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On the fast track to doom

Re: On the fast track to doom

Unread postby GASMON » Tue 12 Jun 2018, 02:35:46

Ibon wrote:The Chinese are going to extract resources to build their economic juggernaut but keep reserves and refuges intact for the wealthy to retreat to.


In your dreams Ibon. They will consume everything, then move on. Look what they have / are doing to their own (once beautiful) country. hardly any clean drinking water left, contaminated food, farmland etc.

Quite simply, the Chinese don't give a F***.

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Re: On the fast track to doom

Unread postby Ibon » Tue 12 Jun 2018, 07:54:06

GASMON wrote:
Ibon wrote:The Chinese are going to extract resources to build their economic juggernaut but keep reserves and refuges intact for the wealthy to retreat to.


In your dreams Ibon. They will consume everything, then move on. Look what they have / are doing to their own (once beautiful) country. hardly any clean drinking water left, contaminated food, farmland etc.

Quite simply, the Chinese don't give a F***.

Gas


We have to face how resilient the global juggernaut is. We recently hosted a senior executive of Hauwei and his familly. Lovely young Chinese cosmopolitan family. Not at all the stereotype Chinese locust meme that you allude to. This is the generation that follows affluence looking for serenity and looking for holiday in a pristine setting. Remember Japan in the 80's? Everyone thought they were this rapacious force of locusts overtaking the planet with their economic might. And today the Japanese are depopulating and the young generation hardly share their parents ambitious outlook.

If this recent North Korea summit leads to a major change well here we come a few million refrigerators, TV sets and massive amounts of concrete infrastructure projects will follow in North Korea.

We must recognize that this global juggernaut of humanity is resilient and will continue to be so. The planet's natural resources will be plundered at the same time small pockets will be preserved. Those small pockets held as national parks and conservation areas will increase dramatically in value as unprotected areas get raped.

One day our reserve here in Panama with its fresh water and forests will be a haven for the wealthy to come and enjoy. There will be more poor around the world, more destabilizing environmental consequences but make no mistake this juggernaut will not stop.

Kudzu Ape is formidable and Thomas Malthus continues to be wrong and The Overshoot Predator continues to be deep in hibernation.
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Re: On the fast track to doom

Unread postby Ibon » Tue 12 Jun 2018, 07:57:39

This is a great 2 minute video of 20 years of our planet breathing with the seasons.

https://www.space.com/40855-changing-ea ... tification

Ii don't mean anything by posting this except to put a little living green into the minds of those so convinced that our enture planet will be turned to concrete and ravaged by kudzu ape locusts.

I find myself slowly growing tired of the dreary apocalyptic orientation regarding our biosphere. At this moment I see nothing in the near or mid term horizon changing our trajectory.
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Re: On the fast track to doom

Unread postby Newfie » Tue 12 Jun 2018, 11:37:16

I find myself slowly growing tired of the dreary apocalyptic orientation regarding our biosphere. At this moment I see nothing in the near or mid term horizon changing our trajectory.


Ibon,

I find these statements contradictory. Not trying to argue, I understand the ennui you express. I hope you are right, but fear you are wrong. Neither of us will ever know. Such is life.
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Re: On the fast track to doom

Unread postby Ibon » Tue 12 Jun 2018, 12:36:51

Newfie wrote:
I find myself slowly growing tired of the dreary apocalyptic orientation regarding our biosphere. At this moment I see nothing in the near or mid term horizon changing our trajectory.


Ibon,

I find these statements contradictory. Not trying to argue, I understand the ennui you express. I hope you are right, but fear you are wrong. Neither of us will ever know. Such is life.


Compared to what I have been posting the past 10 years quite contradictory! I am all over the map...... either a sign of being deranged or the wisdom that we haven't a clue.
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Re: On the fast track to doom

Unread postby ralfy » Tue 12 Jun 2018, 19:26:32

GASMON wrote:
In your dreams Ibon. They will consume everything, then move on. Look what they have / are doing to their own (once beautiful) country. hardly any clean drinking water left, contaminated food, farmland etc.

