[PrestonSturges]

Maybe...it seemed like they were the dominant species in every park, yard, and growing wild on the roadside in the form of large bushes with multiple trunks or medium trees. It was one of those species so ubiquitous that most people would ignore them entirely or just call them a "tree" since they were so common as to not even need a specific name.

Must be willow trees, they are very common. There's some 20 different species of willows in Finland, some of them growing in large bushes such as you described. Smaller bushy species bloom late in the winter before the snow has melted and before there's leaves in any plants. In Finland that's considered as a first sign of coming spring.

Not willows...at the time I thought they might be lilacs. It looked like they were going to get upright clusters of flowers, but memory may be failing me.

[dblk]

Bird cherry then?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bird_Cherry

Can I ask what were you doing in Finland, just a holiday trip? Did you see other places than the Helsinki area? How did you like Finland/Finnish people? Did you see many drunk people?

Sorry about all those questions, but perhaps you are aware that Finnish people are always interested in how foreign people perceive them.

[PrestonSturges]

That could be it.....

[PrestonSturges]

Bird cherry then?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bird_Cherry

Can I ask what were you doing in Finland, just a holiday trip? Did you see other places than the Helsinki area? How did you like Finland/Finnish people? Did you see many drunk people?

Sorry about all those questions, but perhaps you are aware that Finnish people are always interested in how foreign people perceive them.

It was business, so I stayed in the Ikea prison cell/hotel room for a week. I know some Finnish people. The women all look like Kirsten Dunst, and apparently there's none of the oxen-like Valkery women. Helsinki is a lovely town, the architecture is pleasant in a modest way, and the scenery is nice. We toured the fort and took a cruise of the harbor, which resembles Maine.

Everyone I met was friendly and smart and spoke English. I don't know the culture well enough to comment on its drawbacks.

[jmnemonic]

My name is Jon. Thought I'd register and say hi. I've been reading for a bit now, lurking, seeing if I'd fit in. Seeing the caliber of the posts (generally intelligent and civil) is what made me decide to register.

I'm pretty well-read on Peak Oil, Hubbert, Olduvai Theory, etc. But in my normal day-to-day life, there is no one I can really talk to about it, because I start getting odd looks. So many people are in such deep denial that it is depressing. I'm basically just keeping my head down now and trying to be pro-active in ways that might result in me (age 46) and my significant other (age 59) being able to live out our normal life-spans without having to resort to eating trash or other people.

It also occurred to me that if I had succeeded in my various attempts to get lots of people to recognize the approaching mega-problems, then that might start the inevitable panic. And I still need stuff, lots of stuff, so I don't want a panic anytime soon. (On the other hand, the sooner the panic/collapse, probably the better for our species...but not better for my household. Heh.)

Anyway, thanks for providing a civil place to discuss the scary topics of the day, and thanks for giving me a seat at the table.

[Pops]

Hey, Jon, welcome.

Hope you think as much of us after you know us better...

:^)

[FarQ3]

Hi I'm Jez, I'm Australian & I'm from WA. I'm a production specialist in the local oil & gas industry.

I believe that Australia will be among the first countries to suffer serious economic and social consequences due to peak oil. ~70% of our fuel is either imported or made from imported oil imported from mostly south-east Asia. I believe that when the crush hits, governments will enact essential services legislation forcing (then) nationalised oil companies to supply homeland oil demand. It is likely that war will be the result of this action as countries like China and the USA deploy force to enable producers to continue operation, transport oil from afar & to protect sealanes. This means terrible consequences for us here in Australia as we are a large land mass with most foodstuffs transported from remote parts of the country. We also have a huge coastal surveilance operation which will be compromised without the energy to run our naval illegal immigration deterents. Australia has large natural gas deposits and consecutive conservative governments did not encourage uptake of gas powered transport. As the vast majority of our natural gas is exported to Japan & China Australia does not have available storage facilities to supply the local market should a fast transition to from petroleum be required. The current government is not able to govern effectively due to senate numbers being marginal. Neither side believes that Peak Oil will occur anytime soon .... they more than likely don't even know what Peak Oil is!

