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THE Global Dimming Thread (merged)

Re: THE Global Dimming Thread (merged)

Unread postby Subjectivist » Sat 14 Nov 2015, 19:48:19

careinke wrote:Tanada,

I was under the impression the over all difference from the US grounding of planes after 911, was a gain of about 2 degrees F.

Another study that took advantage of the grounding gave striking evidence of what contrails can do. David Travis of the University of Wisconsin-Whitewater and two colleagues measured the difference, over those three contrail-free days, between the highest daytime temperature and the lowest nighttime temperature across the continental U.S. They compared those data with the average range in day-night temperatures for the period 1971-2000, again across the contiguous 48 states. Travis's team discovered that from roughly midday September 11 to midday September 14, the days had become warmer and the nights cooler, with the overall range greater by about two degrees Fahrenheit.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/space/contrail-effect.html

The article above say the science is still unclear on how much effect contrails actually have. Hansen thinks the CO2 emission is much worse than the contrail effect.

I can certainly see the argument that contrails may be a "net warmer" though.


Aren't global warming effects the ones you feel when the sun isn't shining at night?
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Re: THE Global Dimming Thread (merged)

Unread postby Tanada » Sat 14 Nov 2015, 22:56:05

careinke wrote:Tanada,

I was under the impression the over all difference from the US grounding of planes after 911, was a gain of about 2 degrees F.

Another study that took advantage of the grounding gave striking evidence of what contrails can do. David Travis of the University of Wisconsin-Whitewater and two colleagues measured the difference, over those three contrail-free days, between the highest daytime temperature and the lowest nighttime temperature across the continental U.S. They compared those data with the average range in day-night temperatures for the period 1971-2000, again across the contiguous 48 states. Travis's team discovered that from roughly midday September 11 to midday September 14, the days had become warmer and the nights cooler, with the overall range greater by about two degrees Fahrenheit.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/space/contrail-effect.html

The article above say the science is still unclear on how much effect contrails actually have. Hansen thinks the CO2 emission is much worse than the contrail effect.

I can certainly see the argument that contrails may be a "net warmer" though.


It wasn't a 2 C gain, it was a 2 C increase in the difference between the daylight high and the overnight low. The night time temperatures dropped over 1 C despite the fact that the daytime temperatures went up about 0.5 C. The increase by day was the result of less dimming from contrail cirrus effect, the cooler nighttime lows was because there was less contrail cirrus reflecting IR radiation back to the surface.

Global warming is most obvious at night and during winter, in other words the periods when the sun is not directly adding thermal energy to the local environment. Under those conditions the IR emitted from the ground layer is reflected more by anything causing a greenhouse effect including all sorts of clouds, not just the cirrus or contrail cirrus.

It has been known for as long as people paid attention that cloudy nights are much warmer than clear nights. We can't do much at all to influence low altitude clouds, but for the last 60 years we have been putting more and more contrails in the 26,000-39,000 foot layer of the atmosphere.

At first people viewed contrails as a sign of technological progress, almost all of them came from jet aircraft which people thought of as the latest greatest thing ever. Over the last decade I have grown to hate the dang things. They cause a slight cooling by day and a modest warming by night and thus make the weather more pleasant for the average person. I don't object to people being more comfortable, but to the extent that the comfort masks global warming and helps people ignore the physics that shape weather and climate contrails are a "bad thing".
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Re: THE Global Dimming Thread (merged)

Unread postby Subjectivist » Wed 24 Feb 2016, 16:05:54

As China closes more of their oldest dirtiest coal burning plants there has been a little bit of reporting on clearer skies in Japan and islands in the Pacific. They used to have more high altitude haze which is gradually lessening, meaning the global dimming is being alleviated.

Does anyone have any solid reports about this? I couldn't find anything online the American news media is politics obsessed for the last several years.
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Re: THE Global Dimming Thread (merged)

Unread postby dohboi » Thu 25 Feb 2016, 11:20:34

wrt radiative forcing of contrails, T, as usual is right. The RF charts on pages 8-105 and 8-107 on the link below show contrails as a small but significant positive (warming) forcing.

https://www.ipcc.ch/pdf/assessment-repo ... _Final.pdf

ETA: Ah, I found a transportable (I hope) copy of that chart:

Image
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Re: THE Global Dimming Thread (merged)

Unread postby dohboi » Thu 25 Feb 2016, 11:30:04

Good question, S. Besides the El Nino and just the underlying ongoing GW, the loss of aerosols from these plants could be part of the reason we're seeing such a bump in the rates of GW over the past few months. And apparently much more to come:

http://www.motherjones.com/environment/ ... -shut-down


The World's Biggest Climate Culprit Will Shut Down 1,000 Coal Mines This Year:
With deeper cuts to follow.


