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THE China Thread pt 7 (merged)

A forum for discussion of regional topics including oil depletion but also government, society, and the future.

Re: China's Economy (merged)

Unread postby bratticus » Wed 22 Feb 2012, 07:32:14

All downhill for the last two years.
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China Manufacturing Data Shows Risk of Deeper Slowdown: Economy
Bloomberg / February 22, 2012


China’s manufacturing may shrink for a fourth month in February, indicating the world’s second- biggest economy remains vulnerable to a deeper slowdown as Europe’s crisis caps exports and the housing market cools.

Fourth month? How about second year?
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Re: China's Economy (merged)

Unread postby Anvil » Thu 23 Feb 2012, 17:27:07

The Chinese have just leased the resource rich and strategical important Pakistan province of Gilgit Baltistan for 50 years.
This is an important step between both countries to insure the future of economic growth.
http://www.hindustantimes.com/India-new ... 15671.aspx
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Re: China double oil imports from Iran to 500k b/d

Unread postby kiwichick » Thu 23 Feb 2012, 20:13:17

china knew the game was up in 1979

when they introduced the so called one child policy


as the limits to growth predicted in 1972 stabilizing population is fundamental
to our possible survival
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Re: China's Economy (merged)

Unread postby babystrangeloop » Mon 05 Mar 2012, 05:21:04

China cuts growth target to 8-year low, to boost consumption
Zhou Xin and Kevin Yao / Reuters / March 5, 2012


Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao cut his nation's 2012 growth target to an eight-year low of 7.5 percent ...

... When they hand over power in late autumn, China could be headed for its slowest full-year of growth since Hu and Wen took office a decade ago. The economy ended 2011 with its slackest quarter of growth in 2-1/2-years at 8.9 percent ...

... Government figures show about 10.7 trillion yuan ($1.7 trillion) was owed by local governments at the end of 2010.

Now wait a minute. I remember listening to urgent news videos in 2008 about how a less-than-8% growth rate would be devastating to the Chinese economy and would spur on riots and such. Now I'm reading a Reuters piece about how they will be boosting consumption by growing only 7.5%.
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Re: China's move to energy efficient bulbs is a glimmer of h

Unread postby Rod_Cloutier » Sat 30 Jun 2012, 19:14:23

I saw a Chinese news broadcast about some rioting over land grabs,and about how their economy is slowing. It was interesting to watch how people live in a completely different culture. (The last bit of the show was on 'Duck herding' I thought it cute!)

http://english.ntdtv.com/ntdtv_en/asiab ... eo_section
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Re: China's aerospace investment benefits other areas: offic

Unread postby Tanada » Sun 01 Jul 2012, 05:52:18

I applaud the Peoples Republic of China for joining the narrow ranks of countries who safely put human beings into space and recovered them back upon the earth. I also find it just a little amusing that they credit space technology advancements for boosting multiple other fields of endeavor without acknowledging that much of the current world tech came out of the NASA and Baikonor program developments of computers and materials science.
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Re: China's aerospace investment benefits other areas: offic

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Sun 01 Jul 2012, 06:32:41

Or that they are running their own internal patent system based on stolen technology, as if the basis of the science was given from another planet, but now in China deserves IP protection. Hilarious.
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Re: China's aerospace investment benefits other areas: offic

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Mon 02 Jul 2012, 08:18:00

What happened to the OP? (Gasp)
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Re: China's aerospace investment benefits other areas: offic

Unread postby Tanada » Mon 02 Jul 2012, 14:24:43

SeaGypsy wrote:What happened to the OP? (Gasp)
They posted Spam and got themselves banned for their efforts. It makes posting on a newbies thread interesting when this happens.
I should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, design a building, write, balance accounts, build a wall, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, pitch manure, program a computer, cook, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
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Chinese Business Culture- My Crash Course

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Thu 13 Dec 2012, 16:12:07

As mentioned in another thread, I have just begun working for a Chinese company in Australia, Tanada suggested I write a thread about what I described as 'An amazing business culture'.

Here are some of the 'differences':

1/ Start time is precise, but tools down (breaks) are timed according to the needs of the day and so that everyone can stop work to 'eat together'. At lunch and end of day, the tasks of the time must be complete. If this means an extra hour to work, it's an extra hour for everyone, from the janitor to management.

(Adjustment required: task orientation rather than clock orientation.)

2/ Stock knowledge is in the people working's heads. Like when you see a Chinese Doctor, there are hundreds, sometimes thousands of unmarked draws containing the medicinals- you never see these draws labeled. Part of everyone's job is to learn the stock, so it becomes intuitive.

(Do not expect to find a 'stock map' in a Chinese warehouse. These are considered time wasting devices.)

3/ Women are equal to men in the management system. There is a definite sense of family structure, with the business owning couple as team leaders and everyone else as respected members of the team.

(I was interviewed and hired by a female manager and female secretary, with the clear authority to hire and fire without consultation of other managers. I was hired at the first interview, which lasted less than 10 minutes.)

4/ The done thing is to learn the languages of your customers. Everyone in the office speaks several languages.

