[John_A]

The bottom line was maximum force was on the side of Zimmerman not Trayvon.

Then I recommend those who wish to harm others consider carefully prior to taking a sidewalk to a gun fight. Self defense isn't about using only enough force to get away. If is about using enough force to stop what you believe is about to hurt or kill you. I don't care if Zimmerman happened to jam a hand grenade into Trayvon's mouth and pulled the pin, bashed in his skull with a sledgehammer or managed to maneuver him in front of the muzzle of an Abrams M1A1 and lit it off, any would work, all are perfectly acceptable, and George still gets a not-guilty. Gettin'er done is the criteria, the how is backseat driving and cocktail party speculation.

[Lore]

The bottom line was maximum force was on the side of Zimmerman not Trayvon.

Then I recommend those who wish to harm others consider carefully prior to taking a sidewalk to a gun fight. Self defense isn't about using only enough force to get away. If is about using enough force to stop what you believe is about to hurt or kill you. I don't care if Zimmerman happened to jam a hand grenade into Trayvon's mouth and pulled the pin, bashed in his skull with a sledgehammer or managed to maneuver him in front of the muzzle of an Abrams M1A1 and lit it off, any would work, all are perfectly acceptable, and George still gets a not-guilty. Gettin'er done is the criteria, the how is backseat driving and cocktail party speculation.

You're making an unproven assumption. How do we know that it wasn't Zimmerman shoving his gun 3 inches deep in Trayvon's belly and he was just defending himself?

[PrestonSturges]

And even though GZ had taken 6 - 12 months of MMA fighting and grappling classes, he was pinned by a kid weighing 1/3 less than him, simply by having the kid sit on him?

What would have worked is this:
1) GZ sits on TM, and can keep him down because he is so much heavier
2) TM hits and scratches him because TM's arms are longer, inflicts little damage because he has very little muscle mass and he's on the ground.
3) TM screams for help because he's pinned, or it could be GZ because he has no idea what to do
4) GZ is able to reach the gun at his back because he's on top
5) GZ has TM by the lapel area of the hoodie, shoots TM while yanking on sweatshirt, which explains the powder burn pattern.

Maybe that's close to the truth, but we'll never know.

If the prosecution had even tried to tell a coherent story, they could have gotten a conviction with 1/10 the evidence.

I think there should be a lawsuit, not so much for TM, but to expose the complete lack of effort on the part of the prosecution.

[Subjectivist]

And even though GZ had taken 6 - 12 months of MMA fighting and grappling classes, he was pinned by a kid weighing 1/3 less than him, simply by having the kid sit on him?

What would have worked is this:
1) GZ sits on TM, and can keep him down because he is so much heavier
2) TM hits and scratches him because TM's arms are longer, inflicts little damage because he has very little muscle mass and he's on the ground.
3) TM screams for help because he's pinned, or it could be GZ because he has no idea what to do
4) GZ is able to reach the gun at his back because he's on top
5) GZ has TM by the lapel area of the hoodie, shoots TM while yanking on sweatshirt, which explains the powder burn pattern.

Maybe that's close to the truth, but we'll never know.

If the prosecution had even tried to tell a coherent story, they could have gotten a conviction with 1/10 the evidence.

I think there should be a lawsuit, not so much for TM, but to expose the complete lack of effort on the part of the prosecution.

Witness stated under oath TM was on top and GZ was on ground getting pounded. Injuries to TM consisted of damaged knuckles and gunshot wound. injuries to GZ consisted of head trauma both a smashed nose and gashed/bruised head. Either you are saying the witness perjured himself or you have some kind of wish fullfillment fantasy going on here.

[Oneaboveall]

I find myself in the really uncomfortable position of agreeing with Newt Gingrich of all people:

...The fact is that six women sat in a jury for five solid weeks,” he continued. “I watched these protesters, none of whom read the transcript, none of whom sat through five weeks of the trial, all of whom who are prepared basically to be a lynch mob. They only wanted one verdict...

And in this recent case, a Texas man shot a woman in the neck and killed her for refusing to have sex with him after he paid her $150.

