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THE Oceans & Seas Thread pt 3

Re: THE Oceans & Seas Thread pt 3

Unread postby dohboi » Sun 27 Nov 2016, 14:03:22

More from ol's link:

State lawmakers in Massachusetts and New Jersey are pushing to impose new rules on real estate agents and others, obligating them to disclose climate-related damage like previous flooding.

Banks and insurers need to protect their collateral and investors more by improving their methods for estimating climate-change risks and creating more standardized rules for reporting them publicly, economists warn.

In April, Sean Becketti, the chief economist for Freddie Mac, the government-backed mortgage giant, issued a dire prediction. It is only a matter of time, he wrote, before sea level rise and storm surges become so unbearable along the coast that people will leave, ditching their mortgages and potentially triggering another housing meltdown — except this time, it would be unlikely that these housing prices would ever recover.


I, too, immediately thought about our dear Ibon!
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Re: THE Oceans & Seas Thread pt 3

Unread postby Newfie » Sun 27 Nov 2016, 18:31:51

You guys remember that Miami real estate article I liked to some time back. The one where they acknowledged SLR and went on to say they had to build and develop like crazy befor the public became aware?
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Re: THE Oceans & Seas Thread pt 3

Unread postby dohboi » Sun 27 Nov 2016, 23:34:02

there's a nice piece here on sand erosion:

http://www.theverge.com/2016/11/17/1366 ... ate-change
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Re: THE Oceans & Seas Thread pt 3

Unread postby kiwichick » Mon 28 Nov 2016, 19:31:38

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Re: THE Oceans & Seas Thread pt 3

Unread postby dissident » Mon 28 Nov 2016, 20:20:55

https://www.whoi.edu/news-release/PalauCorals

Barkley and her colleagues found bioerosion rates in Palau corals increased eleven-fold as pH decreased from the barrier reefs to the Rock Island bays. When comparing those results to other low-pH reef sites, a definite pattern emerged.

"All of these naturally low-pH sites that Hannah compared are different from one another in terms of physical setting, ecological connectivity, frequencies of variability and so on. What she discovered is that the only common and consistent response to low pH across all these sites is significantly increased bioerosion," says Cohen.


A previous study published January 2015 in the journal Geology by Thomas DeCarlo, a member of Cohen's lab and a coauthor on this paper, showed that the influence of pH on bioerosion is exacerbated by high levels of nutrients. That finding implies that local management strategies, such as controlling runoff from land, can help to slow the impact of ocean acidification on coral reef decline. Increased runoff from areas of intense agriculture and coastal development often carries high levels of nutrients that will interact with decreasing pH to accelerate coral reef decline.


In other words high pH ain't so great and nutrient runoff makes it worse. Hardly the "high CO2 values are great for life" BS being spouted.
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Re: THE Oceans & Seas Thread pt 3

Unread postby dohboi » Mon 28 Nov 2016, 23:24:28

Joker can't even spell Kerala right.

About what we can expect about everything else from him.

Pure and utter bs.
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Re: THE Oceans & Seas Thread pt 3

Unread postby dohboi » Tue 29 Nov 2016, 09:15:27

There are a few corals in a very few specific places that show some resistance to acidification. We are all glad about that.

But most corals around the world are dying. If you don't know that, you really haven't been paying any attention at all, and there's not much use trying to further enlighten you.
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Re: THE Oceans & Seas Thread pt 3

Unread postby ritter » Tue 29 Nov 2016, 12:22:24

My understanding is that the primary cause of "coral bleaching" is coral jettisoning the algae that live in them due to increased water temperature. They may or may not survive this, dependent upon how long the warmth lasts and how quickly the algae recolonize. Ocean acidification disrupts the ability of coral to grow by dissolving the calcium used for its structure. The two phenomenon are different, but not unrelated. Both happened naturally. Both are being accelerated and exacerbated by climate change.
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Re: THE Oceans & Seas Thread pt 3

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Tue 29 Nov 2016, 13:02:22

peabrain wrote:Corals thrived in acidic waters when CO2 exceeded 2000 ppm . . . at the time ancient petroleum carbonate reefs were laid down.


Wrong again, ye of little brain matter. You just make this shit up, don't you.

The evolutionary history of modern corals is divisible into three geological intervals (1) the Paleogene, when the survivors of end-Cretaceous and Late Palaeocene extinctions proliferated into a diverse cosmopolitan fauna, (2) the Miocene, when this fauna became subdivided into the broad biogeographic provinces we have today and pre-cursors of most extant species evolved, and (3) the Plio-Pleistocene to present, when the world went into full glacial mode and modern distribution patterns emerged.


