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Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby Yonnipun » Sat 30 Jun 2018, 18:13:29

onlooker wrote:Yes, I will say that for losing weight, the high protein fat diet is the best as it truly satiates. And opposed to carbs that leave one feeling hungry. I would to research Fiber more.


Take a look at this link about fiber:
[url]
https://bengreenfieldfitness.com/transc ... nastyrsky/[/url]
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Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby Yonnipun » Sat 30 Jun 2018, 18:48:31

https://bengreenfieldfitness.com/podcast/nutrition-podcasts/how-much-fiber-to-eat/

Just listened it. He claims that the type 1 diabetes in babies is because of dietary fiber. Babies have very small diameter intestines and ingesting fiber could clog up something there causing pancreatitis which eventually could lead to the loss of beta-cells.
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Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby Newfie » Sat 30 Jun 2018, 19:10:46

Yonnipun,

Not to “egg” you on too much but check out this guy.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vilhjalmur_Stefansson

You have to scan down quite a bit to find the relevant heading. Schackelton damn near died on an earlier expedition due to scurvy. In latter expeditions they carried more meat.

Quite an interesting individual. Fascinating life history.
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Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby Yonnipun » Sun 01 Jul 2018, 06:04:55

Newfie wrote:Yonnipun,

Not to “egg” you on too much but check out this guy.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vilhjalmur_Stefansson

You have to scan down quite a bit to find the relevant heading. Schackelton damn near died on an earlier expedition due to scurvy. In latter expeditions they carried more meat.

Quite an interesting individual. Fascinating life history.


Yes I have read about him. It seems that eating fresh meat or vegetables and fruit prevents scurvy.
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Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby Shaved Monkey » Sun 08 Jul 2018, 03:54:23

We have a local organic farmer who add the waste from the butcher and fish mongers and green grocer to his fields.
He digs a trench and buries blood,animal gut and manures, fat, bone dusts,horns hooves (he has a chipper for the bigger stuff,its also full of fish guts heads and frames.
He has great soil and produces the best organic veg in town yet he is boycotted by the vegans.
They would rather have something produced by artificial fertilisers trucked in or pretend shipped in organic veg doesnt have chook manure from a battery hen farm or cow manure from a slaughter house, stock yard or dairy improving the soil.
Lets not even think of the poor exploited bees fertilising the flowers to create the fruit and veg

It appears ignorance is bliss
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Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby dohboi » Sun 08 Jul 2018, 12:27:29

Thanks for bumping the thread, SM.

Perhaps they should add some monkey parts to that mix! :lol: :lol:

Really, as long as people are in fact eating ungodly amounts of unhealthy and immoral meat, I'm all for making the best use of the offal as possible.

But with ~7.5 billion humans on the planet, I'm sure farmers would be able to find lots of humanure and other human 'by products' to fertilize their fields with...

Just sayin'

Humans are, after all, just another species of animal...
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Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby Yonnipun » Sun 08 Jul 2018, 14:40:39

Really, as long as people are in fact eating ungodly amounts of unhealthy and immoral meat


There are forty-nine natural pesticides and metabolites found in cabbage alone:

