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Peakoil.com Under Sunday Troll Bombardment

General discussions of the systemic, societal and civilisational effects of depletion.

Re: Peakoil.com Under Sunday Troll Bombardment

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 19 Sep 2016, 12:29:40

evilgenius wrote:If you put policies that ban activity before it happens in place you will also stop those activities which are legitimate and look like what the filter is directed to stop. You pull up the wheat with the tares, so to speak. If something happens in the world that causes people to look up peak oil as a search term and you've done that, all you will have succeeded in doing would be to make the site irrelevant to those looking for further understanding of the story through the use of message boards. it is possible to take some measures, like waiting periods for certain activities, but don't go wholesale please. It would be like what many unions did in response to the first foreign competition wobble brought about by Japanese competition, to take action that guaranteed older workers some protection, but threw the younger ones under the bus.


Evil genius is 100% right.

There are so few posters here now, a few more wouldn't hurt. Putting up barriers to new posters is the wrong way to go.
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Re: Peakoil.com Under Sunday Troll Bombardment

Unread postby shortonoil » Mon 19 Sep 2016, 14:47:48

<i>"Wondering where Tanada and the site's admins are. Haven't seen any feedback from them. Maybe they've been bot-napped"</i>

Bet they are trying to figure out how the little diggy-buggers got in to begin with. Obviously there is a back door that they didn't know was there. If they don't find it we are all likely to to succumb to bot-titus of the retina in short order. That would not be a good thing to happen to the site.
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Re: Peakoil.com Under Sunday Troll Bombardment

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 19 Sep 2016, 14:55:48

I just looked at the News side of the site. There are are almost no posts there now.

Did all the the new posters on the Bakken thread in news site yesterday use some kind of bug or glitch to register, or did they just register through the normal process so they could comment on the Bakken article?

Maybe they were just a bunch of unemployed Bakken oil workers down at the unemployment office using their spare time to kvetch about the negative article on the Bakken. Someone higher up in this thread here said the Bakken article also attracted huge traffic at zero hedge where it was originally posted. Maybe it was that subject and that specific article that attracted all the comments, rather it being an attack on peak oil.com. After all, zerohedge saw the same kind of huge jump in reader comments with the exact same article.

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Re: Peakoil.com Under Sunday Troll Bombardment

Unread postby shortonoil » Mon 19 Sep 2016, 16:33:01

Sure, 29 ex Bakken rough necks all showed up on same day to make 300 posts with the same grammatical structure, and no spelling errors.

Sure I'll buy that. Now about that bridge?
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Re: Peakoil.com Under Sunday Troll Bombardment

Unread postby vox_mundi » Mon 19 Sep 2016, 16:38:45

Just an observation ...

Periodically when I compose a post I'm presented with this screen rather than the normal screen (without the Flash button) ...

Image

I'm pretty sure that Flash button doesn't belong there.

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Re: Peakoil.com Under Sunday Troll Bombardment

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 19 Sep 2016, 16:40:57

shortonoil wrote:Sure, 29 ex Bakken rough necks all showed up on same day to make 300 posts with the same grammatical structure, and no spelling errors.

Sure I'll buy that. Now about that bridge?


First of all, lets not get all hysterical about this and lose sight of the facts here--there were't 300 posts by the new posters. There are currently only about 317 posts in that thread and many of them are by old regular posters. The regular posters and the new posters both made a lot of posts in that thread. Lets say there were maybe roughly 200 posts by new posters..

Second--- I don't see what is such a big deal about new posters signing in and making posts. That topic attracted a huge amount of posts when it posted at zero hedge and it attracted a surprisingly number of posts when reprinted here. Whats the big deal?

And finally the supposed troll bombardment has stopped today. That suggests it was just a lot of people posting about the anti-Bakken story rather then some kind of generalized attack on peak oil.com

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Re: Peakoil.com Under Sunday Troll Bombardment

Unread postby GHung » Mon 19 Sep 2016, 18:19:24

Plant said; "That suggests it was just a lot of people posting about the anti-Bakken story rather then some kind of generalized attack on peak oil.com"...

....and not ONE replied to a response from other posters. Not ONE replied to a challenge to their claims. I know you're a little slow on the uptake sometimes, Planty,,, but dayum.

