[americandream]

So when they ran a collectivised society, that was not good enough. Now they are free to earn what they will as is the case in the West, that is still not good enough.

The point is, they are not earning as is the case in the west. The western oil cos are all declining, while Pu and all, all, all are doing just fine. They rigged the tax system and threw in the devaluation in order to, putting it plainly, rob the population one another time. As has always been the case in Russia (and many other countries).

Rosneft is actually a state-owned company. Or "state"-owned, whichever is suitable.

OK. Two things.

1 The markets cannot be rigged. Thats nonsense.

2 However, you can rig direct drawdowns which do not transit the exchanges. If thats what you are pointing at, then lets not forget that that is what drives the ME debacle. Misappropriated direct drawdowns

This is the nature of the system. The Soviets tried valiantly to eliminate this tendency with a new social order and did a reasonably good job...there werent the excesses back then that we have today...granted they werent Mother Theresa but then again she was a charlatan.

Just banging on about Russia devoid of context does not help.

[ROCKMAN]

Couldn't find an appreciate thread...hope this isn't redundant. But winter is finally approaching so NG supplies to the EU could become a hot topic again. Especially if the leverage over transshipments again becomes another reason for hostilities between Moscow and the Ukraine:

"Malaysia's Wah Seong Corp has signed a $674 million contract with Nord Stream 2. The company will provide concrete weight coating and store more than 20,000 pipes measuring a total of 1,500 miles for the project, which is scheduled to be completed in the third quarter of 2019. The Nord Stream 2 pipeline, consists of 2 parallel 48 inch lines, each roughly 745 miles long, will deliver gas from south west of St Petersburg in Russia to the German coast near Greifswald."

The total capacity of two strings of Nord Stream 2 is 1.9 TRILLION cubic feet of gas per year. Total cost: $11 BILLION. The aggregated capacity of Nord Stream and Nord Stream 2 is therefore 3.9 TRILLION cubic feet of gas per year. A somewhat controversial issue since its primary purpose is to avoid hauling NG through the Ukraine. The concern for the Ukraine is that should much less NG being shipped thru the country Russia could exert significant enfluence over them without severely hurting sales to the EU. How:

EIA estimates that 16% (3.0 Tcf) of the total natural gas consumed in Europe passed through Ukraine's pipeline network, based on data reported by Gazprom and Eastern Bloc Energy. IOW the Nord Sream 2 capacity will be able to supply 2/3 of the current NG transit thru the Ukraine. And let's not forget the Russian aspirations to ship NG southwards around the Ukraine to Turkey.

[dissident]

And Banderastan has no special rights to blackmail Russian over gas transit. If the EU is so worried about the neonazi regime in Kiev then it really should just shut the f*ck up and shop elsewhere. What a collection of retarded drama queens.

[ROCKMAN]

Mucho thanks for redirecting my post.

[ROCKMAN]

More potential for the Ukraine to be cut out of the process. It might not happen by 2019 but Russia will continue efforts to avoid the Ukraine when it comes to selling NG. Just hit the wires:

Russian energy giant Gazprom has tabled a new option to revive the South Stream pipeline, local media report. Alternative routes are being studied for South Stream and Nord Stream II which would possibly use private funding, instead of counting on EU support.

The new pipeline could possibly start from the Crimean peninsula, which Russia incorporated in March 2014. The previous version was to begin from Anapa, with an estimated length of the underwater section measuring 781. Crimea is closer to the Bulgarian Black Sea, and the project would be cheaper. Additionally, a revived South Stream would not use the route to Central Europe through Serbia and Hungary as initially planned, but go through Greece and then offshore to Italy.

South Stream, a gas pipeline project that was to bring 2.2 TRILLION cubic feet of gas annually into Europe via Bulgaria and Serbia, was abandoned in December 2014, with Russian President Vladimir Putin blaming the European Commission for pressuring Bulgaria. The latter had refused to issue building permits for the pipe's offshore action, days before construction was to begin, as the EU Commission and Russia were at odds over the non-compliance of South Stream with liberalization rules. The announcement comes after Gazprom signed in March a memorandum of Understanding with Greek DEPA and Italian Edison SpA, which allowed for gas deliveries to Italy via Greece and "third countries". The latter expression could practically mean only Bulgaria (one of Greece's two neighbors to the east) in the context of Russian-Turkish tensions over a downed fighter-bomber.

