[Tanada]

I don't believe that 20-somethings believe that rape is OK, I think that 20-somethings cut Muslims a PC break, just as they do Hispanic illegals who commit crimes in "sanctuary cities", and Black-on-Black crime in the USA's inner cities. Political Correctness overcomes all, they have even been told to "not be judgemental" about such things.

...

I believe that crime is crime, and if you do the crime, you do the time. If that means that more "people of color" end up behind bars, so be it.

Thanks for pointing out the obvious. I guess it's just hard for me to square that instinctively, but I think you must be right about the PC break for various minorities.

Where my "punishment should fit the crime" outlook has trouble comprehending that to me, scale matters. So while I believe Muslims very much deserve a break in not being demonized and picked on because they happen to be Muslim -- my mind is just blown if the liberal PC movement cuts rapists a break NO MATTER WHO THEY ARE. (It's as though the victims just don't matter, which I can't accept).

OS, I repeated the entire text of the article above for your convenience, the link was just to prove it was complete and unaltered.

Yes, you did. I wasn't sure it was the whole thing (you didn't use a quote box, so I didn't pay sufficient attention), and had problems using the link (site performance problems, I think). So my bad on that.

Good point, I went back and put the quote in the quote box to clarify things and reduce confusion.

[sparky]

.
On the trillions who just vaporized , that's not real money , that's financial froth !
It has , like a beer , lost its head .
since we are into a secular recession , no big drama , the world economy is deflating and Brexit is as good a motive to hit the brakes , it was bound to happen , so no big deal in landing back on earth .
that's a typical example of a black swan event ,
Sh**t happen !

When the governance system is healthy , it pick itself off the floor , shake the dust
and look for some low ranking mug to blame .

On another black swan ,Obama just announced the nomination of Rose Gottenmoeller to the post of deputy head of Nato.
for those who are hazy about Nato power structure , the secretary general is always a european civilian ,
the position is akin to the doorman in a top hotel , he is there just for decoration .
the real power is in the deputy , always an American whose role is to be the political commissar to keep the yokel in line .
the present one Alexander Vershbow is a fanatic neocon .
the good lady is a very competent career diplomat with a deep knowledge of the Russian government , she was the head negotiator of the recent nuclear arm reduction treaty and the Russians had a lot of respect for her professionalism

[Loki]

David Cameron , having resigned as prime minister , is now merely a caretaker and had said he would not invoke article 50
let the next sucker do it !

He probably just wants to hide under a rock for the rest of his life.

there is a strong suspicion , Britain will welsh on their own people , after all it was only a referendum and as such not bidding under the Westminster system .

I doubt they'd dare. The political elite have already been kicked in the balls by Leave voters, they'd be literally tarred and feathered by their former constituents if they backed out now.

the British politicians are now tearing each others apart , while the same is happening all over Europe ,
the French has a lame duck president and elections next year , Italy is struggling , the German coalition is tottering with the Social democrat loosing their shirt each election for being Merkel lap dog , Belgium had no government for two years and things improved

You forgot Spain. Austria also seems to be split. Hell, is there any country left in Europe that isn't undergoing political upheaval? Luxembourg maybe? Estonia?

My bet is that for Bruxelles , democracy is a figure of speech

I've probably been watching too much Leave propaganda ("Brexit the Movie" was a good watch), but my understanding is that the EU was never terribly interested in democracy. Strikes me very much as an experiment in technocracy.

They're being awfully whiny about the Brexit, though, I thought technocrats were supposed to be dispassionate nerds, not emotional toddlers throwing a temper tantrum when things don't go their way. No wonder the Brits wanted to leave their party.

[SeaGypsy]

Good discussion. Just to add, if free movement between EU States goes, the weight of seabourne arrivals lands with the frontline countries, which happen to be among the most economically struggling in the Union. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. The Brexit throws the whole deal in the air, where it all lands?

[Loki]

Brexit is not about economics, and it never was. Brexit is about intolerance for a flood of Muslim refugees and the behaviors they display.

The Brexit vote was about a lot of things, but Muslim rape culture wasn't one of them. The Rotherham scandal was perpetrated by Pakistanis, who are either illegals or descendants of those who legally immigrated to the UK as members of the Commonwealth. EU had nothing to do with it. I heard a lot more about Polish immigrants than I did about Muslims.

I'm sure some Leave voters were worried about the Muslim horde heading their way, but nothing I've seen/read/heard about the Brexit referendum suggests that this was a prime motivating factor among Leave voters.

[Loki]

Good discussion. Just to add, if free movement between EU States goes, the weight of seabourne arrivals lands with the frontline countries, which happen to be among the most economically struggling in the Union. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. The Brexit throws the whole deal in the air, where it all lands?

It's my understanding that "refugees" don't have the right to free movement that EU citizens enjoy, though that legal technicality doesn't stop them, of course.

It's possible that if the EU dissolved it would reduce the 'pull' factor that's attracted so many economic migrants. Especially if it was combined with a major downturn in the European economy.