Also, some of the new accounts have linkable account names (colored). Click on those names and you either get bullshit links (like yahoo or some sales site), or invalid URLs. Further, they come in clusters.
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Re: Peakoil.com Under Sunday Troll Bombardment

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 19 Sep 2016, 19:52:22

GHung wrote:....and not ONE replied to a response from other posters. Not ONE replied to a challenge to their claims. ....Also, some of the new accounts have linkable account names (colored). Click on those names and you either get bullshit links (like yahoo or some sales site), or invalid URLs. Further, they come in clusters.


The coming in clusters part sounds bad.

I can see why these new posters upset you so much---Thank you for bringing this to everyone's attention. I wish you luck in sorting this all out.

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Re: Peakoil.com Under Sunday Troll Bombardment

Unread postby shortonoil » Mon 19 Sep 2016, 20:14:29

"Further, they come in clusters."

Further, they almost all appeared in that one article by Steve on the Bakken. I went through several other articles, and only found a couple that might have been from the same source. It was a very sophisticated attack; drown out anyone else with an opinion or observation.

What we don't know was it directed at that article, or PO News in general? Let's hope it was the article as PO News is about the best open source about petroleum on the net. A lot of the rest of them read like canned "Spanky and the Gang" shows. They are really nothing more than well choreographed song and dance routines.
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Re: Peakoil.com Under Sunday Troll Bombardment

Unread postby shortonoil » Mon 19 Sep 2016, 20:21:14

"The coming in clusters part sounds bad."

New to the planet?
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Re: Peakoil.com Under Sunday Troll Bombardment

Unread postby AdamB » Mon 19 Sep 2016, 21:42:24

pstarr wrote:GHung how did you manage to trace the problem? I managed to get through. It's called gumption. (or at least it used to be). The site admins could always ban our own resident trolls? It might help a smidge lol


Advocating for your own banishment? Why, how gracious of you!! Why not just stop posting? There must be one of God's creatures around you can stand on top off, flashing V for victory signs, or a forest that needs clear cut while you watch.
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Re: Peakoil.com Under Sunday Troll Bombardment

Unread postby GHung » Mon 19 Sep 2016, 22:58:16

Not biting, Adam.
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Re: Peakoil.com Under Sunday Troll Bombardment

Unread postby evilgenius » Tue 20 Sep 2016, 11:36:05

How are we harmed? That's the question we have to ask. There are a number of ways to view an attack by touters or propagandists. One way is to ignore single issue attacks that are limited in duration, as long as the content is germane. If you take this view, then all but 'My uncle made $2,700 in a single day doing..." is acceptable. Obviously, we don't want that kind of spam. What about content scams, however. Aren't they really bad for us in the long run? I suppose the answer is that depends upon whether there was enough non-aligned content posted to counter the propaganda. You can never know if that will be the case, especially if the barrage of posts was conducted in connection with some kind of stock touting scam where the damage is done before enough 'real' people can add their two cents worth. But can we simply say that people can't post when they first come here? I think we can, if we assume that the overall issues are why they come. I think we can assume that the overall issues are important enough to a legitimate person who finds this site such that, even with a slight delay, they will come back. We can put a one day delay on new account's posting privileges. Maybe that's already there, I don't know. It's been a long time since I was new here.

The other side of the issue is whether we want too much new blood. We could become calcified. When that happens to older communities in the physical world sometimes they find themselves overrun by newcomers. The number of newcomers doesn't even have to be all that large for this to happen either. If the community has lost its ability to converse dynamically, then the new blood will always annoy it, no matter how small it may be as a percentage compared to the old. The tide doesn't even have to be that great because, as always, it's the marginal propensity for change that matters most. Philosophical changes often happen on the margins. So, if you are old on this site, and you view this as a place where this or that point of view, maybe a right or left slant, ought to reign unchallenged the future could look bleak. To put it simply, things like new forum creation and strict subject control can be implemented by the controlling order to prevent or stymie new forms of expression regarding peak oil, or other topics that will rise to importance as the world goes forward under the paradigm. Do we really want to do that? Maybe some limited version would work to contain foreseeable malfeasance, but should we try to control the flow of dialog any further than that?
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Re: Peakoil.com Under Sunday Troll Bombardment

Unread postby Plantagenet » Tue 20 Sep 2016, 12:18:48

Oh noooooo......people are making posts! Stop them from posting! Now they are posting in clusters! Oh noooooooo!