Separately, several weeks ago it was revealed Austrian company Strabag was working on a tunnel beneath the port of Anapa where pipes would be laid. Speculation grew that Russia might be seeking to both provide Crimea with gas and make South Stream shorter and, as a consequence, cheaper as the economy is going through hard time .

[Synapsid]

ROCKMAN,

What's the date on Gazprom's saying South Stream could be revived, and pass through Greece to Italy?

[Subjectivist]

What happened to that proposal for Gazprom to act as a marketing network for Iranian natural gas that has to be turned into LNG to reach Europe currently?

[ROCKMAN]

Syn - The South Stream chatter is recent but I wouldn't take it very serious yet. Too many "what its" about deal specifics, routes, costs and especially political maneuvering by a number of actors.

Here's a story from last May:

http://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/ ... oject.html

[AgentR11]

What happened to that proposal for Gazprom to act as a marketing network for Iranian natural gas that has to be turned into LNG to reach Europe currently?

Contracts like that take years, not weeks or months to develop; not to mention I'm sure there's a bunch of infrastructure work that needs to be done to bring everything up to reasonable standards.

[ROCKMAN]

An interesting aspect to any potential Russian/Iranian relationship with regards to NG:

Israel and its neighbouring potential partner, Cyprus, of course must be quite aware that Gazprom, Russia’s battering ram, can easily prove to be a Trojan Horse in any major future natural gas development. Certainly, they will try to affect a project that could lessen their energy stranglehold over Europe. 20 million metric tons of liquid natural gas (LNG) exported each year from the eastern Mediterranean into Europe would amount to about one third of current Russian exports.

Whatever we may think of Vladimir Putin’s politics, one thing is clear, he is a shrewd, often ruthless, operator on the global stage. But Putin’s Kremlin is clearly rattled by the threat of decline for that which underpins Russia’s entire economy: its energy hegemony.

Putin is only too aware of the triple whammy of falling domestic energy productivity, surging global shale development in the wake of the transforming US shale revolution, and a new threat posed to a European market still dependent on Russian gas imports – the significant potential of Israeli and Cypriot gas exports.

[dissident]

South Stream, a gas pipeline project that was to bring 2.2 TRILLION cubic feet of gas annually into Europe via Bulgaria and Serbia, was abandoned in December 2014, with Russian President Vladimir Putin blaming the European Commission for pressuring Bulgaria. The latter had refused to issue building permits for the pipe's offshore action, days before construction was to begin, as the EU Commission and Russia were at odds over the non-compliance of South Stream with liberalization rules. The announcement comes after Gazprom signed in March a memorandum of Understanding with Greek DEPA and Italian Edison SpA, which allowed for gas deliveries to Italy via Greece and "third countries". The latter expression could practically mean only Bulgaria (one of Greece's two neighbors to the east) in the context of Russian-Turkish tensions over a downed fighter-bomber.

Typical NATO propaganda. It wasn't Putin who pulled the plug. It was Gazprom. Projecting such petty caricatures on a major world power is not healthy for the people of this planet in the long run. Also, the EU has been engaged in outright attacks on Russian pipeline projects. Various EU commissars routinely express concern that Banderastan will lose transit fees and that the EU must do everything to prevent this "disaster". EU commissars in Brussels also selectively apply regulations. Various EU pipeline projects are exempted from the ludicrous "liberalization" rules which would see other companies using Russian pipelines for free (sort of like in Canada small ISPs can use Bell's network for DSL services). If the EU wants this arrangement then it should pay the costs for pipelines over its territory. Gazprom needs to recover its construction costs. It ain't no charity for EU fat cats.

https://www.euractiv.com/section/energy ... y-package/

How cute. Gazprom must conform to the 3rd energy package rules but some EU project doesn't. F*ck off, EU.

[dissident]

An interesting aspect to any potential Russian/Iranian relationship with regards to NG:

Israel and its neighbouring potential partner, Cyprus, of course must be quite aware that Gazprom, Russia’s battering ram, can easily prove to be a Trojan Horse in any major future natural gas development. Certainly, they will try to affect a project that could lessen their energy stranglehold over Europe. 20 million metric tons of liquid natural gas (LNG) exported each year from the eastern Mediterranean into Europe would amount to about one third of current Russian exports.

