[asg70]

You can't look at the statues in isolation. It's part of a larger "cultural revolution" style event which encapsulates cancel-culture and wokifying the media. A lot of this crosses the line as far as I'm concerned. It's not about the underlying intentions. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

[Newfie]

You can't look at the statues in isolation. It's part of a larger "cultural revolution" style event which encapsulates cancel-culture and wokifying the media. A lot of this crosses the line as far as I'm concerned. It's not about the underlying intentions. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

I agree with the “cultural revolution” concept, I think.

It’s a phrase that has been in use all my life.
60’s civil rights
70’s Nam and the sexual revolution
Regan and then Bill with the “workfare” meme
911 and Iraq were we saw the “security culture”
Which now breeds the “safety culture”

[rockdoc123]

Let's ask an actual historian, since every body here seems to be suddenly so concerned about history (tho I can't recall anyone loudly shouting about how the lockdowns have to end so that everyone can get back into museums to learn about history! :lo

l: )

He's a friggin ART historian. Which means he probably knows less about what transpired politically in the pre and post civil war than your average citizen. Maybe if you were to ask his opinion on what classic art came out of that period.

The statues are simply representations of history. They help people to remember the good significant accomplishments made by individuals through time and in so doing help people to remember how far they have come as a nation. There is good and bad in history but ignoring the bad, thinking you can simply wipe it away by destroying statues you mistakenly think represent those bad parts of history will achieve nothing good in the end. Remembering what was wrong and was to some extent made better is important. Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

[JuanP]

You can't look at the statues in isolation. It's part of a larger "cultural revolution" style event which encapsulates cancel-culture and wokifying the media. A lot of this crosses the line as far as I'm concerned. It's not about the underlying intentions. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

I completely agree, asg70. I am against racism or discrimination based on sex, age, sexual orientation, ethnicity, national origin, or anything else. I believe in providing equal rights, benefits, and opportunities to all people everywhere in the world, but this cancel and woke thing is over the top and counterproductive, IMHO. If they are alienating people like me who strongly believe in these problems, then they must be alienating the vast majority of humanity. I consider myself extremely liberal and progressive where social issues are concerned, though conservative on economic matters. I don't see how this cancel/woke movement can succeed if people like me feel so alienated by their attitude and behavior.

[Plantagenet]

There is good and bad in history but ignoring the bad, thinking you can simply wipe it away by destroying statues you mistakenly think represent those bad parts of history will achieve nothing good in the end.

It would at least make sense if the BLM and antifa mobs would limit themselves to destroying statues that represent "bad parts of history."

But the people leading the mobs are so stupid they are destroying statues indiscriminately. A BLM mob in San Francisco celebrating "Juneteenth" destroyed a statue of Ulysses S. Grant----the Union General who defeated the confederacy and made Juneteenth possible. Another mob destroyed a statue of an abolitionist in Philadelphia.

Perhaps worst of all A mob in DC is trying to tear down a statue of Lincoln that was erected and paid for by freed black slaves who wanted to express their gratitude to Lincoln for emancipating them. The statute in DC is an important part of black history.....the BLM/antifa mobs are apparently too ignorant to understand things like that.

Mobs are inherently dangerous because they can be swayed by stupid people to do stupid, violent things......and BLM and antifa mobs are no different.

Cheers!

[dohboi]

By all means, let's ignore context and totally fail to look at what is actually happening...

[asg70]

Mobs are inherently dangerous because they can be swayed by stupid people to do stupid, violent things.

And this is exactly why I think there should be an intelligence test to be allowed to vote. Voting in this country has become almost entirely emotion-driven rather than reason-driven. For instance, even those who vehemently opposed the left may have thought twice about voting in Trump if they really looked at the pros and cons from a more reasonable perspective. The more emotion-driven the more impulsive decisions become which can lead to really bad outcomes.

[dohboi]

Again, I'm sympathetic with your motives, but again, this kind of thing does not have a happy history in the US.