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oooooooooh noooooooooooooo! Stop them stop them! Don't let them join the site and post! Oh nooooooo!
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Re: Peakoil.com Under Sunday Troll Bombardment

Unread postby GHung » Tue 20 Sep 2016, 14:02:31

evilgenius asks; "but should we try to control the flow of dialog any further than that?"

This wasn't dialogue. None of these new "commentators" responded to any queries or challenges. No discussions at all; just a barrage of opinionated blather without citations or links. Indeed, this was clearly designed to stifle dialogue and discussion to the point that it created a partial denial-of-service.

"Oh noooooo......people are making posts!"

You still think this was "people", Plant? Really?
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Re: Peakoil.com Under Sunday Troll Bombardment

Unread postby Plantagenet » Tue 20 Sep 2016, 15:07:48

GHung wrote: this was clearly designed to stifle dialogue and discussion to the point that it created a partial denial-of-service. ?


Who was denied service?

As far I can see all that happened is the Bakken news story saying production there has peaked got a lot of comments. If you read the comments from the new posters you are objecting to they mostly say that if the price of oil goes up then the amount of drilling in the Bakken will go up again. Several of the new posters self-identify in their posts as Bakken oilfield workers or people who live in North Dakota. IMHO we could use more oilfield workers and people in the oil biz---Rockman is in the oil biz and he is one of our best posters.

The contention that oil drilling in the Bakken will increase if the price of oil increases is a completely reasonable thing to say. There is no reason to get so upset about it.

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Re: Peakoil.com Under Sunday Troll Bombardment

Unread postby GHung » Tue 20 Sep 2016, 17:51:29

I had a lot of trouble connecting on Sunday; often got a "max_user_exceeded" message or sql_database_error. Others reported errors of this type. Don't recall seeing you around.

Suffice it to say that I think you are just wrong on this, and as usual, being typically obtuse. You've yet to answer the issue that NONE of these new 'people' responded to any challenges. Not one of dozens of new accounts. Only ONE, who was likely the only real person, posted any links or citations to support their claims.

Again, as usual, you avoid addressing anything that counters your generally weak arguments. Other regulars, who are far more computer-savy than you are, declared this as a sophisticated bot attack early on. I initially said it probably wasn't until patterns emerged.

Answer this: Why did this not occur at either of the other sites where this article was previously posted as early as Sept. 12 (despite your erroneous claim, above)?

You said; "The contention that oil drilling in the Bakken will increase if the price of oil increases is a completely reasonable thing to say. There is no reason to get so upset about it."

Upset? I generally don't let anything get me "upset". Just making up shit again?
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Re: Peakoil.com Under Sunday Troll Bombardment

Unread postby Plantagenet » Tue 20 Sep 2016, 19:13:29

GHung wrote:I had a lot of trouble connecting on Sunday; often got a "max_user_exceeded" message


There were a lot of people trying to post that day about that article on the Bakken peaking. The comments on that article filled up six pages in the news section. When there a lot of people trying to access the site simultaneously you may get a "max_user_exceeded" message

GHung wrote: Other regulars.... declared this as a sophisticated bot attack early on. I initially said it probably wasn't until patterns emerged.


Since when is a lot of posts on a topic a "sophisticated attack?' A lot of posts just means a lot of people posted on the site.

GHung wrote: shit ...


Your potty mouth is overflowing. Please flush.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Look. No one has been "denied service" by the site. Your ability to post is operating just fine. SO is everyone elses. There is no problem. There is no bot attack. Relax. Take a deep breath. Everything is A-OK.

The site has been running beautifully since the mods did the upgrade. It ran beautifully on sunday. When there were a lot of posters simultaneously trying to post, it told you so in clear language----thats pretty darn good.

Look---the site is still running beautifully today. Everything is OK. Hallelujah. We are saved from the imaginary bots!

Image
Attack of the imaginary bot! Run for your lives! AAAAaaaaghhhh! Its a denial of service!!!!

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