Whatever we may think of Vladimir Putin’s politics, one thing is clear, he is a shrewd, often ruthless, operator on the global stage. But Putin’s Kremlin is clearly rattled by the threat of decline for that which underpins Russia’s entire economy: its energy hegemony.

Putin is only too aware of the triple whammy of falling domestic energy productivity, surging global shale development in the wake of the transforming US shale revolution, and a new threat posed to a European market still dependent on Russian gas imports – the significant potential of Israeli and Cypriot gas exports.

I can't wait for Russia to dump you turds for gas exports. You are so full of anti-Russian bile that you can't even see straight. Talking about strangle-holds when Russia has always given the EU a good price for gas (much better than Norway, for example) is just grotesque. Go and buy some LNG and set yourselves "free". Idiots.

[radon1]

I can't wait for Russia to dump you turds for gas exports.

Surely, let's dump them. And starve.

[dissident]

I can't wait for Russia to dump you turds for gas exports.

Surely, let's dump them. And starve.

Says the liberast. Yeah, Russia will starve because it will lose $28 billion in gas export revenue. You are innumerate.

[AgentR11]

I can't wait for Russia to dump you turds for gas exports.

Surely, let's dump them. And starve.

Russia produces at least three times the food calories that it consumes. Yall might not have external revenue useful for the purchases of tropical fruits and french wine if you stopped exporting; but as long as yall stick with improving market principles in Agriculture, "starve" will never, EVER happen.

I do think yall need a SNAP equivalent program as opposed to subtle/disguised retail price subsidies; SNAP removes distortion and prevents a "bread line" phenomenon where people want for bread while wheat rots in the field. Poor people here buy the same bread I do, at the same price, and use an essentially identical piece of plastic to pay for it (though mine is blue, and their's is white with a blue&red logo) All food calorie exporting countries need this sort of thing to guarantee domestic market integrity throughout the value chain. To be fair, such a thing takes a lot of time and effort to build, so don't take this TOO critically.

That said, Putin is never going to "dump" a customer. Dumping a customer is idiotic unless they refuse to pay their bill. He's very much the capitalist.

[AgentR11]

I can't wait for Russia to dump you turds for gas exports.

Ah diss, I hate to break it to you, and maybe the rock-pair don't want to be this blunt about it; but if Russia DID dump export of gas/oil to Western Europe we would (including myself) make a bucket ton of extra money; because Europe's requirements can not be met without LNG and we are setting up here on the Gulf Coast substantial LNG export capacity.

Go and buy some LNG and set yourselves "free". Idiots.

We don't buy LNG, we SELL it. (and right now, we're getting jipped on price!!!! grrrrrr) So please do, cut off W. Europe, I want a beach house/shack paid for by Russian stupidity.

[dissident]

I can't wait for Russia to dump you turds for gas exports.

Ah diss, I hate to break it to you, and maybe the rock-pair don't want to be this blunt about it; but if Russia DID dump export of gas/oil to Western Europe we would (including myself) make a bucket ton of extra money; because Europe's requirements can not be met without LNG and we are setting up here on the Gulf Coast substantial LNG export capacity.

Go and buy some LNG and set yourselves "free". Idiots.

We don't buy LNG, we SELL it. (and right now, we're getting jipped on price!!!! grrrrrr) So please do, cut off W. Europe, I want a beach house/shack paid for by Russian stupidity.

We = NATO, the anti-Russian military axis.

Also, the US is in no position to replace EU's imports of Russian gas with its LNG exports. That you supposedly can is a fiction peddled by your liar politicians.

The EU should go and eat cake since it obviously doesn't want the bread.

[AgentR11]

Also, the US is in no position to replace EU's imports of Russian gas with its LNG exports. That you supposedly can is a fiction peddled by your liar politicians.

The EU should go and it eat cake since it obviously doesn't want the bread.

You still have a weird perception about the relationship between customer and supplier. The CUSTOMER is the one doing the favor; always. You guys have that customer's attention at the moment because you can supply it cheaper; but if you WANT to cut your nose off because you think your CUSTOMER has some obligation to you, other than to pay their bill; that's fine with me.

Unfortunately, Putin's a lot smarter than you; and will not pass market share over to us over some emotional drivel.

Which is a shame, because I really would like a nice little beach house paid for by yielded Russian market share.