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LENR, Rossi and the ECAT Thread pt 5

Discussions of conventional and alternative energy production technologies.

Re: LENR, Rossi and the ECAT Thread pt 5

Unread postby diemos » Thu 19 Nov 2020, 22:14:11

mousepad wrote:The conclusions you're arriving at, man. Just because I don't believe in science to make life better, I'm not a doomer. I believe science is a very good tool to send a man to the moon. But science fails badly in things that matter to me. For example science can't make me happy or make me laugh. That's why I don't believe in science.


The correct term for science is "creationism", and I study the creation to learn its nature because it is the only source of knowledge available that I can be certain does not come from man. It may be subtle and complicated but I know it never lies to me. I might lie to myself about its nature but it always is, what it is.

But if you're looking for something to "believe in" to make you happy then you should stick to religion. The creation may be vast, ancient and wondrous, a harmony of mathematical perfection, but it has many aspects that you are not going to like ... at all.
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Re: LENR, Rossi and the ECAT Thread pt 5

Unread postby mousepad » Thu 19 Nov 2020, 22:46:26

diemos wrote:It may be subtle and complicated but I know it never lies to me.

If you can read it right. Many a man reads what he wants to read or what he's told to read.
The vast majority of people have no idea about science. The most complex logic thought they can form is "I'm hungry therefore I must eat".

Those people are indoctrinated in school to believe science to be the big salvation. The savior of humankind. If we only believe in it with all our heart we can overcome any hardship. Yet most of them can't solve a linear equation.
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Re: LENR, Rossi and the ECAT Thread pt 5

Unread postby diemos » Thu 19 Nov 2020, 23:25:57

mousepad wrote:Those people are indoctrinated in school to believe science to be the big salvation. The savior of humankind. If we only believe in it with all our heart we can overcome any hardship. Yet most of them can't solve a linear equation.


Well, we could start an entire new thread on the failings of science education in the K-12 system if you want.

But I'm sure that the people who spent a couple of decades desperately trying to find a way to keep their faces from rotting and falling off from leprosy would have been delighted to know about the germ theory of disease and antibiotics.

Science isn't salvation but it is useful.
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Re: LENR, Rossi and the ECAT Thread pt 5

Unread postby diemos » Thu 19 Nov 2020, 23:36:38

mousepad wrote:The most complex logic thought they can form is "I'm hungry therefore I must eat".


Most people's thinking doesn't go beyond, "I don't want this to be true, so it's not."
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Re: LENR, Rossi and the ECAT Thread pt 5

Unread postby Tanada » Fri 20 Nov 2020, 11:02:15

diemos wrote:
mousepad wrote:The most complex logic thought they can form is "I'm hungry therefore I must eat".


Most people's thinking doesn't go beyond, "I don't want this to be true, so it's not."


That is a sad and sorry truth!

Most of the reason this thread has never been permanently locked is because I admit I don't know everything and if someone does actually invent a cold fusion like energy source there are a long string of arguments about its implications on this thread. It is pretty clear after so many years that Rossi hasn't got anything. If he did he could have moved to some remote town, built a few of his devices and gotten the locals interested in cheap energy and got himself a reputation as a successful mad scientist. Instead he pops up in the fringe media from time to time showing what would be quite fascinating demonstrations if they could be verified as authentic and making grand claims about how he is being stifled. Real inventors do stuff, they don't just constantly ask for donations to get to the "next step".
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Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
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Re: LENR, Rossi and the ECAT Thread pt 5

Unread postby mousepad » Fri 20 Nov 2020, 11:18:07

diemos wrote:
Most people's thinking doesn't go beyond, "I don't want this to be true, so it's not."


Including scientists. Be careful when claiming to hold the truth while dismissing the other man's truth.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegory_of_the_cave
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Re: LENR, Rossi and the ECAT Thread pt 5

Unread postby diemos » Fri 20 Nov 2020, 11:41:20

mousepad wrote:Be careful when claiming to hold the truth while dismissing the other man's truth.


There is no other man's truth.