Meanwhile, I hope no one here thinks they care more about the memories of these guys than their own descendants do.



Why the Descendants of Confederate Generals Are Happy to See Their Names Go

As the Senate prepares to debate renaming military bases, we called living family members of the generals. Here's what they said.

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/ ... ses-341278

[jedrider]

Mobs are inherently dangerous because they can be swayed by stupid people to do stupid, violent things.

And this is exactly why I think there should be an intelligence test to be allowed to vote. Voting in this country has become almost entirely emotion-driven rather than reason-driven. For instance, even those who vehemently opposed the left may have thought twice about voting in Trump if they really looked at the pros and cons from a more reasonable perspective. The more emotion-driven the more impulsive decisions become which can lead to really bad outcomes.

I must admit: Many INTELLIGENT people voted for Trump. No intelligence test needed.

[asg70]

Many INTELLIGENT people voted for Trump.

Not by my definition of the term.

[jedrider]

Many INTELLIGENT people voted for Trump.

Not by my definition of the term.

You mean a STUPIDITY test is needed. But that would be unconstitutional.
Where would the Supreme Court be today without Stupid?

[Plantagenet]

a STUPIDITY test is needed.

This election is more about a senility test.

Biden and Trump are now arguing over who is more senile........perhaps they could both take a senility test and settle the matter.

trump-biden-cognitive-decline-who-is-more-senile-?

Cheers!

[vtsnowedin]

Back when they wrote the constitution voting was almost exclusively held by white male property owners. As the same group paid almost all the taxes they were the ones with skin in the game. The frontier American dream was to go out and carve out a property of your own and become a eligible voter with the prosperity that went with it.
I wonder what the polls would be like if they just polled that original group?

[Newfie]

Back when they wrote the constitution voting was almost exclusively held by white male property owners. As the same group paid almost all the taxes they were the ones with skin in the game. The frontier American dream was to go out and carve out a property of your own and become a eligible voter with the prosperity that went with it.
I wonder what the polls would be like if they just polled that original group?

White male property owners or property owners?

In any case it and in the short term it would most likely gut the D party.

But as the parties adjusted to the “new normal” i think it would change a lot as they both catered to the voting demographic.

http://www.electproject.org/home/voter- ... mographics

[vtsnowedin]

I wonder what the polls would be like if they just polled that original group?

White male property owners or property owners?

In any case it and in the short term it would most likely gut the D party.

But as the parties adjusted to the “new normal” i think it would change a lot as they both catered to the voting demographic.

In 1784 they were one and the same.Today I'd poll all property owners as ownership and tax burden shapes peoples opinions more then their skin color.
And yes if given a new voter pool both parties will attempt to cater to it.

[asg70]

Every group votes to further their own selfish interests. That's the whole "bridge to nowhere" phenomenon or voting for more and more entitlements. This is why, as has been stated countless times, democracies tend to collapse. A well functioning democracy requires a minimum amount of sacrifice for the sake of the common good.

[Newfie]

ASG,

I’ve become rather pessimistic about things, probably beyond a point imagined possible. I find it very difficult to keep hope alive and well.

[Ibon]

A well functioning democracy requires a minimum amount of sacrifice for the sake of the common good.

I think your comment regarding the minimal of sacrifice required to keep democracy intact is highlighted on this 4 minute CNN report on the difference between Canada and the USA regarding Covid19.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuXtfS6QIR8

[vtsnowedin]

Every group votes to further their own selfish interests. .

Yes but intelligent voters will vote for their long term interests, not unsustainable payouts. And individual long term interests are best assured by by having a viable prosperous economy with opportunities for the majority not just an elite few.

[Plantagenet]

.... intelligent voters will vote for their long term interests, not unsustainable payouts. And individual long term interests are best assured by by having a viable prosperous economy with opportunities for the majority not just an elite few.

You are assuming the US has intelligent voters. I personally don't see much sign of that these days from either the Ds or the Rs.

Cheers!