Quite simply, the Chinese don't give a F***.

Gas


No one does, including those who live in "beautiful" countries. That's because "beauty" was made possible by outsourcing manufacturing and services, which in turn required cheap labor and circumventing expensive measures such as environmental protection in "non-beautiful" countries. Meanwhile, the same "beautiful" countries focused on debt-driven consumer spending, with growing numbers from "non-beautiful" countries following suit, as profits from increased production can only be made through increased sales.

That's why China is a major trading partner of many OECD countries, and the rest of BRICS and dozens of emerging markets are following suit.
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Re: On the fast track to doom

Unread postby ralfy » Tue 12 Jun 2018, 19:34:35

Ibon wrote:
We have to face how resilient the global juggernaut is. We recently hosted a senior executive of Hauwei and his familly. Lovely young Chinese cosmopolitan family. Not at all the stereotype Chinese locust meme that you allude to. This is the generation that follows affluence looking for serenity and looking for holiday in a pristine setting. Remember Japan in the 80's? Everyone thought they were this rapacious force of locusts overtaking the planet with their economic might. And today the Japanese are depopulating and the young generation hardly share their parents ambitious outlook.

If this recent North Korea summit leads to a major change well here we come a few million refrigerators, TV sets and massive amounts of concrete infrastructure projects will follow in North Korea.

We must recognize that this global juggernaut of humanity is resilient and will continue to be so. The planet's natural resources will be plundered at the same time small pockets will be preserved. Those small pockets held as national parks and conservation areas will increase dramatically in value as unprotected areas get raped.

One day our reserve here in Panama with its fresh water and forests will be a haven for the wealthy to come and enjoy. There will be more poor around the world, more destabilizing environmental consequences but make no mistake this juggernaut will not stop.

Kudzu Ape is formidable and Thomas Malthus continues to be wrong and The Overshoot Predator continues to be deep in hibernation.


I think senior executives who can afford to travel to exotic locations make up only a fraction of the world's population, where most earn less than $10 a day.

The goal of most is to earn more, and then use that to buy smart phones and many other things. The rich need them to do that so that they can have the money to travel to exotic locations.

Finally, the mainstream assumes that this "juggernaut" won't stop. The catch is that smart phones and many other manufactured goods require oil and material resources that are limited. So unless additional earths can be found (or, ironically, more exotic locations plundered), then that "juggernaut" will eventually grind to a halt.
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Re: On the fast track to doom

Unread postby Ibon » Wed 13 Jun 2018, 07:24:29

ralfy wrote:
I think senior executives who can afford to travel to exotic locations make up only a fraction of the world's population, where most earn less than $10 a day.


Most folks really cannot grasp the numbers. Let's say 5% of the chinese population are wealthy enough to do leisure travel. Doesn't sound like much does it?

Well that's 75 million people!
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Re: On the fast track to doom

Unread postby ralfy » Thu 14 Jun 2018, 10:01:33

Ibon wrote:Most folks really cannot grasp the numbers. Let's say 5% of the chinese population are wealthy enough to do leisure travel. Doesn't sound like much does it?

Well that's 75 million people!


Don't stop there. You also have to assume that the same 5 pct can continue traveling if more from the 95 pct can do similar. That's because higher pay, promotions, bonuses, etc., needed to travel to more places can only take place if everyone else buys more.

