So many things are going wrong.....the pandemic has brought on an economic crisis in the middle of the climate crisis surrounded by endless wars and fiscal and political crisis. Is it possible that all these crises will combing into one giant hairball of a super-crisis that will cause the whole edifice of our global society to collapse.... ??
Newfie wrote:
I have been wondering about that. LTG has a number of factors coming to a slow crest about the same time. And they self reinforce the down turn. What would that look like, feel like, in real time?
I have a sense that the world wide over reaction to the virus is because we are collectively aware of our over shoot condition and thus fear of collapse. Thus as soon as this rather minor threat appeared we over reacted.
Do we, as a species, sense that we are at a peak time? Will that facilitate the crisis? Will that precipitate the crisis?
ralfy wrote:The accurate term is "realist".
Plantagenet wrote:AdamB wrote:peak oil was a crock
Why do you think that? Last time I looked the world hadn’t reached peak oil yet.
Plantagenet wrote:M. King Hubbert’s mathematical model that purported to predict the exact date of peak oil turned out to be a crock, but thats different from the concept of peak oil itself.
Hubbert in 1956 wrote:For any production curve of a finite resource of fixed amount, two points on the curve are known at the outset, namely that at t = 0 and again at t = ∞. The production rate will be zero when the reference time is zero, and the rate will again be zero when the resource is exhausted; that is to say, in the production of any resource of fixed magnitude, the production rate must begin at zero, and then after passing through one or several maxima, it must decline again to zero.
Plantagenet wrote:AdamB wrote: I have a theory that doomer expressions of fear .... are more related to a fear of individual mortality, then any fear of global doom.
Once again you demonstrate that you don’t understand what you read. I’ve never seen any “expressions of fear” by any poster at this site ever.
Plantagenet wrote:Collapsology is big in France and some collapsologists in France think the Wuhan virus is going to act as a catalyst to bring on economic depression and famines and pestilence and wars and then general societal collapse.
AdamB wrote:and you want to pretend this in combination with the steps they then take isn't proof of cheese eating surrender monkeys expressing fear?
REAL Green wrote:AdamB wrote:and you want to pretend this in combination with the steps they then take isn't proof of cheese eating surrender monkeys expressing fear?
Your being dramatic about this.
REAL Green wrote: What is wrong with being prepared for disruptive events?
REAL Green wrote: Think of all the BS Nonsense in the world.
REAL Green wrote: People that overreact to these things generally have an agenda themselves. The drama and extremism works both ways in the absurd.
Ibon wrote:Newfie wrote:
I have been wondering about that. LTG has a number of factors coming to a slow crest about the same time. And they self reinforce the down turn. What would that look like, feel like, in real time?
I have a sense that the world wide over reaction to the virus is because we are collectively aware of our over shoot condition and thus fear of collapse. Thus as soon as this rather minor threat appeared we over reacted.
Do we, as a species, sense that we are at a peak time? Will that facilitate the crisis? Will that precipitate the crisis?
Yes. Definitely. A couple of years ago I arrived at the conclusion that we collectively had a major gestalt shift in our orientation moving from a position of seeing ourselves as a top predator over to a new orientation feeling collectively like prey.
As I was arguing with Dohboi and others a couple years ago that the most vulnerable species at the moment on the planet are humans because of the sheer scale of correction on the short term horizon.
This was all before I referred to humans as Kudzu Bunnies in regards to our overly fearful response to the pandemic.
We may not have all the scientific details regarding all the different modalities of collapse but we certainly have the capability to synthesize the different threats of overpopulation, climate change, biodiversity loss, fresh water soil and fisheries decline, geopolitical major shifts etc etc.. which leads to a profound sense of vulnerability.
We are indeed in a defensive contracted state like prey. Unhinged from that confident alpha top predator position.
We collectively know it and sense it
This will lead to tremendous social upheavel as we move through the consequences. But also seed the emergence of a new balanced perspective of our place in the community of life.
I think it is no exaggeration that we all stand before the precipice of unprecedented seismic events.
Fucking long overdue.
AdamB wrote:there is always a peak oil going on..
AdamB wrote:Hubbert in 1956 wrote:For any production curve of a finite resource of fixed amount, two points on the curve are known at the outset, namely that at t = 0 and again at t = ∞. The production rate will be zero when the reference time is zero, and the rate will again be zero when the resource is exhausted; that is to say, in the production of any resource of fixed magnitude, the production rate must begin at zero, and then after passing through one or several maxima, it must decline again to zero.
A copy of the entire work here for those with revisionist tendencies on what the man wrote, and what is axiomatic within the peak oil "idea".