The first organisms that might be called scleractinians are known from Paleozoic fossils from China and Scotland, but the earliest proliferation of organisms that were clearly ancestral Scleractinia are Middle Triassic and consisted of at least seven, but possibly nine, suborders. These corals did not build reefs; they were small solitary or phaceloid organisms of the shallow Tethys of southern Europe and Indo-China.

Triassic corals were not the ecological equivalents of modern corals; corallites were large and poorly integrated so that phacelloid growth forms (where branches are composed of individual corallites) were dominant. Reconstruction of a Late Triassic coral community. The taxa portrayed may not have occurred in the same geographic region at the same time. The dominant growth forms of the corals are massive and phacelloid. There were no intricately branching corals such are found today and most corals had large corallites. Reconstruction of a Late Triassic coral community. The taxa portrayed may not have occurred in the same geographic region at the same time. The dominant growth forms of the corals are massive and phacelloid. There were no intricately branching corals such are found today and most corals had large corallites.

There was a 5-8 million year hiatus between the collapse of Triassic reef development and the onset of Jurassic reefs, a time of origin of many new scleractinian families.

link


The first 'corals' appeared in the mid-Triassic. During the Triassic-Jurassic extinction event, a time of high ocean acidity and atmospheric CO2, reef development collapsed for millions of years, and resumed again with new coral families in the Jurassic once CO2 came back down.

The precursors of the corals we have today evolved in the mid-Miocene and have NEVER BEFORE seen high ocean acidity or CO2 levels higher than current levels.

The skeletons of corals are made of calcium carbonate which dissolves in conditions of high acidity.

And by the way, carbonate reefs are a classification of a sediment type consisting of large particles. It is not a reference to coral reefs.

You should realize that any time you make something up and post it, I'll be following right behind with the truth and make you look foolish. So do yourself a favor. If you don't know it, don't post it. It wouldn't hurt if you did a little research at non-denier websites and know the truth.
Last edited by Cid_Yama on Tue 29 Nov 2016, 13:39:42, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: THE Oceans & Seas Thread pt 3

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Tue 29 Nov 2016, 13:39:34

As stated there are a host of reasons for coral bleaching and coral die-off that have been well documented. It is not solely the domain of ocean temperature or solar irradiance but can be due to other controls such as pollution release, overfishing, destructive fishing practices, coastal development, introduction of non-indigenous species, unsustainable tourism and tsunamis, etc. There are laboratory studies that support the idea of acidification but they are largely unrealistic simply because they do not apply scale factors appropriately and that is demonstrated by contradictory laboratory experiments that demonstrate certain species resilience in the face of acidification. Two things are important to note:
1. Current oceans are more alkaline than they have been throughout the history of modern corals
2. Modern corals originated some 200 Mya in the mid-Triassic.
With regard to point 1 corals have subsisted in waters that were closer to neutral for millions of years. Since the first recognition of modern corals some 200 Mya ocean waters have been around a 7.7 PH whereas they are currently at about 8.1 PH. This suggests modern corals are able to adapt quite well to more acidic conditions. With regard to point 2 Scleractinian corals were first recognized in the Triassic and are the most important reef builders today. They thrived in oceans worldwide over the past 200 million years when ocean temperatures were much higher. Indeed temperatures were considerably higher on average from the Triassic through to the Eocene, a period of more than 150 million years.

The point here is if you use earth history as an empirical experiment you are left concluding that modern corals should not currently be at risk from ocean temperatures or acidification but other issues could be of importance. Lot's of literature on this topic which I can supply references to if anyone is interested.
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Re: THE Oceans & Seas Thread pt 3

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Tue 29 Nov 2016, 13:48:35

Already preempted you RockDoc. (see my previous post) Once again you twist the truth with the best of them.

Anyone who wants the truth about the history of corals, follow the link in my above post.

Peabrain, if you think significantly increased bio-erosion is 'Pristine', you don't know what the word means. Sometimes it's hard to know who you are lying to the most. Us or yourself.
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Re: THE Oceans & Seas Thread pt 3

Unread postby kiwichick » Tue 29 Nov 2016, 14:20:22

coral expels algae when water too warm.....


http://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/8693 ... coral-reef
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Re: THE Oceans & Seas Thread pt 3

Unread postby kiwichick » Tue 29 Nov 2016, 15:09:38

@ pstarr.....the point is that the oceans are warming......and sea levels are rising ....coral will not only have to move to the Arctic or Antarctic....and move vertically with rising sea levels ....they will also have to evolve to cope with acidic waters

but wait there's more ...falling oxygen levels

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2015 ... ygen-fish/
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