And where will the "global juggernaut" find the additional earths to ensure that?
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Re: On the fast track to doom

Unread postby onlooker » Thu 14 Jun 2018, 16:23:12

"And where will the "global juggernaut" find the additional earths to ensure that?" Interesting interchange. Predicting the future is always a tricky endeavor. But one thing is undeniable our impacts as a species are becoming ever more pronounced.
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Re: On the fast track to doom

Unread postby onlooker » Thu 14 Jun 2018, 16:44:44

I thought I would include this as it captures the inner struggle of finding our way in these uncertain times:
"by Phil Rockstroh
·
To paraphrase Rainer Maria Rilke: All human beings have a letter written inside their heart and if you don't live the life your heart yearns to live, you won't be allowed to read this letter before you die ... Thus, one might infer: There exist, across the land, dead-letter offices, vast and cavernous, where our mail awaits, unopened and unread.
Thus one of the prevailing miseries of our era is: The denizens of the late capitalist/consumer paradigm have agendas -- as opposed to lives.
We must begin to grasp the unsettling knowledge that the things we, as a people, inflict upon the world -- we will inflict upon ourselves. It is imperative that we start to ask this question: When so many external and internal forces work to thwart, degrade, and destroy our essential selves -- hence the world -- what agency can help to restore us?
Therefore, I'm calling you out -- the hidden side of our collective character -- right here, right now. Show us who you are: reveal to us your blank face, in all its banal symmetry and finally, and at long last -- give us an accounting of yourself.
I'm not naive. I realize you feel you're under no obligation to do so. You feel no more need to explain your actions than does Death itself.
Although you have many faces, deep down, we know who you are: You're a clean-shaven lobbyist, a sharp-elbow careerist, a public relations expert, a land-decimating real estate developer, a rent-inflating landlord, a cunning advertising executive, a weapons designing technocrat, a pentagon planner -- you're the jerk-rocket driving the SUV who is perpetually tailing my ass in traffic, you're my blank-faced, next-door neighbor, lacquering his hybrid lawn in insoluble pesticides. -- In short, you're all the quotidian and respectable -- therefore -- highly deceptive faces of Death. You are the bland, murder's countenance of empire.
How do I reach you -- by what means can I beseech you to cease the madness?
You name the place where I can confront you: On a thronging sidewalk on Fifth Avenue, during evening rush, as we're brushed and buffeted by the squalid grace of crowds. Perhaps, you might take the barstool next to mine and speak too loudly in my ear, jabbing my chest with your bony index finger to punctuate the pointless palaver of your self-justifying lies. How about: Let's take a cross-country drive, you and I, and see the fever dream of our sick nation unfurl before us through the dusty windshield of a grasshopper green, 1975 AMC Gremlin ... so that we might have time to talk this all through.
Because, I want you to realized this: There are hidden reservoirs of hope within us: reservoirs as boundless as the reach of your ruthlessness. These waters are as deep and potent as you are, at present, shallow and shameless. Yet, they're inaccessible to you -- as long as you insist your drink of choice will continue to be oil and blood, mixed with the runoff of melting Arctic glaciers.
What you do not know is this: From these inner reservoirs emerge rivers of renewal that run between all of those who turn away from the dry, dead landscape of your lies.
Streams of inspiration and renewal silently flow between those who have glimpsed this: That each generation must struggle against the soulless seekers of absolute power, that each era is a wasteland, that every person learns life is unfair, yet the waters of imagination remain -- thus one's tongue need not wither to cynical dust.
Empires rise and fall, but imagination remains, flowing through time and place, bearing all things to the sea and back again, perpetually returning, bringing new life to the dry, dead land, slaking our thirst, cleansing our wounds, delivering to us the strength to make and remake the world anew, and, at day's end, lulling us to restful sleep to the timeless cadences of its ceaseless currents."
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Re: On the fast track to doom

Unread postby ralfy » Fri 15 Jun 2018, 00:21:43

I suppose one way of looking at this is that in order for telecomm executives and their families to travel more, then they have to earn more. In order to earn more, they have to manufacture and sell more telecomm equipment and electronic devices. That means more resources will be needed to manufacture more products, and more consumers will have to earn more in order to buy them. Some of those places where more natural resources may be obtained to manufacture more goods to be sold as part of earnings are the same exotic places which may be visited using those earnings. And the effects of pollution caused by the manufacture and use of products ultimately have an effect on the same places.
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Re: On the fast track to doom