Glucosinolates: 2-propenyl glucosinolate (sinigrin),* 3-methylthiopropyl glucosinolate, 3-methylsulfinylpropyl glucosinolate, 3-butenyl glucosinolate, 2-hydroxy-3-butenyl glucosinolate, 4-methylthiobutyl glucosinolate, 4-methylsulfinylbutyl glucosinolate, 4-methylsulfonylbutyl glucosinolate, benzyl glucosinolate, 2-phenylethyl glucosinolate, propyl glucosinolate, butyl glucosinolate Indole glucosinolates and related indoles: 3-indolylmethyl glucosinolate (glucobrassicin), 1-methoxy-3-indolylmethyl glucosinolate (neoglucobrassicin), indole-3-carbinol,* indole-3-acetonitrile, bis(3-indolyl)methane Isothiocyanates and goitrin: allyl isothiocyanate,* 3-methylthiopropyl isothiocyanate, 3-methylsulfinylpropyl isothiocyanate, 3-butenyl isothiocyanate, 5-vinyloxazolidine-2-thione (goitrin), 4-methylthiobutyl isothiocyanate, 4-methylsulfinylbutyl isothiocyanate, 4-methylsulfonylbutyl isothiocyanate, 4-pentenyl isothiocyanate, benzyl isothiocyanate, phenylethyl isothiocyanate Cyanides: 1-cyano-2,3-epithiopropane, 1-cyano-3,4-epithiobutane, 1-cyano-3,4-epithiopentane, threo-1-cyano-2-hydroxy-3,4-epithiobutane, erythro-1-cyano-2-hydroxy-3,4-epithiobutane, 2-phenylpropionitrile, allyl cyanide,* 1-cyano-2-hydroxy-3-butene, 1-cyano-3- methylsulfinylpropane, 1-cyano-4-methylsulfinylbutane Terpenes: menthol, neomenthol, isomenthol, carvone* Phenols: 2-methoxyphenol, 3-caffoylquinic acid (chlorogenic acid),* 4-caffoylquinic acid,* 5-caffoylquinic acid (neochlorogenic acid),* 4-(p-coumaroyl)quinic acid, 5-(p-coumaroyl)quinic acid, 5-feruloylquinic acid
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Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby dohboi » Sun 08 Jul 2018, 16:56:34

Ummm, that's why you grow your own or get organic.

But because of bio-accumulation, pretty much any meat is going to have much higher concentrations of toxins than pretty much any plant-based food.

Oh, sorry to bring actual science into the conversation...I know that stuff is toxic to you! :lol: :lol:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bioaccumulation
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Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby Yonnipun » Mon 09 Jul 2018, 01:42:49

dohboi wrote:Ummm, that's why you grow your own or get organic.


Those are all natural. Plants need them because they can not run away.
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Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby dohboi » Mon 09 Jul 2018, 07:25:06

And we've evolved to be able to eat them with no harm, and in fact with benefits. I see that the heading of your list is 'glucosinates.' Here's some interesting info on them:

glucosinolates are natural components of many pungent plants such as mustard, cabbage, and horseradish. The pungency of those plants is due to the release of oils containing glucosinolates when the plant material is chewed, cut, or otherwise damaged. These natural chemicals most likely contribute to plant defence against pests and diseases, but are also enjoyed in small amounts by humans and are believed to contribute to the health promoting properties of cruciferous vegetables


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glucosinolate


What we haven't evolved to do is to thrive in world with tons of new synthetic chemicals many of which are persistent and that we and other living things have no evolutionary experience in dealing with.

These are now everywhere, but particularly concentrated in most meats.

But if you want to go on and on about the horrors of eating various compounds that occur naturally in plants, knock yourself out! :lol: :lol: :lol:

(It would be considerate to readers, however, if you cited your sources with links...thanks :) )
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Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby onlooker » Mon 09 Jul 2018, 10:43:08

Saw this article by chance and felt obligation to post it here
VEGANISM IS 'SINGLE BIGGEST WAY' TO REDUCE OUR ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT ON PLANET, STUDY FINDS
https://www.independent.co.uk/life-styl ... 78631.html
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Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby Yonnipun » Mon 09 Jul 2018, 12:39:26

onlooker wrote:Saw this article by chance and felt obligation to post it here
VEGANISM IS 'SINGLE BIGGEST WAY' TO REDUCE OUR ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT ON PLANET, STUDY FINDS
https://www.independent.co.uk/life-styl ... 78631.html


Probably this study like any other does not count in topsoil degradation. Also what about the money poured into the heath care and medicine caused by the unhealthy diet ( humans are carnivores)? High Blood pressure, heart attacks, athelescrelosis etc etc are all complications of metabolic syndrom called diabetes.
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Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby onlooker » Mon 09 Jul 2018, 12:58:38

I would think topsoil degradation bolsters the headline of the cited article as forests are cleared to make way for cattle ranching and the degradation that comes from overgrazing sheep and such
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Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby Yonnipun » Mon 09 Jul 2018, 13:39:44

onlooker wrote:I would think topsoil degradation bolsters the headline of the cited article as forests are cleared to make way for cattle ranching and the degradation that comes from overgrazing sheep and such


Sorry I just did not click on that link because I automatically pass everything that promotes veganism. Nature has designed us to eat mostly meat. That is all I need to know. I do not have the money to go full carnivore but I try to eat as much quality meat as possible. Poor people have to eat a lot of grains and starch and that is the reason they become fat and later in their life die from diabetic complications. India is the diabetes capital of the world!!
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Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby dohboi » Mon 09 Jul 2018, 20:45:06

"forests are cleared to make way for cattle ranching and the degradation that comes from overgrazing sheep"

Good points, ol.

