[M_B_S]

NO!

Ghadafi was a mad tyrant he and most of his fellowers are dead! Thats good news!

Bad news is that after the revolution another revolution took place.

We have to wait. Time will tell the truth.

M_B_S

[Quinny]

Libyans probably had the best standard of living of all the North African nations under Ghadafi

[M_B_S]

Qinny

You mean Ghadafis undertakers?! Or the Libyen rotting in prisons? Or the women raped by Ghadafi + Sons?

Yes living under Ghadafi is living in paradise....

You read the green book to often

Lol

[dolanbaker]

Meanwhile in the Ukraine...

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28285208
Government forces in eastern Ukraine have begun storming the rebel-held city of Luhansk with tanks, Russian news agency reports quoting rebels say.

Heavy fighting erupted as columns of government armour attacked from the south and west, rebel military leader Igor Strelkov was quoted as saying.

He said there were unconfirmed reports of special forces landing by helicopter inside the city of 425,000 people.

There was no immediate confirmation from Kiev but bloggers report fighting.

Pro-Russian separatist rebels have been fighting the government in Kiev since declaring independence in Luhansk and the neighbouring region of Donetsk in April.

[dissident]

Meanwhile in the Ukraine...

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28285208
Government forces in eastern Ukraine have begun storming the rebel-held city of Luhansk with tanks, Russian news agency reports quoting rebels say.

Heavy fighting erupted as columns of government armour attacked from the south and west, rebel military leader Igor Strelkov was quoted as saying.

He said there were unconfirmed reports of special forces landing by helicopter inside the city of 425,000 people.

There was no immediate confirmation from Kiev but bloggers report fighting.

Pro-Russian separatist rebels have been fighting the government in Kiev since declaring independence in Luhansk and the neighbouring region of Donetsk in April.

Sanitized BBC garbage. No mention of the indiscriminate shelling of residential areas by Kiev regime forces. Their modus operandi for the whole "anti-terrorist campaign". Anyway, looks like the assault has failed. I hope the rebels got their hands on more armour.

Western media coverage is replete with omission of vital facts and use of Pavlovian trigger phrases like "pro-Russian". Since NATO is pro-regime and US spokesbimbos claim that indiscriminate shelling of civilians is a "measured, legitimate response" what would a human with a functional brain expect the rebels to be?

Here is some of that indiscriminate slaughter of civilians that the precious western media and "human rights" organizations could give a flying f*ck about:

attacks on Marinka (warning some graphic parts):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=p ... TMgVqmYluE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=p ... yZ0nqFDyPE

attack on outskirts of Donetsk (WARNING VERY GRAPHIC):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=p ... lVavDFnn-o

It is clear from many such videos that civilians are caught by surprise and die. There is no attempt by the Kiev regime forces to give any notice or to use tactics that frighten off civilians. For example actually sending infantry for street to street fighting and not remote, war criminal coward attacks with unguided artillery and MLRS.

[dissident]

http://www.novayagazeta.ru/news/1684633.html

The body of the chief editor of a small newspaper in Mariupol was found in the forest near Dnipropetrovsk. He had clear signs of torture. He was abducted June 18th by what appears to be members of the Kolomoisky's Dnepr-1 gang.

All of this is in regime controlled territory. I wonder if Amnesty International will make any note of this incident. I guess they are too busy crying about three looters who were shot in rebel controlled territory.

[Withnail]

Your larger point about sectarianism is correct. The US has done so well, at being a melting pot, thanks to our Constitution and our principles. We were a melting pot from the beginning as colonies -- dissidents coming here from all kinds of factions. Puritans, quakers, Cathloics, all persecuted minorities.

The USA did even better at genocide, which is the reason it currently straddles a whole continent.

[Pops]

They might as well, we're not using it ...

You can't get more serious about protecting the people from their government than the Fifth Amendment to the Constitution, specifically in its most critical clause: "No person shall be... deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law." In 2011, the White House ordered the drone-killing of American citizen Anwar al-Awlaki without trial. It claimed this was a legal act it is prepared to repeat as necessary. Given the Fifth Amendment, how exactly was this justified? Thanks to a much contested, recently released but significantly redacted -- about one-third of the text is missing -- Justice Department white paper providing the basis for that extrajudicial killing, we finally know: the president in Post-Constitutional America is now officially judge, jury, and executioner.

http://www.tomdispatch.com/post/175872/ ... gton/#more

[evilgenius]

So, which is it that makes America great: the imperial acquisitions or the understanding (gradually reached) that political power, in the form of rights, resides in the individual? As it has matured the US has become a nation that takes a new person's ethnicity in stride. We were very successful recently at including within us many Vietnamese people, for example. We have always been including people from our own hemisphere.

Our fears about immigration, I think, are not so much based on fear of brown skinned or Spanish speaking people so much as they are that the influx of them brings with it a lack of understanding concerning what it means to be an American. Americans walk a fine balance between ethnic heritage and the understanding of political power. We believe that political power rests with the individual, but we know and honor our heritage as much as we can sometimes. There is a lurking realization that organized individuals, built around the notion of group identification such as ethnicity, can be dangerous to our point of view. Every individual feels their equal status threatened by such a realization.

[radon1]

Better not to touch Six while he sleeps.

On the subject, taking the US constitution might actually be a sensible thing to do for them. Not because it is suitable for them - it's probably not - but because they won't be able to change it as easily as they have been doing with their existing one over the entire time of the post-Soviet history. Every new corrupted crook assuming the office immediately sought to change the constitution in a way he saw fit. But the US version is sanctified - all of their oligarchy are on the hook by the US anyway.

Their prime minister, Yatsenyuk, attempted to flee the ship a couple days ago, announcing his resignation, but then quickly revoked it after receiving a phone call from the White House. Perhaps, these people out there are masters in the art of persuasion.

[Subjectivist]

Moscow has protested against plans by Ukraine to carry out missile tests near Crimea, raising the diplomatic temperature between the two countries.

Russia's aviation agency, Rosaviatsia, said Ukraine had notified it of tests to be carried out in "Russia's sovereign air space" on 1 and 2 December in the Simferopol area.

The Russian defence ministry said it had presented the Ukrainian military attache with a note of protest in response.

It said the airspace involved, over Crimea's west coast, "violates territorial seas of the Russian Federation".

But in a statement on his official website, Ukraine's National Security and Defence Council Secretary, Oleksandr Turchynov, said his country was following protocol.

"Ukraine carries out the missile tests within the framework of all the international obligations and treaties," he said.

"That's why we ask Russia not to hinder the tests by its hysterics and provocations."

http://news.sky.com/story/russia-in-spa ... t-10672565

[dissident]

Moscow has protested against plans by Ukraine to carry out missile tests near Crimea, raising the diplomatic temperature between the two countries.

Russia's aviation agency, Rosaviatsia, said Ukraine had notified it of tests to be carried out in "Russia's sovereign air space" on 1 and 2 December in the Simferopol area.

The Russian defence ministry said it had presented the Ukrainian military attache with a note of protest in response.

It said the airspace involved, over Crimea's west coast, "violates territorial seas of the Russian Federation".

But in a statement on his official website, Ukraine's National Security and Defence Council Secretary, Oleksandr Turchynov, said his country was following protocol.

"Ukraine carries out the missile tests within the framework of all the international obligations and treaties," he said.

"That's why we ask Russia not to hinder the tests by its hysterics and provocations."

http://news.sky.com/story/russia-in-spa ... t-10672565

Anyone who thinks that it wasn't a Ukrainian missile that brought down MH-17 is an idiot. They already shot down one airline several years ago and denied responsibility and when cornered still have not accepted any liability. Now they want a missile free fire zone around Crimea and international flight corridors. Same MO from the same perps.

[Sixstrings]

Ukraine Vice PM: Less US Support Dangerous to Region’s Stability

When asked what Ukraine might do should Trump pull back US support of Ukraine, Klympush-Tsintsadze said, “First and foremost, we are counting on ourselves, so it’s not that we are sitting there and waiting for someone to help, that is very important to understand. It is the Ukrainian Army that is holding the Russian aggression right now without foreign boots on the surface, on the ground.”

The Ukrainian army is 250,000 soldiers strong and has made drastic improvements in bringing independent battalions of volunteer soldiers into the official military framework. This unity, Klympush-Tsintsadze said, has helped to improve equipping soldiers uniformly and in a more timely way, but more work is to be done there. ...

Klympush-Tsintsadze added Ukraine has devoted 5 percent of its GDP to defense and security spending in its country, far above the 2 percent required for NATO countries. Ukraine is not a member, but, in the past, has expressed its desire to be inducted.

However, Ukraine can’t go it alone. Russia “only understands the language of unity and the language of power and that is why we will continue with all the foreign partners in order to make sure there are no fractures between them and Russia does not exploit those fractures because they are very good at that,” Klympush-Tsintsadze said.
http://www.defensenews.com/articles/halifax-security-forum-uncertain-trump-putin-relationship-driving-nato-closer-together

Senators vow to counter Trump on Russia

The increased pressure from the Senate comes as the House passed legislation that would impose mandatory sanctions on anyone who provides financial or technological support to Syria’s government, which is mired in a civil war. The bill was widely seen as targeting Russia and Iran, the Syrian regime's two biggest backers.

GOP lawmakers have bristled for years, believing President Obama hasn’t been firm enough against Putin, or done enough — including providing lethal aid — to help Ukrainian fighters combat Russian-backed separatists.

Lawmakers have also quietly voiced concerns about Trump’s positioning on Moscow for months, but are increasingly speaking up as the president-elect begins to set up his administration.

Rep. Adam Schiff (D-Calif.), ranking member of the House Intelligence Committee, questioned the choice of former military intelligence chief Michael Flynn as Trump’s national security advisor.

"I am deeply concerned about his views on Russia, which over the last 12 months have demonstrated the same fondness for the autocratic and belligerent Kremlin which animate President-elect Trump's praise of Vladimir Putin," Schiff said.

Sen. Ben Cardin (D-Md.) echoed that Friday, saying he is “disturbed by General Flynn’s relationships and ties with Russian actors.”

“There are Democrats and Republicans that are, I think most members of Congress, that are very concerned about Russia’s activities and how we try to reconcile that with statements that Donald Trump made during the course of his campaign,” he said at a Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS) Russia forum.

Cardin, who is keeping Dems' top spot on the Foreign Relations panel next year, said he would introduce “comprehensive” legislation to push back against Russia’s “violation of international norms.”

He added that the legislation would push back against Russian cyberattacks and “put on the table” expanded sanctions against individuals found to be tied to the hacks.

Cardin has previously noted diplomats' concerns about Trump. He said Friday that a Trump administration must recognize that Russia is a “global bully and adversary…[it is] not a partner.” ...

Noting the short schedule, Sen. Bob Corker (R-Tenn.), the committee chairman, said “that’s something we’ll take up after the first of the year.”

But Corker demurred when asked what the Trump White House's response would be to new legislation cracking down on Russia.

“I don’t really know,” he said. “I think people are trying to figure out where they are going to be.”
http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/306856-senators-vow-to-counter-trump-on-russia

[Sixstrings]

The Ukraine and its corporate supporters (Hillary Clinton and the United States government) are clearly in criminal violation of international law.

And how is it any better to have Putin and Russian oligarchs in charge? Ukrainians ALREADY lived under Russia for LONG time.

They chose CHANGE (their president quit and flew to Moscow in a helicopter) -- for West Ukrainians, change meant leaning more toward being European and Western ideas.

And now in our country, a lot of Americans voted for Putinism -- without really understanding that's what they were doing / it ever being explained to most voters.

MOST people are not FOR this Russian Putinist stuff, guys, and our US Congress is most certainly NOT for it.

I hope Graham and McCain and Democrats, and about half the Republcians, follow through with the Russia hearings in January -- our elected representatives plan hearings on Ukraine, Syria, the Russian hacking of the Democratic National Committee, and the issue of Russian influence in the US election.

[AdamB]

The US and its allies should have attempted to reach an agreement with Moscow as their belief that Ukraine can win a conflict against Russia is “suicidal,” iconic American investigative journalist Seymour Hersh has argued.

Betting on Ukraine victory was ‘suicidal’ – Seymour Hersh

[Serial_Worrier]

What's disgusting to me is that Biden will do just enough to allow Ukraine to survive but not to win. It's like when Lucy keeps pulling the football away from Charlie Brown at the last second.

[theluckycountry]

What's disgusting to me is that Biden will do just enough to allow Ukraine to survive but not to win. It's like when Lucy keeps pulling the football away from Charlie Brown at the last second.

Well of course? Did you think it was about freedom and democracy like the TV told you? No, it's about billions in profits for the industrial military complex and they will drag it on like Iraq, milking it for every cent they can. Why anyone with half a Brain would attribute these decisions to a demented old pedophile is the real curious thing.

[ralfy]

https://twitter.com/cirnosad/status/1685278673635827712

What's the new US strategy in Ukraine?

Originally was to create a threat that Russia couldn't ignore: a nazi regime designed to draw the Russians into Ukraine & then imposition of attrition cost over years.

On February 2022, the US was excited to see its plan work. Did it?

(subsequent points in the thread)

[Plantagenet]

a nazi regime .... Russia

Nuff said!



Nuff said!

Cheers!