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It's time to choke off the supply of fossil-death-fuels

Re: It's time to choke off the supply of fossil-death-fuels

Unread postby baha » Wed 25 Apr 2018, 06:57:30

You're both right. I saw the reality that the younger generation was taking my edge in IT. There were hundreds of jobs but thousands of applicants. So I career shifted myself into solar power. Just like KJ is asking. I spent $2500 on training classes before I ever got a job...and then got one in four days.

But I also felt the emptiness that IT had left me with and decided to pursue something that I felt strongly about. The combination of a fast developing field and a 'push my way in attitude' resulted in success :)

I tell my wife all the time...if you can find a job where you enjoy the people and the mission, success is easy :)
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Re: It's time to choke off the supply of fossil-death-fuels

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Wed 25 Apr 2018, 12:18:47

KaiserJeep wrote:Niether should you. The purpose of automation is to make goods and services cheaper to all. That way, more people can buy more stuff.

The person who hangs around a dead town with no jobs is a loser.

The person who does not get retrained for another job is a loser.

The person who insists that what he wants to do is a job that no longer exists is a loser.

Here's a clue: They call it work for a reason. They are going to pay you to do something they need done. It might not be what you want to do, or where you want to do it, or in the company of people you want to associate with. You are pretty lucky if you have any of those things.

You take the money and do the job, or quit and please yourself. It's not slavery, you have a choice.

Technological change continues, and always will. Be flexible and willing to learn, or live on the dole, or become homeless, those are the choices.

Everything you say is true.

IMO, however, at least in much of the corporate world, at least in the US, there has been one BIG change re dealing with managing a career since the 90's.

Prior to about the mid-90's many corporations wanted to have and keep good, reliable employees throughout their careers. Thus, they would help them in their careers with guidance, encouragement, and most importantly formal training for better jobs, keeping up with technology, etc.

Much of that went away with MANY old-line companies as the goal of saving money in the short term became number one. So for training, there was little, if any. People were told to take classes on their own dime while on vacation, if they wanted training. Encouragement and guidance? As far as careers, that pretty much went away too.

So you're right -- and the responsibility does rest ultimately with the individual. But it is much more difficult as things are now, at least for the vast majority of US people who were fortunate enough to work for relatively paternalistic corporations before roughly 1995.

Again, the book "White Collar Sweatshop" does a decent job documenting much of the scale and the nature of the way things changed for roughly 80 million white collar workers around that time.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: It's time to choke off the supply of fossil-death-fuels

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Wed 25 Apr 2018, 12:45:55

You are entirely correct. Perks like medical insurance, company picnics, corporate housing, and so forth entered the American job market during WW2 when there was an acute labor shortage. They did not exist prior to that point, and never existed in places where there was never a labor shortage.

My career spanned the late 1970's to 2015 when I retired. Although I saw some of what you describe, there are major exceptions such as Silicon Valley where the starting salary for a new EE for example is likely to be $100,000 or more, and after a few years if you are not making $200,000, you are probably no longer in demand in your specialty.

The dark side of this red hot labor market is housing costs:
Image
The asking price for this burnt shell of a house was $799,000. The actual sale after a bidding war was $900,000+.
https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/04/19/burned-shell-of-a-home-sells-for-more-than-900000-in-san-jose/
Image
Although condemned and uninhabitable, this Fremont home sold for $1.2M.
https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/04/16/condemned-house-sells-for-1-2-million-fremont/
There are a few other markets where high tech is still driving the economy. Austin Texas and the Greenwhich Connecticut area are mini Silicon Valley tech centers, not so extreme.

As for employee "perks" in this area, I worked for a company that sweetened their regular and generous vacation policy with an extra paid six week "sabbatical" every four years, to encourage employees to reflect upon their career goals and possibly make changes to such. Game rooms, luxurious workout centers, subsidized mass transit, gourmet cafeteria cuisine with professional chefs, personal assistants to fetch your dry cleaning and stand in line at the DMV, etc. are common.

Anything goes, as long as it increases productivity. High Tech profits pay for it all, and jobs are available here.

But the first major expense you face is paying off your college loans, because you are not getting a job here without a degree and talent for hardware or software design. I was fortunate to only owe $16,000 when I got my BSEE degree, I lived the frugal lifestyle paid for by the original GI Bill, at $300/month. Then I used the loan entitlement from the VA to buy my first home. But I "paid" for those benefits with 42 months in uniform, and was so not fond of that lifestyle that I volunteered for isolated service in the Arctic in return for a 6-month reduction in my actice duty time.