Newfie wrote:Ibon wrote:Newfie wrote:
I have been wondering about that. LTG has a number of factors coming to a slow crest about the same time. And they self reinforce the down turn. What would that look like, feel like, in real time?
I have a sense that the world wide over reaction to the virus is because we are collectively aware of our over shoot condition and thus fear of collapse. Thus as soon as this rather minor threat appeared we over reacted.
Do we, as a species, sense that we are at a peak time? Will that facilitate the crisis? Will that precipitate the crisis?
Yes. Definitely. A couple of years ago I arrived at the conclusion that we collectively had a major gestalt shift in our orientation moving from a position of seeing ourselves as a top predator over to a new orientation feeling collectively like prey.
As I was arguing with Dohboi and others a couple years ago that the most vulnerable species at the moment on the planet are humans because of the sheer scale of correction on the short term horizon.
This was all before I referred to humans as Kudzu Bunnies in regards to our overly fearful response to the pandemic.
We may not have all the scientific details regarding all the different modalities of collapse but we certainly have the capability to synthesize the different threats of overpopulation, climate change, biodiversity loss, fresh water soil and fisheries decline, geopolitical major shifts etc etc.. which leads to a profound sense of vulnerability.
We are indeed in a defensive contracted state like prey. Unhinged from that confident alpha top predator position.
We collectively know it and sense it
This will lead to tremendous social upheavel as we move through the consequences. But also seed the emergence of a new balanced perspective of our place in the community of life.
I think it is no exaggeration that we all stand before the precipice of unprecedented seismic events.
Fucking long overdue.
Now here’s the thing. We ARE top level predators.
But we have nothing left to exploit, except our own species.
Think about it, as predators (and scavengers) we are genetically programmed for aggression, to take down prey.
THAT may be the great unraveling, as we turn upon ourselves. Its sometimes called life boat ethics, or survival of the fittest.
Are we seeing the beginning of that now? The fight for whats left?
Plantagenet wrote:AdamB wrote:there is always a peak oil going on..
Obviously you don't understand the concept of peak oil.
Plantagenet wrote:AdamB wrote:Hubbert in 1956 wrote:For any production curve of a finite resource of fixed amount, two points on the curve are known at the outset, namely that at t = 0 and again at t = ∞. The production rate will be zero when the reference time is zero, and the rate will again be zero when the resource is exhausted; that is to say, in the production of any resource of fixed magnitude, the production rate must begin at zero, and then after passing through one or several maxima, it must decline again to zero.
A copy of the entire work here for those with revisionist tendencies on what the man wrote, and what is axiomatic within the peak oil "idea".
Wake up and smell the roses. Hubbert's linearization model DID NOT WORK.
Plantagenet wrote:I REPEAT FOR THOSE WHO ARE SLOW: HUBBERTS LINEARIZATION MODEL WHICH PURPORTED TO PREDICT THE DATE OF PEAK OIL HAS BEEN FALSIFIED.
Cheers!
Ibon wrote:What we have is a self entitled top predator suddenly intuitively frightened...
Wow, that does sound like the perfect scenario for some serious societal dysfunction.
AdamB wrote:Ibon wrote:What we have is a self entitled top predator suddenly intuitively frightened...
Wow, that does sound like the perfect scenario for some serious societal dysfunction.
Sounds like the same sort of conditions that caused religion to be invented for the first organized mechanisms for large scale social control, dampening down fears, providing a ethereal reward, etc etc.
Not the whole idea, but there is far more to this than any one reference can encompass.
Ibon wrote:AdamB wrote:Ibon wrote:What we have is a self entitled top predator suddenly intuitively frightened...
Wow, that does sound like the perfect scenario for some serious societal dysfunction.
Sounds like the same sort of conditions that caused religion to be invented for the first organized mechanisms for large scale social control, dampening down fears, providing a ethereal reward, etc etc.
Funny you should mention that. I have always said that the origin of our ecological dilemma is primarily spiritual in nature as much as it is the logistical challenge of managing resources in a sustainable way.
Ibon wrote:If events proceed and unfold in biblical proportions society will respond by redefining the spiritual context in how we choose to live a balanced life with our fellow fauna and flora. This new orientation comes as a result of moving through those consequences.
Ibon wrote:But who knows, this process may not happen in an apocalyptical way and may be more gradual.
AdamB wrote:.. trolling again for fun..
Plantagenet wrote:AdamB wrote:.. trolling again for fun..
Please stop it. Please also stop your childish name-calling.
Plantagenet wrote:You are welcome to join in the discussion here, but please try to avoid attacking the other posters and please avoid calling them names because it diverts the thread away from discussing the topic.
AdamB wrote:and what might your opinion be on the odds of changing our collective behavior BEFORE we get to see all the Biblical consequences?
Alfred Tennyson wrote:We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
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