Donate Bitcoin

Donate Paypal


PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

Moon Helium Meet World Energy Need 10000 yrs

Discussions of conventional and alternative energy production technologies.

Re: Russia to build permanent moon base

Unread postby AgentR11 » Fri 04 Dec 2015, 10:10:46

I dunno Lore, I'm still not convinced on any particular pacing of the inevitable events.

To me, this is about the only manned mission that even makes sense, not just for Rus/China, but for any manned space flight. The Russians have been sitting in LEO trying to look busy and productive for longer than even we have; Mars is dumb, because the transit time is too high so you can't really adjust to conditions as they present; but the moon... You can have an offworld base, in a gravity well, that is not expensive to lift from, accomplish something that is actually useful, take advantage of the moon's pure vacuum environment for research (science or engineering)... Heck, getting stuff up on the moon is like storing delta-v; there's enough gravity to make working on stuff, building stuff easier; who knows how big a structure you could assemble in the low G environment and safely lift to moon orbit, dock it booster, accumulate fuel stores, deorbit, earth grav assist, and you got a big axx structure zipping through space with enough fuel to enter orbit somewhere else.

Of course, I'm a huge proponent of ditching the whole "go and safely return" mantra our dweebs chant. Once we'd spent enough time in LEO, and did our moon landing, we should have immediately changed our mission statements. "Go safely, stay and build."

I'd bet you could easily scrape up enough 50-something science guys (whose kids are grown) who'd say, "yep", to a [go, stay, and build] moon mission. (Mars still seems crazy unrealistic to me) Just keep the arthritis, statins, and bp meds flowing on the supply ships and you should be able to get a good 20+ years of work out of a human up there; and age and post reproductive status would moot most radiation exposure risks. Low G and the restrained attitudes of maturity should more than compensate for physical strength requirements.

Carry on!

nb.. I wouldn't think of the He3 as commercial, but rather a research material that can be collected that helps justify the expense as well as validates the "mining" technique. As such, you wouldn't need to return huge amounts of it suitable for industrial energy production; so it could simply be a small lift module, transit to Chinese space station with no time constraints, and they take it down from there as simple cargo. If it works, then its easy to justify expanding the operation on the moon.
Yes we are, as we are,
And so shall we remain,
Until the end.
AgentR11
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 6239
Joined: Tue 22 Mar 2011, 09:15:51
Location: East Texas

Re: Moon Helium Meet World Energy Need 10000 yrs

Unread postby Tanada » Tue 25 May 2021, 12:16:06

But not all potential lunar resources are as easy to extract. There are an estimated billion tonnes of helium-3, a potential fuel source, on the lunar surface, but extracting it would require a huge industrial complex mining hundreds of tonnes of regolith every second – a prospect that’s centuries away from being feasible, even under the most ambitious circumstances.


https://www.sciencefocus.com/space/future-of-moon-exploration/
Alfred Tennyson wrote:We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
User avatar
Tanada
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 16842
Joined: Thu 28 Apr 2005, 03:00:00
Location: South West shore Lake Erie, OH, USA

Re: Moon Helium Meet World Energy Need 10000 yrs

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Wed 26 May 2021, 10:56:01

Tanada wrote:
But not all potential lunar resources are as easy to extract. There are an estimated billion tonnes of helium-3, a potential fuel source, on the lunar surface, but extracting it would require a huge industrial complex mining hundreds of tonnes of regolith every second – a prospect that’s centuries away from being feasible, even under the most ambitious circumstances.


https://www.sciencefocus.com/space/future-of-moon-exploration/

And even if it were feasible to mine and store on the moon, that's one thing to use as a fuel for rockets at a lunar base or lunar orbital space station to minimize interaction with the earth's gravity well (the context of the overall article, from my brief perusal).

It's a COMPLETELY different thing, re the idea of taking minded HE-3 from the moon to the earth to be used as a fuel in the earth's gravity well, at a PRACTICAL cost -- given what will be happening with green energy in the coming decades.

This makes fusion power seem IN THE BAG by comparison, despite all the issues and uncertainties with that.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
User avatar
Outcast_Searcher
COB
COB
 
Posts: 10064
Joined: Sat 27 Jun 2009, 21:26:42
Location: Central KY

Re: Next Stop: The Moon

Unread postby Tanada » Wed 21 Sep 2022, 00:17:01

Ainan wrote:They are after Helium-3 on the moons surface to power fusion reactors so we can carry on consuming and growing.