Help!

[Daniel_Plainview]

Hi, Jez! Welcome!

Neither side believes that Peak Oil will occur anytime soon .... they more than likely don't even know what Peak Oil is!

Pathetic, isn't it?

[SeaGypsy]

Hi and welcome!
They know full well, but they choose to believe in Unicorn fixes and the election cycle:

The Federal Government's position on Peak Oil

24th February 2006

To : Kay Elson, Federal Member for Forde
From : Ian McFarlane - Federal Minister for Industry, Tourism and Resources

Dear Kay,
Thank you for your letter of 9 Nov 2005 to the Prime Minister on behalf of xxxxxxxxxxx, canvassing the issue of reduced oil production and Australia's preparedness for a decline in global oil supply.

Liquid fuels are important to the Australian economy, and the Government is pursuing policies to ensure that the economy adapts and benefits from changes in the World energy market. This is articulated in the policy white paper, "Securing Our Energy Future," which introduces initiatives to diversify and expand the nations's energy resource base.

To improve the development of domestic petroleum reserves, the Australian Government has introduced a range of measures, including acreage release and tax benefits designed to encourage additional exploration for oil and gas resources, especially in frontier areas. Australia's extensive reserves of natural gas are particularly important given the adaptability of this fuel in stationary energy markets and as a potential alternative to petroleum in transport application. Similarly our deposits of coal, both black and brown offer great potential for conversion to transport fuels such as diesel and hydrogen.

The Government is also committed to regularly monitoring and evaluating the energy situation; to improve the transparency and efficient operation of energy markets; and to promoting the development and application of a broad range of indigenous energy resources and advanced energy technologies.

One specific policy initiative outlined in the white paper is the biennial review of the national energy security outlook. The review provides the Government with an up to date picture with the resilience of the energy sector, industry's capacity to respond to temporary disruptions that would impact on energy security, and the adequacy of current policy arrangements, including those involving access to international supplies.

In addition, assessments of the longer term outlook for energy, including liquid fuels, are informed by analysis by the Australian Bureau of Agriculture and Resource Economics (ABARE), the Australian Government's Department of the Treasury, and global assessments by the International Energy Agency (IEA).

Through its membership of the IEA and the Asia Pacific Economic Cooperation Energy Working Group (APEC EWG), Australia is involved in collective action to respond to major oil shortages or disruptions and to develop policies to improve the functioning of global energy markets.

Support for renewable energy technologies is also helping to diversify the available energy mix. Following a recent report by the Bio-Fuels Taskforce, for example, the Government reaffirmed the 350 million litres (ML) biofuels target and agreed to facilitate a Biofuels Industry Action Plan. Aggregate projections in the Action Plan show that the ethanol industry expects to exceed to 350 ML target by 2010, underlining stakeholder optimism about the future. With hydrogen having the potential to play a role in Australia's long term energy supply, the Government is engaged both domestically and internationally in hydrogen related R & D programmes. Participation in collaborative arrangements such as the International Partnership on the Hydrogen Economy (IPHE) and the IEA Hydrogen Implementing Agreement enables Australia to have a say in determining the development and adoption of appropriate codes and standards for hydrogen.

The Government is also introducing measures to improve energy efficiency as a means of reducing our overall energy needs through initiatives aimed at lowering demand for oil in the transport sector, including a demand management programme designed to reduce reliance on cars and encourage people to make a more informed choice about other forms of transport.

In conclusion, I am confident that the Government has a broadly based strategy to improve the operation of our energy markets and to diversify our energy mix, so that Australia is well prepared to deal with the changing dynamics of global oil supply.

Yours sincerely,

Ian McFarlane

http://www.peakoil.org.au/mcfarlane.htm

We have a few Wozzies on here, I'm from the NT.
We also have a few industry insiders and experts on trade analysis.

How long you been lurking here? Where are you at with preps? Any activist stance?

[Ferretlover]

Welcome to PeakOil.com.

[FarQ3]

I've been reading articles & blogs on this site for a number of years. So in fact I've been hanging around here for quite a while but only just felt compelled enough to join the discussion recently.

