[onlooker]

Evil, good thoughts. But you see the potent countries REALLY are not about helping the people in these more unfortunate countries. They are exploiting them. It is the model that has existed from time immemorial on this planet. Yes they give them some token assistance. But only for show. The rich countries want the resources of the poor ones, they want cheap slave labor. So in a better world yes your ideas could be very good, but sadly this is not the type of world we live in at the moment.

[Newfie]

So we are exporting our Mexican model to Europe? Ha!

Makes you wonder why neither the Ds or Rs wanted to build the wall.

Let me mull that over.

[dolanbaker]

Germany saw fewer migrants arrive last year, but only because countries further south blocked their path!

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-38584705
Germany says 280,000 asylum seekers arrived there in 2016, a drop of more than 600,000 on the previous year.

The German interior minister said that the decrease was due to the closure in 2016 of the Balkan route and the migrant deal between the EU and Turkey.

The record influx of 890,000 people came as migrants and refugees travelled through Greece and the Balkans.

They headed for Germany after Chancellor Angela Merkel ordered a temporary open-door asylum policy.

[Newfie]

And maybe that's why Erdogan got away with the power grab? Because the EU needs a strong man to stop the flood?

Simple conjecture.

[onlooker]

Sounds quite right and Erdogan is covering himself by claiming and acting like it is all Islamic motivated.

[Tanada]

And maybe that's why Erdogan got away with the power grab? Because the EU needs a strong man to stop the flood?

Simple conjecture.

NATO has always had a weird relationship with Turkey. So long as Russia/USSR was a credible threat they wanted access to Turkey because it gives them close range border access to the old USSR and great influence on the Straits leading into the Black Sea shipping ports. This has been reignited since the whole Ukraine debacle emerged with the coup deposing the legitimate leader and replacing him with a pro EU anti-Russia jerk who NATO decided was the cat's meow.

People gloss over the chain of events that lead to the Crimea crisis as if they had no importance, but trust your common sense, Russia saw a friendly leader on their border deposed and his unfriendly replacement welcomed with open arms by the EU and NATO, including President Obama. How could such an act be seen as anything but a threat by Russia?

Sucking up to Turkey to put even more pressure on Russia is IMO much more motivations than the refugee crisis. Heck Germany doesn't see it as a crisis, they see it as an opportunity to get cheap desperate labor to move to Germany and work for peanuts.

[dolanbaker]

and German pensioners want their pensions paid in full. The only way that can be achieved is the import workers who will pay taxes.

[SeaGypsy]

The real reason for this being allowed & encouraged was always economics, else we would have seen a very different set of strategies- offshore processing & turnbacks for starters, arms embargo to the source regions etc.

Immigration is big business. The target countries have to compete with each other for the cream applicants, which only ever make up a small fraction of total migration, these are investor & skilled migrants. Next priority is family migration, particularly spouses & children born offshore to citizens, assuming safe assimilation & at least financially competent households (applicants must display financial capacity). The next priority is sponsored workers- usually professional. The bottom of the heap is the refugees, particularly unskilled refugees from long term war zones like north Africa.

However you dig into the numbers, this mobility is one of the keys, if not the core driver of all economic activity, particularly of countries where in house population growth has stopped.

A few months ago, my wife became an Australian citizen. The ceremony was held at the local government offices, of about 500 new citizens, there appeared to be less than ten of Anglo/ European extraction. The area we are living is one of the fastest growing ecomies in the world (Wyndham City/ Melbourne) & it is so 100% through migration.

[onlooker]

Absolutely, that is why in the US nothing is done to really come up with Comprehensive Immigration reform and why the wall as it is is porous and not that well defended. Money talks everything else walks

[SeaGypsy]

Yeah & so blindingly obvious, yet rarely rating a mention, let alone honest scrutiny. How many neo nazis really grok that if they are going to stop migration & keep their economic status, they need to double to triple native reproduction- something the womenfolk are mostly not interested in doing. Meanwhile, the economic imperative looms, eventually becoming drastic.

Leads me to contemplate the irony of the requirement for a totally new economic template (zero growth), coming generally out of fringe left or libertarian circles, whilst the fringe right gains sway with anti immigration rhetoric & seemingly none of our talking head/ puppet leaders seem in the slightest capable of reconciling or even beginning to honestly annunciate the predicament.

My estimation is that we hoping for that new template will die of old age well before the topic gets traction politically. TPTB intend to 'move stock'- in exactly the way a farmer does. The byproduct of antagonism creates other opportunities, in the MIC, so as long as the transition to a global labour market is mostly smooth, peace is not prerequisite to movement, but movement has become prerequisite to economic growth- still the absolute imperative of government everywhere.

[dolanbaker]

The bottom line is, if you can't generate growth, import it!
Growth at all costs.

[SeaGypsy]

Along the same lines of thought it is perhaps of note the juncture of ELM, Arab Spring, & the sudden availability of millions upon millions of relatively well educated & skilled migrants- Lybia, Iraq, Syria, almost Egypt & perhaps almost Turkey- produce a more productive class of desperate refugee than say Somalia, Congo, Rwanda or South Sudan. The timing coincides with avoiding the inconvenience of seeing what happens under late stage ELM & a stable authoritarian government. A win win for flagging European economies, just a few pesky terrorists sneaking in is a price to pay to basically save their economies.

[Tanada]

and German pensioners want their pensions paid in full. The only way that can be achieved is the import workers who will pay taxes.

Or here is a shocking thought, the government could incentivize women to bare and raise more children.

[dolanbaker]

and German pensioners want their pensions paid in full. The only way that can be achieved is the import workers who will pay taxes.

Or here is a shocking thought, the government could incentivize women to bare and raise more children.

Most western women are too well educated to have copious numbers of children, it gets in the way of their careers of their chances of having a good lifestyle.

It's mainly the uneducated who have more than two children, they are well supported by the welfare state.

[Tanada]

and German pensioners want their pensions paid in full. The only way that can be achieved is the import workers who will pay taxes.

Or here is a shocking thought, the government could incentivize women to bare and raise more children.

Most western women are too well educated to have copious numbers of children, it gets in the way of their careers of their chances of having a good lifestyle.

It's mainly the uneducated who have more than two children, they are well supported by the welfare state.

With the proper incentives you can have a fine career and a grand lifestyle. It is all about how you allocate the incentives.

[Tuike]

Afghanistan with 40 million people has just returned to stone age. Refugees have begun to pack their suitcases.

[mousepad]

Afghanistan with 40 million people has just returned to stone age. Refugees have begun to pack their suitcases.

And let me guess. Europe is hell-bent to take as many of them as possible.

[Tuike]

In recent news, Merkel and Macron have said Afgans should be helped in neighbouring countries to Afghanistan. They plan to evacuate those who cooperated with Germany and France. Turkey has started to build a wall against Iranian border to stop mass migration.