

Now if you are trying to keep up with the Joneses it seems like you shoukd get the biggest caliber available, but it seems kind of silly to me.

I have a 58 caliber Zouave civil war replica rifle that shoots 577 mini or round balls quite well. I've taken a couple of deer with it.
Not something for home defense if your opponent is carrying a semiautomatic.
Caliber isn't everything, it is accuracy and rate of fire that decides the day. The Barret 50 BMG combines semi-auto capability with extremely long range effectiveness and tack driving accuracy.
Of course here in the wooded hills I have no place where I can see approaching enemies 1500 meters away so the weapon is useless to me.
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Re: Will the "North" shoot on Climate Refugees soon?!

Unread postby Newfie » Thu 08 Jun 2017, 07:10:26

Cog,

I know smaller calibers will penetrate, but the .50 will do it at substantially greater distance making the perps much harder to find and stop. I believe a few 2 man teams with good prior field work could bring the USA power grid down for a substantial time. Hard to protect against a determined and smart enemy.
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Re: Will the "North" shoot on Climate Refugees soon?!

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Thu 08 Jun 2017, 07:17:53

Yep Newf, it's a fine line, but isn't it strange how the terrorists focus on what they do? Pretty much proves they are dumb as doggie doo.
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Re: Will the "North" shoot on Climate Refugees soon?!

Unread postby dohboi » Thu 08 Jun 2017, 07:35:32

"Terrorist" seem to be relying on cars, knives and hammers recently. Not exactly sophisticated.
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Re: Will the "North" shoot on Climate Refugees soon?!

Unread postby Newfie » Thu 08 Jun 2017, 09:36:28

Let's hope it stays that way.

But it is strange they waste their live in such a way as to create max emotion not max damage. Somehow being slashed with a knife has more visceral hate than being shot. I guess it's not about damage but about saying "We hate you."
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Re: Will the "North" shoot on Climate Refugees soon?!

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Thu 08 Jun 2017, 10:51:34

We have always fought 'over there' while remaining untouched at home. They have ended that.

They have reached out and touched us, in the form of the total stranger at the Mall, who can pull a knife and stab you without warning. Low tech, and invisible until the moment it happens.

You can't defend against that. Especially when they believe that, by dying in this fashion, they are on their way to their version of Valhalla. We can no longer feel we are safely away from the danger.
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Re: Will the "North" shoot on Climate Refugees soon?!

Unread postby M_B_S » Thu 08 Jun 2017, 11:05:50

Cid_Yama wrote:We have always fought 'over there' while remaining untouched at home. They have ended that.

They have reached out and touched us, in the form of the total stranger at the Mall, who can pull a knife and stab you without warning. Low tech, and invisible until the moment it happens.

You can't defend against that. Especially when they believe that, by dying in this fashion, they are on their way to their version of Valhalla. We can no longer feel we are safely away from the danger.

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Re: Will the "North" shoot on Climate Refugees soon?!

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Thu 08 Jun 2017, 11:29:15

Don't be surprised when we start seeing it in small towns, at the grocery store, in Wal-Mart, places that ordinary people are going about their daily business. They are wanting everyone to feel it could be themselves next. Or their family members.

Newf, I think the real message is that we went to their countries and messed with them, so now they are messing with us in ours. In the only way available to them, asymmetrical warfare.
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Re: Will the "North" shoot on Climate Refugees soon?!

Unread postby Cog » Thu 08 Jun 2017, 11:44:07

Two can play the asymmetrical warfare game. Just saying.
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Re: Will the "North" shoot on Climate Refugees soon?!

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Thu 08 Jun 2017, 12:10:28

In order to stop it, we need to clearly understand what's actually going on.

We can't just call them "terrorists" and swear to eradicate them, and expect to solve the problem.

We have to admit certain facts:
One, there is no way to eradicate them. They are amorphous and invisible until they strike.

Two, the more we intervene in their countries, the more they recruit globally, even within our own country.
We could turn the sands of the Middle East to glass with our nukes, and the problem would still exist.

Three, Bravado and Bluster on our part just makes the situation worse. It may be emotionally satisfying, but does nothing to solve the problem.

The only solution I can see is to get the hell out of the Middle East and let them fight among themselves. They will soon forget about us, when their immediate enemy is next door.

They are just itching to have their Sunni/Shia war. Let them have it.
Last edited by Cid_Yama on Thu 08 Jun 2017, 12:21:00, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Will the "North" shoot on Climate Refugees soon?!

Unread postby Cog » Thu 08 Jun 2017, 12:14:15

Creating a vacuum that the Russians and Chinese rush in to fill? I think not. If you aren't at the table, you can't play the game.

I know for a fact that Joe McCarthy didn't get rid of all the communists in the State Department.
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Re: Will the "North" shoot on Climate Refugees soon?!

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Thu 08 Jun 2017, 12:24:39

That is the thinking that created the problem in the first place. This isn't a game. We have solved our energy problem for now, we don't need what's left in the Middle East.

I say arm all sides and let them at each other.

Cog, you are an ideological anachronism. Your binary thinking makes everyone not a McCarthyite, a Communist. Sorry but reality is far more diverse and complex than your black and white world.

There is more in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than is dreamt of in your philosophy.
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To most people in the world, McCarthyism was a bad thing. A dark chapter in American History.
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Re: Will the "North" shoot on Climate Refugees soon?!

Unread postby dohboi » Thu 08 Jun 2017, 14:23:55

Nicely put, cid. I fear that most of us here are commies and pinkos to our dear cog.
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Re: Will the "North" shoot on Climate Refugees soon?!

Unread postby Cog » Thu 08 Jun 2017, 14:35:22

Not to worry guys. In the camp, you will still get Trump tweets everyday.
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Re: Will the "North" shoot on Climate Refugees soon?!

Unread postby Newfie » Thu 08 Jun 2017, 15:18:27

Cid,
Sadly I've come to the same conclusion. Except the part about arming them, unless the planes and tanks we sell come with a USA controlled self destruct button.

Cog,
Your bouncing back and forth trying to keep up with Trumps foreign policy is giving me whiplash. First is was isolationist, now its bomb 'em. Frankly I can't figure out who "them" is. Shite, Sunni, Kurd, Iran, Quarar, everyone in Syria but Isis. I'm still pissed over that baloney "friendly fire" incident that killed some 90 Syrian troops and our UN Ambasador who told the Russians to get over it. I'm convienced Trump has just adopted the Obama/Hillary policy. We might as well have H in office.
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Re: Will the "North" shoot on Climate Refugees soon?!

Unread postby Newfie » Thu 08 Jun 2017, 15:24:01

Cog wrote:Two can play the asymmetrical warfare game. Just saying.


Really? Then it would not be asymmetrical would it. But seriously, what is "their" equilivent of the World Trade Centers or an open society? How are you gonna convience some young American kid to infiltrate a bazaar and blow the self up? Or are you talking about drones? Which just make more and more martyrs.
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