Ideas either match the physical world or they do not. If they do not they are not correct.
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Re: LENR, Rossi and the ECAT Thread pt 5

Unread postby mousepad » Fri 20 Nov 2020, 11:55:29

diemos wrote:
mousepad wrote:Be careful when claiming to hold the truth while dismissing the other man's truth.


There is no other man's truth.

Ideas either match the physical world or they do not. If they do not they are not correct.


:-) If it were just so easy!
Since you cannot measure the physical world to total accuracy you won't be able to determine if you're correct or not.
Hence you have to assume. And once you assume, another man makes other assumption and whoops, you have disagreements.
But maybe i'm wrong and you are in fact the only and true beholder of the truth. Are you? If yes then you're underpaid, let me tell you that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncertainty_principle
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Re: LENR, Rossi and the ECAT Thread pt 5

Unread postby diemos » Fri 20 Nov 2020, 12:08:54

mousepad wrote::-) If it were just so easy!


We can use our understanding to design and build gizmos that actually work.

It's easy to believe anything you want if you never have to make anything actually work.
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Re: LENR, Rossi and the ECAT Thread pt 5

Unread postby evilgenius » Sun 13 Dec 2020, 11:48:53

diemos wrote:
mousepad wrote:The conclusions you're arriving at, man. Just because I don't believe in science to make life better, I'm not a doomer. I believe science is a very good tool to send a man to the moon. But science fails badly in things that matter to me. For example science can't make me happy or make me laugh. That's why I don't believe in science.


The correct term for science is "creationism", and I study the creation to learn its nature because it is the only source of knowledge available that I can be certain does not come from man. It may be subtle and complicated but I know it never lies to me. I might lie to myself about its nature but it always is, what it is.

But if you're looking for something to "believe in" to make you happy then you should stick to religion. The creation may be vast, ancient and wondrous, a harmony of mathematical perfection, but it has many aspects that you are not going to like ... at all.

I just read a story about the physicist David Bohm. It quoted him saying some things about whether there ought to be a structure underneath quantum physics. How mathematics answers so many questions suggest there is, but that isn't proof enough. Beyond that, there are all kinds of spiritual reasons to insist there is a structure. It seems Germain to what you are saying.
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Re: LENR, Rossi and the ECAT Thread pt 5

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Sun 13 Dec 2020, 18:55:35

evilgenius wrote:
diemos wrote:
mousepad wrote:The conclusions you're arriving at, man. Just because I don't believe in science to make life better, I'm not a doomer. I believe science is a very good tool to send a man to the moon. But science fails badly in things that matter to me. For example science can't make me happy or make me laugh. That's why I don't believe in science.


The correct term for science is "creationism", and I study the creation to learn its nature because it is the only source of knowledge available that I can be certain does not come from man. It may be subtle and complicated but I know it never lies to me. I might lie to myself about its nature but it always is, what it is.

But if you're looking for something to "believe in" to make you happy then you should stick to religion. The creation may be vast, ancient and wondrous, a harmony of mathematical perfection, but it has many aspects that you are not going to like ... at all.

I just read a story about the physicist David Bohm. It quoted him saying some things about whether there ought to be a structure underneath quantum physics. How mathematics answers so many questions suggest there is, but that isn't proof enough. Beyond that, there are all kinds of spiritual reasons to insist there is a structure. It seems Germain to what you are saying.

Yet you can't spell germane nor proofread. But of course "seems" (re being emotional) trumps science, if you and endless Trump fact free voters wish it were so. :roll:

Spiritual. When there is objective evidence for the magical sky people, MUCH LESS, evidence to their credibility re quantum physics, be sure and let us know.

In the real world, no matter how much flat earthers, anti-vaxxers, and those who claim that science can tell us nothing about AGW and Covid-19 claim their favorite RANDOM blog says so, the more they post nonsense, over time, the less credible they get.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: LENR, Rossi and the ECAT Thread pt 5

Unread postby EnergyUnlimited » Mon 14 Dec 2020, 05:30:13

Outcast_Searcher wrote:In the real world, no matter how much flat earthers, anti-vaxxers, and those who claim that science can tell us nothing about AGW and Covid-19 claim their favorite RANDOM blog says so, the more they post nonsense, over time, the less credible they get.