I thought that our politicians would know what Peak Oil is until I watched Tony Abbott during an election Q&A session in Queensland. He was asked about Peak Oil and he had absolutley no idea, like most he relates it directly to available oil reserves instead of the capacity to produce oil.

http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/12/02/peak-oil/

http://australianconservative.com/2010/08/tony-abbott-at-the-brisbane-peoples-forum/

From the Queensland Q&A session:
"QUESTION:
Hello Mr Abbott and I’m a Commonwealth public servant, hopefully not one to be affected by the loss of 12,000 jobs you just mentioned, but back to my question. I know you’re not a believer human induced climate change, but could I test you on peak oil? Do you acknowledge that the world is facing a future of oil depletion and if so, how would you begin to prepare Australia for the major threat this poses to the way we live our lives?

TONY ABBOTT:
Ok, well, you know, the interesting thing about oil reserves is that they’re always being expanded. I mean, at any one time, people think we have say 20 or 30 years of oil reserves. 20 or 30 years later, people still think we have 20, 30, 40 or 50 years of oil reserves, as the case may be and the reason for that is because as the technology changes, more reserves become accessible, and as the price changes, reserves that weren’t really accessible become more accessible. So, look, I know about the concept of peak oil. I don’t claim to be the world’s greatest expert in it, but I’m sceptical as to its value as a tool for policy makers because at the right price, we’ve got a lot more reserves than we currently think. With better technology, we’ve got a lot more reserves than we currently think.

DAVID SPEERS:
So, are you saying, Tony Abbott, that oil is a limitless resource?

TONY ABBOTT:
I’m not saying that it’s limitless. But it’s not nearly as finite as we would think if we had looked at the kind of studies that were done a generation ago or even now."

I don't think that Julia Gillard is any better either. I actually feel that our government is part of an organised effort to mask the facts of Peak Oil and try to reduce fossil fuel use via the Climate Change agenda. Climate Change is seen by the majority as being credible but something we can work on together with the rest of the world to mitigate (i.e. do nothing as a stand alone nation). Peak Oil on the other hand could see panic as some nations nationalise local oil industry and pull their oil production from the international marketplace to ensure longevity of sovereign energy security ... thus leaving Australia with chronic pertroleum shortages.

We've become very good at finding gas here in Oz ... we don't seem to be finding any oil reserves of reasonable consequence

[sparky]

.
Welcome to the blog , I'm an instrument tech from Sydney
You'll find a fair spread of opinions around ,

[FarQ3]

Thanks Sparky, I've noticed that!

That Xenophobe is a funny one!

And why is it that there's so many comments posted here that exclude life outside of the USA?
Could it be that the USA is really the only country on Earth?

Like ... is Australia just some dreamed up Oprah Winfrey fantasyland?

"World English Dictionary
xenophobia (zen-uh-foh-bee-uh, zee-nuh)

— n
hatred or fear of foreigners or strangers or of their politics or culture

xeno'phobic
— adj "

I suppose that explains it then!

[SeaGypsy]

Abbot is a through and through pollie (snake oil salesman/ plastic fantastic) I enjoy your find on him nonetheless. He and Gillard are even closer in agenda to each other than the GOP/Dems are in the USA.
They all work primarily for the banks.

On your note about lack of input outside Australia; first there is more than you think, second the vast majority of members are American. I don't hold this against them (I was born there).

[FarQ3]

Thanks SeaGypsy,

Our pollies are a funny lot! Look at the ALP since they got in they have been stanewalled on virtually every policy objective. And Tony Abbott's main claim to fame is "Stop The Boats!" How pathetic is that! what with? gun 'em all down? send them on a taxpayer funded overseas holiday? really? Surely there's more important issues to base your entire campaing around than "Stop The Boats!" ... I suppose there's always "Stop The NBN!"

As for the Americans, they're mostly just like us it's just the Corno's seem to be conveniently forgetting the rest of the world to get their point across. Just saw a thread here stating that Tapis & Brent are obscure oil indexes, laughable really! Well you have to laugh don't ya!