Unread postby onlooker » Fri 15 Jun 2018, 00:51:50

Simply put too many people alive and too many people living as hyper consumers/polluters within the modern industrial complex
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Re: On the fast track to doom

Unread postby Newfie » Sat 16 Jun 2018, 17:58:37

A view on China’s increasing naval power and strategy.

http://gcaptain.com/top-us-naval-analys ... ith-china/
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Re: On the fast track to doom

Unread postby onlooker » Mon 23 Jul 2018, 08:16:07

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... are_btn_fb
Earth's resources consumed in ever greater destructive volumes
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Re: On the fast track to doom

Unread postby onlooker » Mon 23 Jul 2018, 08:34:53

https://gritpost.com/humans-extinct-climate-change/
Top Climate Scientist: Humans Will Go Extinct if We Don’t Fix Climate Change by 2023
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Re: On the fast track to doom

Unread postby GHung » Mon 23 Jul 2018, 08:37:25

With leaders like this, we may not have to worry much about ongoing resource depletion.

To Iranian President Rouhani: NEVER, EVER THREATEN THE UNITED STATES AGAIN OR YOU WILL SUFFER CONSEQUENCES THE LIKES OF WHICH FEW THROUGHOUT HISTORY HAVE EVER SUFFERED BEFORE. WE ARE NO LONGER A COUNTRY THAT WILL STAND FOR YOUR DEMENTED WORDS OF VIOLENCE & DEATH. BE CAUTIOUS! Trump tweet, 7-22-18
Blessed are the Meek, for they shall inherit nothing but their Souls. - Anonymous Ghung Person
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Re: On the fast track to doom

Unread postby Cog » Mon 23 Jul 2018, 10:15:00

Almost the exact same phraseology he used on North Korea. We didn't go to war with them either. In fact, there has been no nuclear or long range missile tests from North Korea for eight months.
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Re: On the fast track to doom

Unread postby JuanP » Mon 23 Jul 2018, 10:27:12

Trump is hard to believe. I admit I dislike Hillary even more, but I don't think someone like Trump should be in such a powerful position. His governing by reflexive tweeting is completely infantile. I really like Tulsi Gabbard and I wish she was the US President. It seems every US President is worse than the one before, so I am not optimistic about the next one, but, could we fare any worse? Of course, I am not singling the USA, this deteriorating trend is global and almost universal. I respect Putin and Xi; I think they are good presidents.

I know that many people, particularly in the USA and the West, are very strong believers in Democracy, but I no longer believe in it. How can I believe in a political system that puts people like Reagan, the Bushes, Clinton, Obama, and Trump in the White house? And they are not alone, the world is full of horrible, democratically elected, political leaders. Humanity needs new, better political systems.
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Re: On the fast track to doom

Unread postby dohboi » Mon 23 Jul 2018, 10:28:41

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... ve-volumes

Earth Overshoot Day falls on 1 August this year - marking the point at which consumption exceeds the capacity of nature to regenerate


The day of reckoning is moving nearer, according to Mathis Wackernagel, chief executive and co-founder of Global Footprint Network.

“Our current economies are running a Ponzi scheme with our planet,” he said. “We are borrowing the Earth’s future resources to operate our economies in the present. Like any Ponzi scheme, this works for some time. But as nations, companies, or households dig themselves deeper and deeper into debt, they eventually fall apart.”

....the overall trend is of costs increasingly being paid by planetary support systems.

Separate scientific studies over the past year has revealed a third of land is now acutely degraded, while tropical forests have become a source rather than a sink of carbon. Scientists have also raised the alarm about increasingly erratic weather, particularly in the Arctic, and worrying declines in populations of bees and other insect pollinators, which are essential for crops.



"You can deny environmental calamity – until you check the facts"
George Monbiot
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