While getting old many of us (including you) are getting decoupled from reality.
Actually between general public these people are getting more credibility while the credibility of mainstream science goes down the drain.
They are already trumping official narration in most of aspects of everyday life. Alex Jones is much more trusted these days than any scientist you can name.
And look on all these magazines for women filled with advices to keep healthy by placing copper wires or conkers under the bed to keep negative energies away.
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Re: LENR, Rossi and the ECAT Thread pt 5

Unread postby diemos » Sun 28 Feb 2021, 22:05:35

EnergyUnlimited wrote:Actually between general public these people are getting more credibility while the credibility of mainstream science goes down the drain.
They are already trumping official narration in most of aspects of everyday life. Alex Jones is much more trusted these days than any scientist you can name.
And look on all these magazines for women filled with advices to keep healthy by placing copper wires or conkers under the bed to keep negative energies away.


Because they take for granted the world they live in. It'll be fascinating to watch them try to repair a broken MRI machine by anointing it with essential oils. Hint: It won't work.

Idiocracy: here we come.
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Re: LENR, Rossi and the ECAT Thread pt 5

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Mon 01 Mar 2021, 22:07:12

EnergyUnlimited wrote:
Outcast_Searcher wrote:In the real world, no matter how much flat earthers, anti-vaxxers, and those who claim that science can tell us nothing about AGW and Covid-19 claim their favorite RANDOM blog says so, the more they post nonsense, over time, the less credible they get.

While getting old many of us (including you) are getting decoupled from reality.
Actually between general public these people are getting more credibility while the credibility of mainstream science goes down the drain.
They are already trumping official narration in most of aspects of everyday life. Alex Jones is much more trusted these days than any scientist you can name.
And look on all these magazines for women filled with advices to keep healthy by placing copper wires or conkers under the bed to keep negative energies away.

So by believing in science vs. nonsense makes me "decoupled from reality"? So by not being a believer in Trump nonsense makes me "decoupled" from reality"?

Whenever I take a peek at your posts, I'm reminded of why I put you on my ignore list.

Big hint: Just because nonsense is currently popular with the ignorant, does NOT make it credible.

Does calling advice "advices" make you credible?

I'll sign up for not saying "scientifically credible" vs. just credible, since if credibility becomes a popularity contest among the clueless, we're well and truly done as a society.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: LENR, Rossi and the ECAT Thread pt 5

Unread postby Keith_McClary » Mon 24 May 2021, 23:31:22

Rossi Announces E-Cat SKLed to be Powered from 12 Volt Battery Source (as well as AC)
Posted on April 14, 2021 • 306 Comments
Image
Andrea Rossi has announced on the Journal of Nuclear Physics an upgrade to the E-Cat SKLed that he plans to introduce in November. The SKLed will not only be able to be powered from a regular AC socket, but will also be able to powered by a 12 V DC power source from a battery.

From the JONP:

Andrea Rossi
April 13, 2021 at 9:01 AM
Dan Galburt (second answer of today):
Our team worked today on your suggestion: all the the Ecat SKLed will be able to be powered either with their plug connected to the grid at 110-240 V, 50-60 Hz, OR with any 12 V battery, and it will be the undisputed lamp with the longest autonomy of the world, at parity of battery Ah.
You gave us a great idea. We got it. The DC connection will poke out from the rear face of the Ecat’s body.
Warm Regards,
A.R.

He explained to me that “The 2 cables (red and black) will be terminalized on the back face of the body.”
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Re: LENR, Rossi and the ECAT Thread pt 5

Unread postby Keith_McClary » Tue 25 May 2021, 00:07:11

FredZ777 writes:

Here is Rossi's insane confession that "cold fusion does not exist." From his rossilivecat.com blog:

Giovanni
August 22, 2019 at 9:41 AM
Dr Rossi,
Wpuld [sic] you consider your effect a form of “cold fusion”?
Giovanni

Andrea Rossi
August 22, 2019 at 2:11 PM
Giovanni:
No. I arrived to think that cold fusion does not exist.