Here you go;
China has returned helium-3 from the moon, opening door to future technology

The Chinese Chang’e 5 mission has returned a new mineral from the lunar surface. Chinese scientists call the mineral “Changesite-(Y).” The mineral has been described by the state-operated news agency Xinhau as a “kind-of colorless transparent columnar crystal.” Also, the Chinese claim that the new mineral contains helium-3, an isotope that many scientists have touted as a potential fuel for future fusion reactors.

The crystal mineral was exceedingly tiny, about one-tenth the size of a human hair. The new mineral is of immense interest to lunar geologists. The helium-3 that it contains has the potential to change the world.

Scientists have known the lunar surface contains deposits of helium-3 since the Apollo program. The main advantage of helium-3 fusion over fusion using tritium and deuterium, isotopes of hydrogen, is that it doesn’t create radioactive neutrons. Its main disadvantage is that achieving a controlled fusion reaction with helium-3 is far more difficult than using more conventional fuels.

According to NASA, China is preparing to mount the next phase of its lunar exploration program that will lead to a “research base” at the south pole of the moon. The planned missions include:

Chang’e 6, which, like Chang’e 5, will be a sample-return mission, focusing on the lunar south pole. It will likely attempt to bring back ice located in the permanently shadowed craters at the south pole.

Chang’e 7, which will be an orbiter, lander, rover combination designed to prospect for water at the lunar south pole. This mission may precede that of Chang’e 6.

Chang’e 8, said to be designed to test technologies for the eventual construction of a lunar base.

China, perhaps in partnership with Russia, still plans crewed lunar landings sometime in the 2030s.

In the meantime, NASA’s twice delayed Artemis 1 mission has a new launch date. If all goes well, the mighty Space Launch System rocket will lift off on Sept. 27, with Oct. 2 as a backup launch date. Whenever it launches, the mission will send an Orion spaceship, packed full of instruments and other cargo, on a long voyage around the moon, before splashing down in the Pacific Ocean off the coast of California.

Two robotic space missions, one by Intuitive Machines, the other by Astrobotic, are still scheduled to launch by the end of the year or the beginning of next year. If successful, they will land probes on the lunar surface, proving the efficacy of the Commercial Lunar Payload Systems (CLPS) program that is pairing private companies with NASA to begin lunar exploration in earnest. More CLPS missions will take place in the following years, though the program is haunted by the bankruptcy of one of the participants, Masten Space Systems.

NASA still plans to send Artemis 2 and a crew of four astronauts, one of them from Canada, around the moon in 2024. The next year (or perhaps the year following), Artemis 3 will land the first astronauts on the lunar surface since the mission of Apollo 17 in 1972.

Many reasons exist for returning to the moon: science, commerce and the bragging rights that translate into soft political power. However, China’s return of helium-3 suggests that the moon could become the Persian Gulf of the mid to late 21st century. Clean and abundant fusion energy would change the world in ways that can barely be evaluated.

Of course, the problem remains of getting the technology of helium-3 fusion working. Helium-3 fusion may not become a reality before the middle of this century because of the technological obstacles involved. Some changes in American space and energy policy might hasten the advent of helium-3 fusion, however.

The United States should start testing mining operations on the moon’s surface, particularly extracting helium-3 from lunar soil. Then helium-3 could be transported to Earth and provided to research laboratories so they can continue research and development of what promises to be a solution to both energy scarcity and climate change.

The country that controls the source of energy that keeps technological civilization running will control the Earth. If China becomes that country, considering its human rights record and imperial foreign policy, history will take a dark turn. Therefore, the United States and the countries that have signed the Artemis Accords must acquire control of lunar helium-3 and develop the technology to use it as a source of fusion energy. Thus, the Artemis program will ensure the continuance of prosperity and human freedom on the Earth.


LINKY
Alfred Tennyson wrote:We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
User avatar
Tanada
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 16842
Joined: Thu 28 Apr 2005, 03:00:00
Location: South West shore Lake Erie, OH, USA

Previous

Return to Energy Technology

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests