[StarvingLion]

Copious Abundance

[regardingpo]

Saudi Arabia has 30 years of 10M barrels/day production of oil with no decline.

What makes you think that?

Official data provided by the Saudis, what else? Of course, there's no good reason to believe that data, since they've been claiming the same amount of proven reserves for the past 30 years.

[Tikib]

StarvingLion fusion is a legitimate possible source of energy... its just going to be way too late.

[StarvingLion]

StarvingLion fusion is a legitimate possible source of energy... its just going to be way too late.

Whats legitimate about it? Fusion and Fission are constantly rehashed from the 50's and 60's research which leads nowhere. The other half of the equation, storing electrical energy directly without converting to another form is another unsolved puzzle.

How can one be serious when there is nothing to be serious about?

Flying Kites and Thorium Whatever are not viable.

[Tikib]

Flying kytes are viable the problem is aircraft...
thorium is very nearly ready theres 3 molton salt designs which are ready to go
And in the field of fusion they keep making progress its just too slow to make a difference.

[Plantagenet]

Saudi Arabia has 30 years of 10M barrels/day production of oil with no decline.

What makes you think that?

Official data provided by the Saudis, what else? Of course, there's no good reason to believe that data, since they've been claiming the same amount of proven reserves for the past 30 years.

Maybe the Saudis are secretly refilling their geologic reservoirs with oil to make up for all the oil they pump out------that would explain why their "proven reserves" never change.

Cheers

[sunweb]

Hawk creek - Those tractors are reproducing themselves like horses or oxen? That would be fun to watch.

[Hawkcreek]

Hawk creek - Those tractors are reproducing themselves like horses or oxen? That would be fun to watch.

That just gave me a terrible mental image - having to do with a broken driveshaft


I don't really think they can do that, but the average tractor usually lasts 20 to 50 years, so maybe that would give us a chance for a gradual powerdown?

[SumYunGai]

Having watched the train wreck of peak oil approach the human race for 20 years now, I just gotta say we have been pathetic.

Scientists and engineers have been warning about peak oil since the 1960's but despite this it was only in the early 00's we got serious about alternative energy.

And as many people on here well know the oil depletion problem isn't just about energy it's about infrastructure, you need enough energy to replace both electric and transportation usage AND the infrastructure to do it. So its something that would take a long time to do.

Also we have concentrated almost all of our funding on traditional wind and solar even though the higher eroei's necessary to comfortably replace fossil fuels are found in
high altitude wind and thorium/fusion reactors.

It is hard not to feel pretty negative these days, but I think you are being overly negative, Tikib. I don't think that Humanity is found wanting at all. For the most part, we just do the best we can with the best of intentions. I don't think anyone is to blame for our predicament.

[StarvingLion]

Thorium is very nearly ready theres 3 molton salt designs which are ready to go

Ready to go for what? Pilot plant stage to see if those high temp chemically caustic tubs last more than a year or two before they get scrapped and written off as a financial disaster?

[SumYunGai]

I understand Tikib's frustration and anger. We as individuals have allowed ourselves to be conned by the marketers. Our government and the fourth estate have been commandeered by the corporations and their advertisers instead of the citizenry. Rather than ecology/systems-thinking, our schools teach rote, obedience, shopping. After a long journey (and a momentous personal effort) from hope/optimism > disgust I am in agreement with Tikib; there is no hope. We f#cked it.

I agree that that there is no hope and that we f#cked it, pstarr. I just don't think it is rational to assign blame. It doesn't even make any sense to me. Our species exponential growth was going to get us eventually. Our reproduction is instinctive and our over reliance on powerful but finite fossil fuels sealed our fate long ago. I see Humanity as a species that is facing the most extreme of thermodynamic destinies. It sucks, but we couldn't have done anything about it anyway.

I think we are all in this together, although I guess I could be persuaded to hunt down all the oil industry shills who consistently lied to us for all of these years. LOL. Kidding, mods. Just a little pre-apocalyptic humor to keep the spirits up and avoid negativity.

[radon1]

Etp bots invading. Contamination alert.

[Hawkcreek]

I understand Tikib's frustration and anger. We as individuals have allowed ourselves to be conned by the marketers. Our government and the fourth estate have been commandeered by the corporations and their advertisers instead of the citizenry. Rather than ecology/systems-thinking, our schools teach rote, obedience, shopping. After a long journey (and a momentous personal effort) from hope/optimism > disgust I am in agreement with Tikib; there is no hope. We f#cked it.

Succinct and accurate summation paragraph. I agree there is no hope of avoiding an eventual collapse and dieoff.
I still have hope, however, that we can come out of the other side with a more sustainable society. Even that will be difficult though, unless the dieoff manages to kill off a good part of the greed that has brought us to this point.

[Hawkcreek]

I wasn't trying to say that all people are greedy. It only takes one greedy person in a village to eventually own all the goats.
In today's society, I would call them the one percent.
Its easy to understand.
We are all taught that if we work hard we can do well for ourselves.
If we work hard, and are really smart, we can do even better.
If we work hard, are smart, and have a good education, even better.
If you have all that, and make a lot of money, you can have influence.
If you have influence, you can change societies rules to favor you.
Someone who only works hard is easily separated from his goats.
Soon, the one percent own all the goats, and consider the ones who only work hard to be no better than slaves.

[peripato]

Hawk I assume regional collapses and dieoffs, not necessarily on a global scale. I have much hope for my isolated corner of the world, behind the Redwood Curtain. After all, California is the wealthiest state in the wealthiest nation on earth. And very defensible. lol

I also don't believe in the innate greed of people. Most folks are fine, just want to live a humble family life free of want. And full of security for them and theirs. Greed has been forced upon us.

I don't understand how California would withstand the same fate as the rest of the world, we're all interconnected, Cali has a boatload of problems (financial, social, ecological) and besides you can't call debt, wealth. American exceptionalism at work again?

Plus, humans are humans. Greed wasn't "forced on us". We "like it that way", because it's who we are as a species.