OilFinder2 wrote:Another interesting article:
>>> Technology Review <<<[...]
Last Friday, the United States Geological Survey (USGS) announced the discovery of suitable conditions for mining methane hydrates 1,000 meters beneath the seabed in the Gulf of Mexico. Together with Chevron and the U.S. Department of Energy, the USGS discovered the reserve of hydrates in high concentrations in 15-to-30-meter-thick beds of sand--conditions very much like terrestrial methane hydrate reserves, which have already yielded commercially useful flow rates. These deposits are substantially different from the gas hydrates that have previously been discovered in U.S. coastal waters, which exist in relatively shallow waters at the surface of the seabed and have become a concern for climate scientists because of their potential to melt rapidly and release large quantities of methane into the atmosphere.
In the spring of 2008, a joint Canadian-Japanese expedition in Mallik in the Northwest Territories, Canada, established that methane hydrates could be harvested by using a water pump to depressurize a well already drilled into the reserve. This involved lowering the pressure pumping out the water that naturally accumulates in the well. Crucially, it required only 10 to 15 percent of the energy represented by the gas that flowed out of the well, making it a much more viable approach than earlier methods used to harvest hydrates, which involved melting them with warm water. Standard oil and gas drilling equipment was used to reenter an old well drilled to a depth of 3,500 feet and then "refurbish" it by casing the entire well with lengths of steel tubing that cemented into place in order to prevent it from collapsing.
Hydrates require both cold temperatures and high pressure to form; eliminating either condition frees the gas from its icy cage, but past attempts to do this by heating the hydrates proved prohibitively difficult. The Canadian-Japanese expedition successfully produced up to 4,000 cubic meters of gas a day during a six-day trial in 2008 using depressurization.
"I think [the Gulf of Mexico find] and Mallik are two revolutionary events," says Timothy Collett, a geologist with the USGS and one of the world's foremost authorities on gas hydrates.
[...]
"The Japanese are planning commercial production from the Nankai Trough by 2017," says Koh. If they succeed, Japan will tap the first domestic fossil-fuel reserves the country has ever known.
Four of the wells found high concentrations of hydrate in porous, permeable sands. Two found low concentrations of hydrate in promising sands. One found promising sand but no hydrate.
dohboi wrote:"Any fractures in that rock and you're adding who knows how much methane to global emissions. "
This is, of course, the main immediate threat of these approaches. It's as if we have just discovered a massive sleeping giant that could wipe us all out and what's the first thing we do? Start prodding and poking him with pointy sticks.
Not even yeast would do this. Looks as though we fall far below even their IQ level.
pstarr wrote:I didn't believe that number when I read it, and I don't believe it now. It's casual dissemination positively reeks of presumption. In short, it was pulled out of some PR flacks b_tth@le.OilFinder2 wrote:No p4brains, I got the number from a citation in the Technology Review article. Which you still haven't read.OilFinder2 wrote:Another interesting article:
>>> Technology Review <<<[...]
Last Friday, the United States Geological Survey (USGS) announced the discovery of suitable conditions for mining methane hydrates 1,000 meters beneath the seabed in the Gulf of Mexico. Together with Chevron and the U.S. Department of Energy, the USGS discovered the reserve of hydrates in high concentrations in 15-to-30-meter-thick beds of sand--conditions very much like terrestrial methane hydrate reserves, which have already yielded commercially useful flow rates. These deposits are substantially different from the gas hydrates that have previously been discovered in U.S. coastal waters, which exist in relatively shallow waters at the surface of the seabed and have become a concern for climate scientists because of their potential to melt rapidly and release large quantities of methane into the atmosphere.
In the spring of 2008, a joint Canadian-Japanese expedition in Mallik in the Northwest Territories, Canada, established that methane hydrates could be harvested by using a water pump to depressurize a well already drilled into the reserve. This involved lowering the pressure pumping out the water that naturally accumulates in the well. Crucially, it required only 10 to 15 percent of the energy represented by the gas that flowed out of the well, making it a much more viable approach than earlier methods used to harvest hydrates, which involved melting them with warm water. Standard oil and gas drilling equipment was used to reenter an old well drilled to a depth of 3,500 feet and then "refurbish" it by casing the entire well with lengths of steel tubing that cemented into place in order to prevent it from collapsing.
Hydrates require both cold temperatures and high pressure to form; eliminating either condition frees the gas from its icy cage, but past attempts to do this by heating the hydrates proved prohibitively difficult. The Canadian-Japanese expedition successfully produced up to 4,000 cubic meters of gas a day during a six-day trial in 2008 using depressurization.
"I think [the Gulf of Mexico find] and Mallik are two revolutionary events," says Timothy Collett, a geologist with the USGS and one of the world's foremost authorities on gas hydrates.
[...]
Where is the reference? Net-energy analysis is a serious discipline. It is not a throwaway.
pstarr wrote:OF, there are no studies of energy return in your linked page.
pstarr wrote:Why should there be net-energy analysis? With cheap petroleum this subject was always neglected, is not assigned in engineering schools, and energy production companies apparently still don't understand that geology trumps economics.
Really only Pimentel bothers. He studies agricultural products (sugar/starch and cellulosic ethanol, and biodiesel) and was the only one who understood that corn ethanol was a waste of time (except as an additive) and that it would go nowhere.
I predicted that and was right. You can go back as far as you want here and you will find that I called this a waste from the beginning. Hydrates are the same.
pstarr wrote:No study in that list analyzes net energy,
Formation of gas hydrate in the seabed acts as a barrier to rising natural gas, inhibiting its expulsion through the seafloor and into the ocean.
OilFinder2 wrote:This GOM hydrate find seems to be getting a lot of press:
>>> US Gas Hydrates Find Has Worldwide Implications <<<
pstarr wrote:It's not there. Read the titles.OilFinder2 wrote:pstarr wrote:No study in that list analyzes net energy,
The lying continues. You do not know that, you merely assume it.
I'll play your game: Prove to me that no study in that list analyses net energy.
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