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Brisbane airport expansion

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Brisbane airport expansion

Unread postby Scrub Puller » Mon 31 Mar 2014, 10:54:22

Yair . . . this story is getting a lot of play in local media . . . http://www.bne.com.au/corporate/upgrading-your-airport and was used to ridicule my suggestion (at a local social gathering) that there may be a looming problem with the cost and availability of liquid fuel for aircraft . . . this quote from the site

Flights are forecast to grow from 227,000 in 2014/15 to over 360,000 by 2035


The consensus was that huge corporations would not be spending two and a half billion dollars on airport upgrades to accommodate a huge growth in traffic if there were any problems.

So who has got it wrong?

I wander around here and on other sites and looking at graphs and charts and following conversations and it seems obvious there is a problem . . . these graphs and charts and conversations are available to anyone with an internet connection and yet 99.9% of people still believe the earnest talking heads in suits.

It has me beat and I'm all through even mentioning the subject.

Cheers.
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Re: Brisbane airport expansion

Unread postby Tanada » Mon 31 Mar 2014, 12:40:26

From an economics standpoint airports are a big money loser for their host community, they absorb huge tracts of land at zero or low property tax rates, they require massive infrastructure investments due to traffic patterns that they cause, they are noisy and create a LOT of pollution even if you ignore the jet exhaust. Airports are expensive status symbols and as long as politicians care more about status than money they will keep getting taxpayer money life support.
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Re: Brisbane airport expansion

Unread postby dolanbaker » Mon 31 Mar 2014, 16:44:56

Don't forget that many of these "mega-projects" create a lot of economic activity during the construction phase, makes things look good for a while.
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Re: Brisbane airport expansion

Unread postby Newfie » Mon 31 Mar 2014, 18:40:00

scrub, you got it right. they are heavily invested in a make believe future and cant hear the truth.

That is how Casanndra felt, its as old as the hills.

good lucj
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Re: Brisbane airport expansion

Unread postby Shaved Monkey » Mon 31 Mar 2014, 18:50:30

When you have Australia's latest Conservative government publicly state they wont spend money on rail and want to be remembered as building the roads of the 21st century,you know the lunatics are running the asylum.
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Re: Brisbane airport expansion

Unread postby Sys1 » Tue 01 Apr 2014, 15:04:55

People here don't see beyond plane oil consumption itself...
Planes are not so expensive. Finally, you don't have to build and maintain roads or rails to move people with a plane. Moreover, big planes nowadays use few oil per passenger, so it could be peak oil friendly, at least more than personnal car.
Roads are very expensive to maintain, and when roads starts to decay, cars decay very fast too... I think planes won't go away so easily, fist because no alternative exist to transcontinental travel, second because engines and planes shapes are always getting more efficient, and third because plane is an extraordinary symbol for mankind, a dream for milleniums which became reality several decades ago.
Note that I think sailing ships will have a great future, especially with computer/solar panels piloted ones.
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Re: Brisbane airport expansion

Unread postby dolanbaker » Tue 01 Apr 2014, 15:50:39

Sys1 wrote:People here don't see beyond plane oil consumption itself...
Planes are not so expensive. Finally, you don't have to build and maintain roads or rails to move people with a plane. Moreover, big planes nowadays use few oil per passenger, so it could be peak oil friendly, at least more than personnal car.
Roads are very expensive to maintain, and when roads starts to decay, cars decay very fast too... I think planes won't go away so easily, fist because no alternative exist to transcontinental travel, second because engines and planes shapes are always getting more efficient, and third because plane is an extraordinary symbol for mankind, a dream for milleniums which became reality several decades ago.
Note that I think sailing ships will have a great future, especially with computer/solar panels piloted ones.

In a country like Australia, air travel makes more sense than road for people simply due to the distances involved. For freight I suppose sea makes most sense due to the fact that most of the population centres are near the coast.
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Re: Brisbane airport expansion

Unread postby Shaved Monkey » Tue 01 Apr 2014, 19:20:22

Lets not forget the airships
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Re: Brisbane airport expansion

Unread postby Newfie » Tue 01 Apr 2014, 20:24:26

dolanbaker wrote:[quote="Sys1"
For freight I suppose sea makes most sense due to the fact that most of the population centres are near the coast.


Uh, pop centers are on coasts due to sea transport.

Helium shortage?

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science ... e-10031229
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Re: Brisbane airport expansion

Unread postby Scrub Puller » Tue 01 Apr 2014, 23:40:22

Yair . . . There is little coastal trade in Australia due to the unreasonable union wage expectations . . . I can't see this changing any time soon.

As regards efficiencies (expressed in tons per gallon) I believe truck/trailer is typically less than fifty and barge is over five hundred.

The difference of course is speed which is completely unnecessary with properly managed logistics.

The speed comment applies to every thing (pretty much) fuel costs would reduce if transport slowed down

Cheers.
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Re: Brisbane airport expansion

Unread postby peterjames » Wed 02 Apr 2014, 04:42:03

Today, BP announced it was closing down its Brisbane refinery, next year. It appears that in a few years time, international carriers are going to have to fit long range fuel tanks to their planes, just so they can touch down in Australia (and return).
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Re: Brisbane airport expansion

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Wed 02 Apr 2014, 06:43:02

Bollocks. We still have lots of refining capacity, over 700,000 barrels a day.
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Re: Brisbane airport expansion

Unread postby peterjames » Wed 02 Apr 2014, 07:25:16

SeaGypsy wrote:Bollocks. We still have lots of refining capacity, over 700,000 barrels a day.


Minus Bulwer, next year it will leave kwinana in Western Australia, Shell in Geelong, Mobil in Altona and Caltex in Brisbane. For a total refinery capacity of approx. 450,000 barrels a day. Not bad for a country that uses upwards of 1 million barrels a day.
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Re: Brisbane airport expansion

Unread postby alokin » Wed 02 Apr 2014, 22:52:50

It is not air travel vs. road it is air travel vs. train. What you want is a good train service. Because people do not only want to travel from Brisbane to Perth or Sydney, they want to travel from Brisbane to the Sunshine coast,the Gold Coast. The rail system (and the public transport system in Brisbane) is laughable.

You might want to cooperate with the Griffith Uni for that reason, or you might want to involve the bushcare ladies around the airport area. The Guardians Australian page will certainly be open for a story. Find out about the influential people living in the area affected. Brisbane is very different and it is difficult to get the people to get up.
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Re: Brisbane airport expansion

Unread postby Scrub Puller » Thu 03 Apr 2014, 01:20:09

Yair . . . From my perspective the tilt train service from coastal Central Qld to Brisbane and then the suburban commuter rail system is really pretty good.

What amuses me though are the car parks at the stations when you get within fifty miles of the CBD . . . thousands of SUV's and 4x4's commuters have driven to the station and left all day in the sun.

In fifty years you would hope they would all be small efficient cars and bikes.

Cheers.
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Re: Brisbane airport expansion

Unread postby alokin » Thu 03 Apr 2014, 02:26:30

Good?? Maybe it has improved in the last 4 years since we moved away. When we moved to Brisbane we didn't own a car and as an European I never thought of buying a car, but getting around in Brisbane without a car is simply not possible. Buses were the last service on Sunday is at 3 pm at beaches for example. My husband went to the sunshine coast on train and it cost him 4 or even 5 hours, bus stations which are located well away from the city cat..... In the end we bought a car, because that is the only way to get around. The public system is meant as complementary transport system instead of the main transport system. Back then I had to fold up my stroller in the bus with shopping bags and two kids!
I guess you own a car and get on the public transport only for the city and back.
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