(The place I am working imports and distributes 'dry goods'- 'non perishable' foods from all over Asia. The managers are all fluent in- Cantonese, English, Vietnamese. Some also speak Japanese and Hindi.)

5/ Each room in the business has an altar- Buddhas or statues of Confucius are offered fresh fruit and incense throughout the day.

(There is an atmosphere of calm among the staff, serene determination. Nobody throws hissy fits or swears. There is no soft porn in the bathrooms or changerooms or anywhere else.)

6/ The attitude to business is all about attracting and maintaining customers, rather than profit margins. The target is always to grow the business in terms of volume of sales over volume of profit per item sold. Often mark ups are only 10- 20% above wholesale cost.

(This orientation is really striking. Having worked for a pile of businesses over the years with a price oriented philosophy, rather than customer satisfaction- I can now see why Asian (especially Chinese) business has kept growing even in very tough times.)

I welcome comments and reflection on these points.
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Re: Chinese Business Culture- My Crash Course

Unread postby Tanada » Sun 16 Dec 2012, 15:03:12

Not to be funny but it sounds very much like the business model of the American entrepreneur of the 1850-1960 era. Small business people, not the big railroad interests and such.
I should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, design a building, write, balance accounts, build a wall, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, pitch manure, program a computer, cook, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
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Re: Chinese Business Culture- My Crash Course

Unread postby Subjectivist » Sun 16 Dec 2012, 21:46:50

Wish someone with that kind of a business ethic would open a shop in norther Ohio.
II Chronicles 7:14 if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land.
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US exports crude oil to China

Unread postby Graeme » Wed 17 Apr 2013, 17:27:41

US exports crude oil to China

The US has started exporting crude oil to China for the first time since 2005, which analysts say gives Washington additional leverage in Sino-US relations and has major implications for the global oil market.

In January, the US exported 9,000 barrels of crude per day to China, the highest in at least 13 years, according to the US Energy Information Administration (EIA).
"China will increase its oil imports in the coming years," said Adrian Loh, an analyst at Daiwa Capital Markets in Singapore.

"If US oil exports to China increase, the impact on Sino-US relations will be felt," said Li Xin, an analyst at Masterlink Securities in Shanghai.

"For China, the room for ramping up oil production is limited. China's reliance on oil will increase unless it can find different energy sources. With its own oil production rising, the US can cut down on oil imports," said Lawrence Lau, an analyst at Bank of China.

Later this year, US crude oil production will surpass its oil imports for the first time since February 1995, the EIA predicts. The average US energy use per person will drop from 312 million British thermal units (Btu) in 2011 to below 270 million Btu in 2034, a level not seen since 1963.

In December, China overtook the US as the world's biggest net importer of oil. US net oil imports fell to 5.98 million barrels per day that month, the EIA said. China's net oil imports, meanwhile, rose to 6.12 million barrels per day, according to China Customs.

"The biggest impact will be on the global energy market," said Li. As US dependence on oil imports decreases, the importance of the Middle East as an oil producer will diminish, Li predicted.

Loh said: "If the US is producing and exporting more oil, [the oil producers' cartel] Opec's ability to control oil prices will diminish. Everything else being equal, oil prices should stabilise at a lower level."


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Re: US exports crude oil to China

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Wed 17 Apr 2013, 19:43:36

A little more detail. The oil shipped from the US to China was not produced in the US. The U.S. is not allowed to publish specifics about particular shipments, but this crude oil was not listed as a domestic export, implying that the crude oil was foreign-origin crude oil that was imported into the United States and then exported from the United States to China. Exports of foreign-origin crude are imported into the United States but not comingled with U.S.-origin crude oil. These exports typically occur because the owner of the imported crude oil cannot process or resell it in the United States. The license allows the imported crude to be exported.

To export crude oil, a company must obtain a license from the Bureau of Industry and Security (BIS), which is part of the U.S. Department of Commerce, and which relies on the Code of Federal Regulations Title 15 Part 754.2. According to the regulations, "BIS will approve applications to export crude oil for the following kinds of transactions if BIS determines that the export is consistent with the specific requirements pertinent to that export:"

• From Alaska's Cook Inlet
• To Canada for consumption or use therein
• In connection with refining or exchange of Strategic Petroleum Reserve oil
• Of up to an average of 25,000 bbl/d of California heavy crude oil
• That are consistent with findings made by the president under an applicable statute
• Of foreign-origin crude oil where, based on written documentation satisfactory to BIS, the exporter can demonstrate that the oil is not of U.S. origin and has not been commingled with oil of U.S. origin

The vast majority of U.S. crude exports go to Canada. Most of the other exports of crude oil are exports of foreign-origin crude, imported into the United States but not comingled with U.S.-origin crude oil.
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Re: US exports crude oil to China

Unread postby Graeme » Wed 17 Apr 2013, 20:39:43

Thanks for the clarification. Don't you think that the oil could come from Alaska's Cook Inlet then? Do you think that oil prices will stabilize or lower on the world market?
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Re: US exports crude oil to China

Unread postby Tanada » Wed 17 Apr 2013, 20:54:53

So let us be perfectly clear. China imports 6 Million (6,000,000) bbl/oil/day. The USA shipped 9 Thousand (9,000) bbl/oil/day to China. IOW the USA supplied 0.0015% used by China.