I've heard Australia is dangerously underpopulated, maybe all those Syrians, Afghans, and Eritreans could sail their dinghies a bit further south?

Just kidding. You Aussies know how to deal with that. You could teach the Greeks a lesson.

[Sixstrings]

Jim Rogers: Brexit Blowback "Worse Than Any Bear Market You've Ever Seen"
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-06-27/jim-rogers-brexit-blowback-worse-any-bear-market-youve-ever-seen

Brexit's broken promises: Health care, immigration and the economy

So much for all those promises. Leading politicians in the campaign to pull the U.K. out of the European Union are back-pedaling fast on a number of pledges, particularly over extra money for health care.

The retreat has prompted howls of outrage, from politicians who wanted Britain to stay in the EU as well as some Leave voters who say they feel "cheated."
http://money.cnn.com/2016/06/27/news/economy/brexit-broken-promises/

Brexit has caused the Labour Party to descend into total omnishambles

Shadow foreign secretary Hilary Benn (who stood to become Britain’s equivalent of secretary of state should Labour retake Parliament) called Corbyn early Sunday to say he and others were losing confidence in Corbyn’s leadership. Corbyn responded by firing Benn, who media reports had suggested was plotting an anti-Corbyn coup.

What followed was total mayhem, as at least 23 of the 31 members of Corbyn’s shadow Cabinet have quit as of this writing. The shadow ministers for education, justice, health, business, work and pensions, energy, environment, transport, and many more have all resigned in the wake of Benn’s sacking. ...

And his supporters are marching on Parliament to protest the effort to depose him as Labour leader.

At this moment, the Parliamentary Labour Party is meeting at Westminster as raucous pro-Corbyn protests take place outside and member after member condemns Corbyn. A vote of no confidence by MPs, conducted by secret ballot, is expected tomorrow
http://www.vox.com/2016/6/27/12040056/brexit-corbyn-labour-coup-benn

Corbyn's show of strength: Embattled Labour leader calls on grass-roots supporters as '10,000' turn out for Westminster rally
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3661724/Labour-exodus-continues-three-shadow-ministers-quit-protest-Corbyn-s-leadership-bringing-total-14-deputy-leader-set-tell-resign.html

Labour tears itself apart: Desperate Corbyn clings on but faces coup today after 46 of his frontbenchers quit
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3663110/Labour-tears-apart-Desperate-Corbyn-clings-faces-coup-today-46-frontbenchers-quit.html

[KaiserJeep]

Brexit is not about economics, and it never was. Brexit is about intolerance for a flood of Muslim refugees and the behaviors they display.

The Brexit vote was about a lot of things, but Muslim rape culture wasn't one of them. The Rotherham scandal was perpetrated by Pakistanis, who are either illegals or descendants of those who legally immigrated to the UK as members of the Commonwealth. EU had nothing to do with it. I heard a lot more about Polish immigrants than I did about Muslims.

I'm sure some Leave voters were worried about the Muslim horde heading their way, but nothing I've seen/read/heard about the Brexit referendum suggests that this was a prime motivating factor among Leave voters.

You appear to be wrong about this. The Rotherham scandal involved 1400 children who were sexually abused over a 16-year period by British citizens of primarily Pakistani ancestry but who were 100% Muslims. This is from Wikipedia's main article:

Widespread organised child sexual abuse took place in Rotherham, South Yorkshire, England, between 1997 and 2013. Local investigations into the abuse began in 1999, although some reports were never finalised or made public by the authorities. In 2010, five men of Pakistani heritage were found guilty of a series of sexual offences against girls as young as twelve. A subsequent investigation by The Times reported that the child sex exploitation was much more widespread, and the Home Affairs Select Committee criticised the South Yorkshire Police force and Rotherham Metropolitan Borough Council for their handling of the abuse.

An independent inquiry into child sexual abuse in the town, led by Professor Alexis Jay, was established in 2013 for Rotherham Council. The inquiry's initial report, published on 26 August 2014, condemned the failure of the authorities in Rotherham to act effectively against the abuse and even, in some cases, to acknowledge that it was taking place. The report estimated that 1,400 children had been sexually abused in the town between 1997 and 2013, predominantly by gangs of British-Pakistani men. Abuses described included abduction, rape, torture and sex trafficking of children.

Members of the British-Pakistani Muslim community condemned both the sexual abuse and the fact that it had been covered up for fear of "giving oxygen" to racism. The leader of Rotherham Borough Council, Roger Stone, resigned, as did the council's Chief Executive, Martin Kimber, and the director of children's services, Joyce Thacker. Shaun Wright, the Police and Crime Commissioner (PCC) for South Yorkshire who had been a Labour councillor in charge of child safety at the council, stood down on 16 September, after initially refusing demands that he should do so. The Home Secretary, Theresa May, blamed the failure of the authorities in Rotherham on "institutionalised political correctness", and Denis MacShane, the former MP for Rotherham during the period covered by the report, admitted that he had been "guilty of doing too little" to investigate the extent of the sex crimes being committed in his constituency.