The good news is that this may mean that China's carbon emissions peak well before 2030.
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Re: THE Global Dimming Thread (merged)

Unread postby Tanada » Thu 03 Mar 2016, 12:47:47

interesting report came out a couple weeks ago, in Italian. I don't speak, write or read Italian but this being the 21st Century I used Google Translate and here is what they have to say.

HOW MUCH MORE SHALL THE CHEMICAL ACTIVITIES, EVEN MORE DROUGHT IN THE FUTURE, AND ALWAYS LESS RAIN FALLS fall.

The data to support this claim is undisputed, but the media hide. No rain for months, is drought globally, pollution skyrocketing. In fact, given the continuing drought and wind shortage, the situation of air pollution in urban centers has become very serious.

The traffic restriction measures prove pitiful lies to divert public opinion, likely to hit the cause less pollution to leave the field open to major causes: factories and clandestine geoengineering.

Thousands of citizens will suffer respiratory problems, if not worse. No newspaper says that next summer will be hot and more disastrous than the last. No one says that the groundwater will further become poor, that the price of fruit and vegetables will quadruple, while the drinking water will double.

In our opinion, these are precisely the objectives of chemical activities in our skies, it is as if the aim is to project a depletion of our water resources.

The strategic aims?

Mainly three: to weaken the Euro; promote the privatization of water; pave the way for super GMOs that will be born cabbage from the desert ...

DATA TO SUPPORT THIS STATEMENT are undisputed, REGARDING THE EFFECTS ON ENVIRONMENT OF SATURATED BY NOW nanoparticles HYGROSCOPIC.

Precipitation decreased a bit 'all over the world. Among other things, the excessive amount of condensation nuclei of very small size prevents the water vapor to form fairly large drops and heavy such as to fall as drops of rain. The imbrifere clouds are swept away by the nanoparticles dispersed by aircraft and replaced by large, compact and dirty artificial blankets extending over the territories of several states.

In addition to drought due to the excessive number of small condensation nuclei, we must consider the problem of reducing the phenomenon known as evapotranspiration, due to the lower radiation related to stratospheric geoengineering and management of solar radiation. Let's not forget the wind dropped, a phenomenon that has a negative effect on the rate of evaporation.

Comparing current satellite photographs of the Earth with the images taken from space, from the first half of the 70s of the twentieth century, there is a shocking difference. You do not see larger areas of clear sky. Now there are few terse surfaces while chemical veils now occupy most of the regions.

ACCORDING TO THE LATEST SCIENTIFIC EVALUATION OF THE 30% OF THE RAYS OF THE SUN DOES NOT REACH THE SURFACE OF THE PLANET, compared to a few decades ago.

This scenario is called "global dimming" or "global dimming." This fact is not disputed by the international scientific community, but is not shown the true genesis.

So why do we continue to trust the media and the regime meteorologists?

The few researchers who have had the courage to denounce geoengineering have been marginalized by the same propaganda system that plagia the public about an endless list of problems. The others are silent. It would seem that their salary is far more important than truth.

Meanwhile, the atmospheric degradation, alteration of atmospheric processes and pollution of the biomes are still restless.


http://www.ecplanet.com/node/4932
https://translate.google.com/#auto/en/
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Re: THE Global Dimming Thread (merged)

Unread postby vox_mundi » Mon 14 Mar 2016, 12:01:51

How cleaner air could actually make global warming worse

A significant amount of the climate change caused by greenhouse gas emissions in the past century has been hidden from us, scientists say — by another type of pollution that actually cools the climate and temporarily cancels out some of the warming. Two new studies, both released today in the journal Nature Geoscience, address the powerful influence of aerosols — fine particles or drops of liquid often released by industrial activity — on the climate, and suggest that as nations around the world work to reduce this type of air pollution, we will begin to see more rapid warming than expected. And that could hurt our ability to meet the climate goals set in last year’s Paris Agreement.