At this point of our theoretical and technological development, after 20 years of hard work, we think that cold fusion does not exist. I am sorry, but I feel us lightyears far from the LENR community, to which we, actually, never belonged. My effect depends on atom’s potentials that have nothing to do with cold fusion or LENR. This, by the way, is clearly put in evidence in my paper here: http://www.researchgate.net/publication/330601653 E-Cat SK anf [sic] long range particle interactions. One thing I must admit, though: my work initiated inspired by the idea of cold fusion launched by F&P and my former works started from that theory, but after tens of thousands of experiments and twenty years of study I changed idea. Like Christopher Columbus, who thought he had reached India, but eventually it has been discovered it was America. We reached important results and much more important we are close to reach with a technology that with cold fusion has nothing to do. As a matter of fact, we do not have any fusion.
Warm Regards,
A.R.

His new "zero-point energy" "technology" (i.e., scam) is purportedly explained in this two-year-old non-refereed preprint on ReseachGate (RG): https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... teractions

Somehow this bizarre quantum physics preprint is supposed to explain how his Magic Lamp works, even though the preprint describes what seems to be a space heater.

This arcane preprint has over 63,000 Reads and 660 Recommendations on RG, so I'm somewhat surprised that everyone hasn't already read it. Unless of course, these stats are bogus, like everything else associated with "Doc" Rossi.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/dodgy-tec ... msg3557835
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Re: LENR, Rossi and the ECAT Thread pt 5

Unread postby diemos » Thu 27 May 2021, 08:57:09

Keith_McClary wrote:all the the Ecat SKLed will be able to be powered either with their plug connected to the grid at 110-240 V, 50-60 Hz, OR with any 12 V battery, and it will be the undisputed lamp with the longest autonomy of the world, at parity of battery Ah.


They've solved the problem of free energy!

All you have to do is plug it into the wall.
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Re: LENR, Rossi and the ECAT Thread pt 5

Unread postby diemos » Mon 11 Oct 2021, 21:01:06

10 years ago the LENR age began when Rossi demonstrated his E-cat to the world. Since then the world has been trans ...oh dear, why am I doing this for the 10th time?

In the hopes that the next time someone comes around selling magic beans that violate the laws of physics you'll remember the last time, and that the magic beans turned out to be regular beans being pushed by a conman/idiot.
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Re: LENR, Rossi and the ECAT Thread pt 5

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Tue 12 Oct 2021, 11:08:06

diemos wrote:10 years ago the LENR age began when Rossi demonstrated his E-cat to the world. Since then the world has been trans ...oh dear, why am I doing this for the 10th time?

In the hopes that the next time someone comes around selling magic beans that violate the laws of physics you'll remember the last time, and that the magic beans turned out to be regular beans being pushed by a conman/idiot.

A noble goal. However, given the proportion of humanity that strongly believes in various nonsensical conspiracy theories despite any meaningful evidence, I think magic beans mixed with the proper level of "sauce" will continue to sell, all too often.

For example, the almost religious fervor given to crypto-currencies as some sort of magical pathway to solving intractable financial problems and making huge numbers of investors "rich, with a high degree of certainty" seems a lot like a magic bean example to me, but only time will tell.

(And meanwhile, I see a CNBC article today about the fiasco at Coinbase, as they deny any hacking of their customer accounts could possibly be their fault). With all the online trading of that stuff going on and all the hacking going on and no rules, regulations, remedies for account holders, etc, what could POSSIBLY go wrong with that? :idea:

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/12/coinbas ... pport.html
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: LENR, Rossi and the ECAT Thread pt 5

Unread postby diemos » Tue 12 Oct 2021, 12:48:04

Outcast_Searcher wrote:A noble goal.


To push back the darkness, and stand on the wall, so that the tribe has a place to live in the light is the eternal battle of civilization. It ebbs and flows, but it is never won. However, giving up always guarantees defeat. And it's always disheartening for your fellow citizens to be actively trying to tear down the wall while you're standing on it.

It's heartwarming to be able to sit back and watch as the great unwashed discover that reality doesn't care about their beliefs or their facebook memes and is going to have its way with their lungs regardless of what they believe.

"Welcome to costco. I love you."
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