From what I read, this woman advertised as an "escort" and showed up at the man's apartment. She then took the $150, said she had to give it to her driver, ran outside, jumped into the car, and tried to speed off. That's when the "client" shot at the feeling car. While I don't approve of shooting in the back, it sounds like she was trying to juice this guy and paid the price.

[John_A]

How do we know that it wasn't Zimmerman shoving his gun 3 inches deep in Trayvon's belly and he was just defending himself?

We don't. We can speculate about how it was all a setup and involved 3 of Zimmerman'd friends who he is covering for, little green men made him do it, the CIA plant hiding in the bushes framed Zimmerman and actually did it instead, we can speculate straight into the stratosphere on how any of this went down.

Which is why we then gather up all the info we have, and present it to the jurors. And they decide for all of us. And did. Thumbs up for Florida jury women!

[PrestonSturges]

"....The official report, prepared by the medical examiner in Volusia County, Fla., also found that the 17-year-old Martin had one other fresh injury — a small abrasion, no more than a quarter-inch in size — on his left ring finger below the knuckle."

[John_A]

And even though GZ had taken 6 - 12 months of MMA fighting and grappling classes, he was pinned by a kid weighing 1/3 less than him, simply by having the kid sit on him?

GZ is a weasel, and like those who need liquid courage or a gun to feel like a man, his mistake was stepping out of his car thinking his gun was like putting on a Superman suit.It isn't, but most blowhards who carry because of the way it makes them feel wouldn't even admit it.

Makes perfect sense to me that some weasel who fits the description of a typical power tripping male cop wanna be would get his butt kicked by some skinny high school kid and would be screaming like a girl during the confrontation.

I'll bet the gun was almost an afterthought, who wants to bet GZ was so scared early on he forgot he had it on him?

[PrestonSturges]

I find myself in the really uncomfortable position of agreeing with Newt Gingrich of all people:

...The fact is that six women sat in a jury for five solid weeks,” he continued. “I watched these protesters, none of whom read the transcript, none of whom sat through five weeks of the trial, all of whom who are prepared basically to be a lynch mob. They only wanted one verdict...

Yeah because so many white folks have been "lynched" by blacks.

That's not a slip of the tongue, that's Newt using carefully chosen racially charged language in the most offensive possible way while promoting a fantasy world of white victimization.

If we ever elect a jewish president, I'm fairly sure that Newt would pop up at B'nai B'rith saying "Let's not forget the real victims of the Holocaust - the Aryan race," with his usual doughy smirk.

[Lore]

I'll bet the gun was almost an afterthought, who wants to bet GZ was so scared early on he forgot he had it on him?

Not for a moment. If it wasn't for the gun, which obviously was the only thing holding up his weak spine, he'd never have the courage to confront the kid.

[Oneaboveall]

Yeah because so many white folks have been "lynched" by blacks.

That's not a slip of the tongue, that's Newt using carefully chosen racially charged language in the most offensive possible way while promoting a fantasy world of white victimization.

If we ever elect a jewish president, I'm fairly sure that Newt would pop up at B'nai B'rith saying "Let's not forget the real victims of the Holocaust - the Aryan race," with his usual doughy smirk.

I did notice the hyperbolic term.

[dinopello]

Nobody but Zimmerman knows what really happened and he ain't testifying. Although in a civil suit he could be compelled to. But the witnesses were conflicting about who was on top, who was screaming etc. Here's what I think happened.

GZ cruising in his car thinks he spotted one of the black guys that had been breaking into homes. TM notices creepy guy following him and starts some evasive type maneuvers (walking fast, looking around, maybe changing route). To GZ, this confirms that this is a bad guy. GZ exits vehicle and confronts TM. TM probably refuses to answer GZ or is otherwise uncooperative with GZ's attempted detention. GZ may have pulled the weapon or not, but somehow a scuffle ensued. TM may have thought his life was in danger but TM was probably winning the fight and GZ may have thought his life was in danger because he wrongly assumed that TZ was a criminal. GZ shoots and kills TM. GZ at the time probably thought himself a hero because he thought he took out a public menace.