I am gonna lose so much sleep over this I can hardly express it in words!
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Re: US exports crude oil to China

Unread postby Graeme » Wed 17 Apr 2013, 22:35:29

That's the first shipment. There's likely to be more in future.
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Re: US exports crude oil to China

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Thu 18 Apr 2013, 07:13:51

Shipping AL oil overseas isn't new. The law doesn't allow oil produced from fed lands to be sold overseas. But here's the tricky wording: North Slope oil was exported years ago to Japan but not sold to Japan. It was "swapped on paper". Japan buys X bbls of oil from a country that sells to US refiners. The Japanese swap that oil contract with the govt so it replaces the US oil it will receive. The prime motivation is to save the transport costs. It costs less to ship AL oil to Japan then most US refineries. So the net effect is that the US doesn't have less oil for our refineries. In the past this hasn't been anything close to a significant amount.

I'm not sure how that might change in the future. For instance folks speculate about some of that Canadian oil sand production owned by Chinese companies might be shipped thru the US and end up in China. I doubt that will happen per se. A possibility: the Chinese already have long term oil contracts to import oil from Venezuela and other countries that export to the US. So a relatively simple paper transaction: China swaps the title for their Canadian oil with a US refiner that gets title to some other country’s export that China has bought. Same potential savings on transport costs. And yep: oil has a title to it just like your automobile. So the Chinese Canadian production really isn’t landlocked. An even simpler approach: China sells its Canadian oil to a US refiner and buys someone else’s oil with the proceeds. But here’s one of the aspects of my MADOR (Mutual Assured Distribution Of Resources) concept: access to oil. China has been acquiring oil reserves in the ground and long term options on buying export oil for a long time. Consider Angola: it makes no difference if any refiner is willing to pay the highest price for some Angolan oil…they can’t buy what the Chinese won’t sell. There’s a rumor that China has a ROFR (right of first refusal) on a good bit of Brazilian Deep Water oil as part of their loaning them many $billions. With a RORF China will have to match the current market price but no other country could by that oil if China exercises that RORF.

We’re not there yet but one day as resources dwindle price may not be the only factor in determining how much oil a country can import. The Chinese govt has acquired rights to hundreds of $billions in future foreign oil production. The US govt has acquired $0.
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Re: US exports crude oil to China

Unread postby Graeme » Thu 18 Apr 2013, 22:51:09

R, That's an interesting discussion especially with regards to the Chinese ownership of Canadian oil (sorry, tar sands). The decision on the Keystone pipeline by the Obama administration may have a great bearing on whether the Chinese can access this oil at least through the US.

Why do you say that the US govt has acquired $0? Doesn't it have a strategic reserve of oil? Isn't the US (and China) still importing from KSA, Iraq and Kuwait? I noticed from EIA data that about a third comes from Canada!

It's not entirely clear to me why China is now deciding to buy "American" oil. Is it trying to influence the Keystone decision?
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Re: US exports crude oil to China

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Fri 19 Apr 2013, 07:25:29

Much of the SPR oil has been purchased by the govt from US oil fields. In fact much of it was royalty oil produced on US leases taken in kind. That oil belongs to the US govt. The Chinese oil resources I mentioned sit in other countries. This is oil the US would have had access to except for the actions of the Chinese govt. Obviously the Chinese don’t have access to our SPR oil. As far as I know the US govt doesn’t have preferential access to one bbl of foreign oil but we may have some under–the-table deals with some foreign govts. But that could always change in a heartbeat.

If I wasn’t clear I was trying to focus on access to future oil production…not what is currently being bought on the open market. The US is buying most of its foreign oil from Canada, Mexico and Vz and not as much from the ME. IMHO the decision on the Keystone p/l by President Obama has no bearing on the oil sands production the Chinese own. That oil, including whatever percentage the Chinese own, has been shipped to the US. The largest amount of oil ever exported from Canada to the US was in 2012…without that permit. The Canadian oil and refined products have been transported across the border via rail, truck and by 6 other existing pipelines. The rest of the p/l system in Canada and the US, except for that tiny section that would cross the border, has been expanded and continues to be so without the POTUS approving the permit. A lot of American autos have been running on oil the Chinese owned oil.

Are the Chinese delivering their oil to Midwest refiners as well as the Texas Gulf Coast? Yes…and have been from Day 1. Is any of that Chinese oil piped to Texas being shipped out from here to China? It could be done legally…remember the right of an oil owner to export any foreign produced oil out of the US. But I doubt it has been done. Much cheaper for a US refiner to buy oil contracts from, say Saudi Arabia, and swap them with the Chinese for their Canadian oil. Saves transport costs for both sides of the deal. There is a very large and complex global trading enterprise where a huge amount of oil is moved only on paper.

I’m missing the point about China trying to buy US oil. Or are you taking about China buying refined products.
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