[SeaGypsy]

I have rattled a few coastal security guys I know over the years with something along the lines of the following dialogue:

"You know how much a Chinese 150cc motorbike costs in Asia?"
"Wouldn't have a clue"
"Retail about $500, wholesale $350."
"Your point?"
"Did you know China also makes flight fabrics and parts for ultrlight aircraft?"
"Nope, do they make ultrlights?"
"Nope, they make it too easy to escape."
"So what has this got to do with Australia?"
"How hard do you think it would be for China to build an ultralight 2 seater for $1000?"
"Not too hard I guess..."
"And what if they made thousands and thousands of them?
"For what? A poor man's stealth airforce?"
"An invasion."
"We would blast them out of the sky!"
"What happens when it turns out the first few are unarmed? Will you still be able to shoot them out of the sky?
"I never thought of that."

I must admit I am not an open border advocate.
Aussies who are have no idea of just how many Asians would like to come to Australia.
Mandatory detention is an ugly deterrent for many, as is an unsure future status and a possible ticket home with all the attendant waste of precious funds.
Eventually your prediction about oil scarcity leading to border breakdown is inevitable, but in the meantime we have to get well into and probably past fuel rationing, something which is not going to go down very nicely in Australia (or a lot of other places).

[FarQ3]

Haha! excellent analogy and true enough! there are many Africans that would like to live in Australia as well! I'm not keen on the open border policy either but as soon as the crush occurs they'll be either coming in small wooden kraits, ultralight aircraft or 200,000t grey ships from all directions. We mightn't have much oil but we do have gas, coal & uranium

[FarQ3]

Thanks for the welcome, is good to be aboard!

[Sixstrings]

And why is it that there's so many comments posted here that exclude life outside of the USA?
Could it be that the USA is really the only country on Earth?

My assumption is just that most of the active posters happen to be American, that's all. There are sub-forums for each region of the world.. if you guys want to talk about national-interest things there's nothing stopping you. Overall, there are a fair number of active Aus and Kiwi posters. Sometimes they bring up national politics, while I certainly can't join that discussion I actually find it interesting reading.

I can see how all the US political talk must be boooooring for you guys. But on the other hand conervatism, liberalism, socialism, that's relevant all through the West. We also talk a lot of geopolitics.. China should be as interesting to you (even more so) as it is to me.

Admittedly, there aren't enough energy and peak oil posts.. too many hardcore oil guys are gone from the forum, so you joining is a step in the right direction.

Anyhow welcome! And Aussie's are my fav people btw. I've yet to meet an Aussie I don't like.

(I'm in Florida, USA by the way)

EDIT: and if you look back through old posts, there are YEARS of energy discussions on this forum covering every possible nuance. That could be an issue too, that peak oil is a bit talked out at the moment. As new developments come along it gets discussed.

[Wallace Hartley]

Hello all from South Africa!

I have been watching the PeakOil scenario unfold since late 2004, have written a bit about it, tried to convince many, many people - some successfully, most less so - and have generally had pretty much the same experiences as most of you.

I currently work as a wage slave for the local representation of the Dana Corporation, and recently e-mailed a bit of a PeakOil primer and a few links (this site inc) to our National Financial guy - he who has to make the financial forecasts - I hope he gets something out of it.

My previous employers - long distance road transporters - got the whole spiel from me in the form of presentations etc, and decided that it didn't really matter as they would always be around anyway. Maybe; we do live in a country that has basically zero rail infrastructure left for the movement of freight, but an interesting attitude anyway.

I am a father to three sons - 21, 14 and 7 years of age - and I have to admit that I do get very happy when I hear the comments of the two older ones that show they have a pretty solid understanding of the bulls%&t dished out by governments, the conspirational undercurrents that flow behind just about everything the media has to serve up, and the closeness of the relationships between bigbiz and the gov.

So there we have it! Am I the first South African here?

I am also a radio amateur - ZR6XZ - and a large part of the reasoning behind getting my ham licence was to be able to communicate after the crash. I write, perform a bit on bass (though not so much these days) and should qualify as a Hypnotherapist in August this year!

That's it!