Stand your ground is really a 'don't be the dead guy' law because dead men cannot tell their tales.

[PrestonSturges]

This is pretty entertaining
http://calorielab.com/news/2013/07/03/g ... al-eating/

At the time of the killing GZ outweighed TM by about 35 lbs - Police estimate of 195 for GZ v. 160 for TM autopsy report.

Since then GZ is estimated to inhaled over 400,000 extra calories to pudge up for the trial.

[John_A]

I'll bet the gun was almost an afterthought, who wants to bet GZ was so scared early on he forgot he had it on him?

Not for a moment. If it wasn't for the gun, which obviously was the only thing holding up his weak spine, he'd never have the courage to confront the kid.

That's pretty much what I said related to him getting out of his car. But for him to get pummeled, wrestle around on the ground, people yelling for help, I'm betting he forgot the thing because while it may have given him courage to get out of the car, he sure wasn't thinking about it until it was almost to late.

[PrestonSturges]

I have little doubt the Zimmermans are on the phone right this moment trying to package themselves as the next white trash reality tv stars. The Martins came through this with way more dignity than I probably could have managed, but the Zimmermans look like a bunch of circus animals. GZ's brother seems completely brain dead except that he won't STFU to save his life. His last gem of wisdom is that GZ has to go through life being afraid of vigilantes. Teh stupid, it burns.

[Lore]

I have little doubt the Zimmermans are on the phone right this moment trying to package themselves as the next white trash reality tv stars. The Martins came through this with way more dignity than I probably could have managed, but the Zimmermans look like a bunch of circus animals. GZ's brother seems completely brain dead except that he won't STFU to save his life. His last gem of wisdom is that GZ has to go through life being afraid of vigilantes. Teh stupid, it burns.

Just maybe his brother should have used more common sence and reserve in not shooting the guy? Then again, that would be hoping for too much from the gun toting ignoranti culture of America.

[John_A]

What ever happened to civility and manners?

If that was still around, Trayvon would be alive. Nowadays when someone starts beating on you, it seems more reasonable to just buss a cap in them.

Two rude a##holes come to a confrontation; one ends up dead. Court finds surviving a##hole not guilty. Bunch of a##holes get upset, other bunch cheers and gets ready to kill more a##holes.

Sounds about right.

[Oneaboveall]

I @#%$&* hate prosecutors:

Angela Corey Fires Whistleblower Who Revealed The Withholding Of Evidence From Zimmerman Defense:

(IT director Ben) Kruidbos received a letter today telling him that he “can never again be trusted to step foot in this office.” This obviously angry termination followed his extraction of photos from the cell phone of shooting victim Trayvon Martin that showed a gun, a marijuana plant and jewelry, as well as a text message referring to a gun transaction. Kruidbos was surprised that the evidence was not turned over to the defense — a common violation in criminal cases where prosecutors withhold evidence to prevent its use by the defense.

http://jonathanturley.org/2013/07/15/an ... n-defense/

[PrestonSturges]

I @#%$&* hate prosecutors:

Well we never heard about Zimmermans actual arrest record either. But TM's cell phone information wasn't known? It was certainly out there on the internet, and that would seem to only lead back to the IT guy who got fired. If he was giving evidence directly to the defense and posting it online, that seems like a whole series of actual crimes.

Oh well, I think the one thing we can all agree on is that the prosecution did a shit job.

[John_A]

Oh well, I think the one thing we can all agree on is that the prosecution did a shit job.

You can't disprove a negative. You can try. In a court of law under rules developed on the fly by the judge you can even do it I suppose, but that is an imperfect example, you can prove that bumblebees can't fly as well. But the most obvious reason why the prosecutors looked like crap is because they were trying to disprove a negative, that being Zimmerman defended himself against an agressor. Everything else is just nonsense, this morning they were talking to one of the jurors and she basically said the same thing. In that instant, there was no intent on Zimmerman's part other than to stop someone from hurting him, and he had the right to do that.

Three cheers for Florida jury women!