And thank, Y, for admitting that you just ignore any evidence or links that might contradict your precious, unsubstantiated assumptions.
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Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby Yonnipun » Tue 10 Jul 2018, 01:47:11

And thank, Y, for admitting that you just ignore any evidence or links that might contradict your precious, unsubstantiated assumptions.


Let me quote from wiki:

In 1775, the Royal Academy of Sciences in Paris made the statement that the Academy "will no longer accept or deal with proposals concerning perpetual motion."


As you can see sometimes there is no point proving why something is obviously wrong. Just ditch it right away.
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Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby Shaved Monkey » Tue 10 Jul 2018, 03:17:05

dohboi wrote:
But with ~7.5 billion humans on the planet, I'm sure farmers would be able to find lots of humanure and other human 'by products' to fertilize their fields with...

Just sayin'

Humans are, after all, just another species of animal...

A friend got a truck load of composted humanure from the next town down the road delivered, it was beautiful compost,it was supposed to be safe enough for veg but he just put it under his fruit trees.
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Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby Shaved Monkey » Tue 10 Jul 2018, 03:26:42

dohboi wrote:"forests are cleared to make way for cattle ranching and the degradation that comes from overgrazing sheep"

Good points, ol.

And thank, Y, for admitting that you just ignore any evidence or links that might contradict your precious, unsubstantiated assumptions.

Land is cleared for agriculture too.

When they talk of the methane emitted by cows chewing and composting grass, do they do the same research for composting vegetative food sources too and compare them.
If we replaced the protein source with grains etc would we be really reducing methane as the increased stubble/waste that would be produced was composted/rotted ?
Its not that cows stomachs are magically making methane out of thin air, they are composting it from vegetable matter, as they produce a concentrated protein source.
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Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby Newfie » Tue 10 Jul 2018, 07:40:17

dohboi wrote:"forests are cleared to make way for cattle ranching and the degradation that comes from overgrazing sheep"

Good points, ol.

And thank, Y, for admitting that you just ignore any evidence or links that might contradict your precious, unsubstantiated assumptions.


Dohboi,

Before you get all snarky with folks recall that you have been asked a question, earlier by myself and later by KJ, which you refuse to answer.

To paraphrase: What is you plan to assure the unused calories will not be diverted to additional population growth?

This is the “perpetual motion” machine mentioned above.
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Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby dohboi » Tue 10 Jul 2018, 09:59:22

SM wrote, beautiful about the use of humanure. Where did they source it from?

On the other thing, most of the land cleared for 'agriculture' is actually used for corn that will then be fed to livestock. So that is also part of the meat eating problem, not some new source of ghg from vegans, lol.

Newf, as I have explained ad nauseum, the questions is based on false premises.

Specifically the false premise that countries with greater availability of food have the highest population rates while those with the lowest food availability have the lowest population rates. The reality is pretty much the opposite of that.

Unless you can show how that is not the case, you have basically asked me when I am going to stop beating my wife (with no proof that I have been beating her...and I haven't ! :-D :-D ).

With that in mind... if I was the absolute ruler of the world, and could wave a wand and make most people mostly vegan most of the time, as had been the case in the fairly recent past...

I would then also have the power to give women everywhere full rights over their own bodies, full access to contraception and abortion, free or cheap health service and education...strategies which have shown over and over to be the most effective at reducing birth rates in a humane fashion.

I would then need to go on to banish the advertising industry to start to slay the other monster in the equation--per capita consumption, or turn it over to actual useful education on the dangers of over-consumption, on gw, on the usefulness of eating plant based diets, growing your own food...
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