... This effect is already having a significant impact on certain parts of the world, as one of the new Nature Geoscience studies points out. That paper examines the impact of European reductions in aerosol emissions on warming in the Arctic, which is proceeding at a faster rate than other parts of the world. Out of all the regions of the world, Europe has reduced its aerosol loading the most in the past several decades, which means its policies have likely had the biggest effect on recent aerosol-related climate changes.

Using simulations from a climate model, which took changes in aerosol loading into account, the authors conclude that as much as 0.5 degrees Celsius of the warming that took place in the Arctic between 1980 and 2005 can be explained by aerosol reductions in Europe during that time. In other words, as the aerosol “mask” is being pulled away, researchers are seeing an enhanced regional warming as a result.

... other analysis suggests that about a third of the continental warming that occurred between 1964 and 2010 was masked by the cooling effect caused by aerosols. In other words, greenhouse gas emissions during that period had a bigger effect on the climate than they actually appeared to at the time. Taking this into account, the researchers then calculated Earth’s transient climate sensitivity and found that at the time of carbon dioxide doubling — whenever that occurs — we should see a temperature increase of about 2 degrees Celsius above preindustrial levels. (... equilibrium climate sensitivity will be higher - >3.0)

“Obviously, [our study] has the implication that we can’t allow for carbon dioxide doubling to happen if we care deeply about these warming limits,” Storelvmo said. “And so it has really implications in the sense that the higher the transient climate sensitivity is, the more fossil fuels will have to stay in the ground.”
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Re: THE Global Dimming Thread (merged)

Unread postby Tanada » Wed 31 Jan 2018, 10:45:21

The idea of spraying a haze of sun-dimming chemicals high above the Earth as a quick way to slow global warming faces so many obstacles that it may not be feasible, a leaked draft U.N. report says.

The U.N. review of a planetary sunshade, mimicking how a big volcanic eruption can cool the planet with a veil of debris, is part of a broad study of climate technologies ordered by almost 200 nations in the 2015 Paris Agreement.

Proposals by some scientists to spray chemicals such as sulphur high in the atmosphere from aeroplanes have won more attention since Paris as a relatively cheap fix, costing perhaps $1 billion to $10 billion a year.

But such geo-engineering may be 'economically, socially and institutionally infeasible,' according to a draft obtained by Reuters covering hundreds of pages on risks of droughts, floods, heat waves and more powerful storms.

The draft, by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) about ways to limit warming to 1.5 degrees Celsius (2.7 Fahrenheit) above pre-industrial times, is due for publication in October.

It could still change substantially, the IPCC said.

Problems involved with 'solar radiation management' include testing and working out rules for a technology that could be deployed by a single nation, or even a company, and might disrupt global weather patterns.

And it 'would result in an 'addiction problem'; once started, it's hard to stop,' the draft says.

A halt after several years could lead to a jump in temperatures because greenhouse gases would continue to build up in the atmosphere.

David Keith, faculty director of Harvard University's Solar Geoengineering Research Program which is working for a tiny outdoor experiment to dim sunshine, said there was a misguided 'taboo' against examining the technology.

'We need a serious research effort to understand its risks and potential benefits. Then we will be able to write informed assessments,' he wrote in an e-mail.

But many scientists are sceptical.

'To deploy it safely ... would take many decades,' said Myles Allen, a professor of geosystem science at Oxford University.

Afforestation: This technique would irrigate deserts, such as those in Australia and North Africa, to plant millions of trees that could absorb carbon dioxide.

Drawback: This vegetation would also draw in sunlight that the deserts currently reflect back into space, and so contribute to global warming.

Artificial ocean upwelling: Engineers would use long pipes to pump cold, nutrient-rich water upward to cool ocean-surface waters.

Drawback: If this process ever stopped it could cause oceans to rebalance their heat levels and rapidly change the climate.

Ocean alkalinisation: This involves heaping lime into the ocean to chemically increase the absorption of carbon dioxide.

Drawback: Study suggests it will have of little use in reducing global temperatures.

Ocean iron fertilisation: The method involves dumping iron into the oceans to improve the growth of photosynthetic organisms that can absorb carbon dioxide.

Drawback: Study suggests it will have of little use in reducing global temperatures.

Solar radiation management: This would reduce the amount of sunlight Earth receives, by shooting reflective sulphate-based aerosols into the atmosphere.

Drawback: Carbon dioxide would still build up in the atmosphere.


He said it was 'completely misleading' to suggest it could be an easy short-cut to slow warming.

Given the long time needed for research, it would be better to focus on ways to limit greenhouse emissions, he said.