The complete article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotherham_child_sexual_exploitation_scandal

Muslim men whose offenses "included abduction, rape, torture and sex trafficking of children", and were largely UK citizens. Given a PC pass by the liberal press and the Labour Party members. Then - in the eyes of the average Briton - things again got worse when the UK agreed to absorb Syrian refugees - over 3 million of them.

http://www.vox.com/2016/6/23/12005814/brexit-eu-referendum-immigrants

I believe it was the single largest cause of the Brexit being approved. Just as when Donald Trump appeals to those voters who want to enforce this nation's borders, he'll beat an establishment candidate like HRC.

What this is about in this country is the party of Political Correctness - the Democrats - looks to new immigrants, legal and illegal, as it's new constituency. Without a constant flood of new immigrants, they cannot win any national office - because the Republicans have the advantage that as people age, most turn more conservative, and many lifelong Democrats become Republicans late in life. Now the Baby Boomers are the problem, just as they represented a "progressive opportunity" in the 1960's and 1970's.

For that reason, large numbers of Democrats really do want completely open borders. Even though the illegals number in the tens of millions already. If the new arrivals can't vote, their children will.

This calculation on the part of Democrats is pragmatic, cold-blooded, and completely correct arithmetic.

[sjn]

KJ, what has that to do with the EU? "Pakistanis" were entitled to settle here at the end of British rule of India, others have followed since. Pakistan is not in the EU!

[vtsnowedin]

KJ, what has that to do with the EU? "Pakistanis" were entitled to settle here at the end of British rule of India, others have followed since. Pakistan is not in the EU!

While we wait for KJ to respond I'll take a shot at it.
The 1400 victims from Rotherham were raped and otherwise sexually abused by Muslim men who committed these heinous crimes because their religion and their barbarity (I will not call it "Culture") permitted and even encouraged them to do so even after growing up and living in the UK for years.
Now the UK is faced with a new wave of immigrants that are Muslim and even more barbaric then those already here and continued membership in the EU prevented any actions to stem the tide. The first step to prevent any more Rotherdams is to leave the EU and shut the border to Muslim immigration. What to do with the ones already in the Kingdom is quite another matter.

[Newfie]

I don't think it has anything to do with legalities but our human nature. Britain sees itself as an Angli Saxon land. It is not natura for humans, of any culture, to willingly absorb so many of a different culture that the original base looses power. It may happen but not without an ugly fight.

It often expresses itself as Nationalism but it is really something deeper in our psyches. I think Trupm gets it and will use it.

[KaiserJeep]

Correct, the "Brexit" was a way to embody a deeply felt and widespread opinion by many many older Britons that large numbers of Muslims did not belong in the country that founded Protestantism, the second largest branch of Christianity after the Catholics. There was also a healthy dose of simple racism, from Britons of all ages.

The same kind of upswell is building in California. The target of this one is "Mexicans", a derogatory term for all the various South American and Central Americans who flood across our Southern border. These folks are actually of multiple nationalities and speak largely Spanish, but also Portuguese and several Native American languages. California is rife with "sanctuary cities/counties/towns" and multiple campuses such as UC Berkeley, where one will find crackpots who listen to the "souls of trees" as if they were Ent tree-herders. We are also ground zero for Hispanic turf wars about drugs (I have served on juries here) and there is a bone-chilling level of violence between Hispanic gangs and those that represent other nationalities and ethnicities.

One day all will be shocked again when (as happens periodically), the political pendulum swings back and we elect another Republican Governor, then the State Legislature turns, and all of a sudden, the electoral votes in this "winner take all" state flip from Democrat to Republican (almost a quarter of the total), and a national election turns as California turns. If that scenario seems far-fetched to you, consider a couple of Republicans from this state named Reagan and Schwarzenegger. Similar to the present day scenario, the 1960's and 1970's were a period of rampant Liberalism in California and the entire country. Right up until the 1980 election, when Reagan changed the whole course of the country.

[vtsnowedin]

Correct, the "Brexit" was a way to embody a deeply felt and widespread opinion by many many older Britons that large numbers of Muslims did not belong in the country that founded Protestantism, the second largest branch of Christianity after the Catholics.
.

Better dust off your encyclopedias and look up Martin Luther.

[KaiserJeep]

Correct, the "Brexit" was a way to embody a deeply felt and widespread opinion by many many older Britons that large numbers of Muslims did not belong in the country that founded Protestantism, the second largest branch of Christianity after the Catholics.
.

Better dust off your encyclopedias and look up Martin Luther.

Brain fart, I meant to say the Anglican Church, referred to in this country as the Episcopal church. Still, Protestants all.

[onlooker]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestantism
Germany

[Loki]

KJ, what has that to do with the EU? "Pakistanis" were entitled to settle here at the end of British rule of India, others have followed since. Pakistan is not in the EU!

Oh no, has Pakistan left the EU as well?

[radon1]

Iceland! Iceland! ... Iceland!

[Lore]

All we need now is a Government (Trump is over here, we may keep him !!!!!)

Gas

Oh please, please do and we promise not to be Indian traders with him!