Allen said he was giving his personal views, not of the IPCC draft of which he is an author.

The draft also says rising temperatures could breach 1.5C by mid-century unless governments take unprecedented action.

The Paris Agreement has been weakened by U.S. President Donald Trump's plan to withdraw.


LINK
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Re: THE Global Dimming Thread (merged)

Unread postby GHung » Wed 31 Jan 2018, 11:11:40

Artificial ocean upwelling: Engineers would use long pipes to pump cold, nutrient-rich water upward to cool ocean-surface waters.


I had an idea of using floating or buoyed solar arrays that either pump air to depths below the top thermal layer to create an upwelling current, or use electrolysis to create a stream of oxygen bubbles from the sea water. The hydrogen could be used in a balloon to suspend the solar arrays above the ocean surface 8O . If storms were imminent, the hydrogen could be released, submerging the arrays below the surface until the storm passed. A small desal system could be used on board to periodically spray the system down for cleaning.

Offshore wind farms could also divert surplus production to similar purposes.
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Re: THE Global Dimming Thread (merged)

Unread postby Tanada » Wed 31 Jan 2018, 12:48:32

GHung wrote:
Artificial ocean upwelling: Engineers would use long pipes to pump cold, nutrient-rich water upward to cool ocean-surface waters.


I had an idea of using floating or buoyed solar arrays that either pump air to depths below the top thermal layer to create an upwelling current, or use electrolysis to create a stream of oxygen bubbles from the sea water. The hydrogen could be used in a balloon to suspend the solar arrays above the ocean surface 8O . If storms were imminent, the hydrogen could be released, submerging the arrays below the surface until the storm passed. A small desal system could be used on board to periodically spray the system down for cleaning.

Offshore wind farms could also divert surplus production to similar purposes.



The did an experiment about a decade ago where they fitted a buoy with a long flexible weighted hose. The hose arrangement had a one way flapper valve on the top so as the buoy rode up a wave crest it would pull the hose up the water column then as it rode down the water in the hose would pour out the top as the hose was lowered back down, the flap would close at the bottom of the wave cycle and repeat with every wave moving the buoy up and down in a pumping action. IOW it was a wave powered pump. They deployed it in a nutrient desert area of the Pacific where there were no materials to support the plankton layer and after two weeks the nutrients pumped up from the depths had created a plankton bloom and a ecosystem community based around that bloom. The problem they ran into was storms were very rough on the hose arrangement the test article broke after just a couple weeks.

When I saw that demonstration I thought, why not use an old SPAR platform that isn't producing oil or gas any more? You could tow it out to one of the ocean 'plankton deserts' and anchor it, then attach windmill powered pumps to the ballast tank system on the bottom to pull up nutrient rich deep sea water spray it over the side to aerate it. Alternatively you could hook the windmills to air compressors and release compressed air at great depth where it would rise to the surface creating an upwelling and bringing the cold bottom water up with it. Either system works though the water pumping system is much simpler because you simply pump water out of the top of an open pipe only having to raise it a few meters, natural pressure at the bottom of the pipe will force bottom water up to replace what you remove from the top.
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Re: THE Global Dimming Thread (merged)

Unread postby ozcad » Sun 04 Feb 2018, 13:09:51

Neat trick, a single technology pump. No electronics or nukes req'd. Worth pursuing. Somebody should definitely do something about something.
Tanada said
...storms were very rough on the hose arrangement

Damage should be reducible by making the top few metres of pipe from a corrugated material or of a telescoping design. This should soften the blow during reversals of pumping pressure. The bottom 99.9% of the tube would be almost stationary vertically.
Useful - a self-cleaning method, a radio beeper, flashing hazard light. Any thoughts?
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Re: THE Global Dimming Thread (merged)

Unread postby onlooker » Fri 09 Feb 2018, 13:21:33

https://grist.org/article/geoengineerin ... ve-planet/
But there’s a catch. Our surplus of aerosols is a huge problem for those of us who like to breathe air. At high concentrations, these tiny particles are one of the deadliest substances in existence, burrowing deep into our bodies where they can damage hearts and lungs.


According to a new study, we might be locked in this deadly embrace. Research by an international team of scientists recently published in the journal Geophysical Research Letters says that the cooling effect of aerosols is so large that it has masked as much as half of the warming effect from greenhouse gases. So aerosols can’t be wiped out. Take them away and temperatures would soar overnight.

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