I paid for two more college degrees for the wife and kid, while working. The wife is now deeply immersed in the career track mentality of Silicon Valley, she changes the subject when I talk of moving. Then I cheat by reminding her that she can provide a Grandmother's loving childcare while her daughter works to allow them to buy their own home....

I stand to make more than $1M profit on the home I bought for less than $124K in 1986. But the high tech lifestyle is also full of stress. Not to mention, I was moved to new locations three times in my career, which came at a considerable personal cost.

TANSTAAFL.
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Resistance is Futile, YOU will be Assimilated.

Warning: Messages timestamped before April 1, 2016, 06:00 PST were posted by the unmodified human KaiserJeep 1.0
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Re: It's time to choke off the supply of fossil-death-fuels

Unread postby Yonnipun » Wed 25 Apr 2018, 16:35:01

I myself belive that universal basic income is inevitable in the nearest future. There simply will be no job for the average Joe. I also think that without overbreeding control a basic income is a catastrophic failure. Therefore in order to make it work and to stop the overpolulation the basic income should be paid only for them who voluntarily let themselves sterilized.
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Re: It's time to choke off the supply of fossil-death-fuels

Unread postby onlooker » Wed 25 Apr 2018, 16:45:19

Oh my goodness Y, I just wrote something that almost perfectly mirrors what you just state about the economic incentives needed to get people to comply with population controls on the can-collapse-of-global-civ-be-avoided-by-p-a-ehrlich-t67853-140.html#p1394149
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Re: It's time to choke off the supply of fossil-death-fuels

Unread postby onlooker » Fri 25 May 2018, 18:09:36

https://news.un.org/en/story/2018/05/1008732
90 per cent of the planet is breathing in polluted air – World Health Organization
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Re: It's time to choke off the supply of fossil-death-fuels

Unread postby dohboi » Sun 17 Jun 2018, 11:10:24

Besides giving up flying, meat, dairy, and general over-consumption, getting away from car culture is another crucial move:

13 cities that are starting to ban cars


http://www.businessinsider.fr/us/cities ... ban-2017-8

What are towns, cities, counties...doing in your region to encourage biking and pedestrians and to discourage driving?
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Re: It's time to choke off the supply of fossil-death-fuels

Unread postby onlooker » Sun 17 Jun 2018, 11:35:23

"What are towns, cities, counties...doing in your region to encourage biking and pedestrians and to discourage driving?" it is not really my city (live upstate) but NY city has really set up extensive public bikes called "Citibike". for a small fee, you can ride for a certain period of time. That is something the traffic congested city needed
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Re: It's time to choke off the supply of fossil-death-fuels

Unread postby dohboi » Sun 17 Jun 2018, 21:31:23

Yes, this kind of thing seems to have spread to many cities. A friend of mine helped set up the system we have here in the Twin Cities, called 'Nice Ride.'

Someone on another blog pointed out this variation on that theme:

https://www.co-bikes.co.uk/

Self-service Electric Bikes! This is in Exeter, UK, but I'm assuming other places are going this route, too, especially where hills are a problem.
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Re: It's time to choke off the supply of fossil-death-fuels

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Sat 23 Jun 2018, 13:33:47

dohboi wrote:Yes, this kind of thing seems to have spread to many cities. A friend of mine helped set up the system we have here in the Twin Cities, called 'Nice Ride.'

Someone on another blog pointed out this variation on that theme:

https://www.co-bikes.co.uk/

Self-service Electric Bikes! This is in Exeter, UK, but I'm assuming other places are going this route, too, especially where hills are a problem.

Well, Nice Ride sounds great. But the irony of the cold/snowy weather for many months of the year in the Twin Cities doesn't escape me.

So maybe nice, widely available, efficient, well run public transport would be a far better thing for anyone in the US who lives north of, say, Florida, or at least Atlanta.

...

The point I'm making is various isolated efforts are nice, but to make a practical system, some serious thinking and serious resources need to be put in place to BEGIN to make not needing a car a reality.

It's doable in a relative handful of big cities in the US. Elsewhere, not so much, at least as things currently stand.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: It's time to choke off the supply of fossil-death-fuels

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Sat 23 Jun 2018, 13:49:21

Yonnipun wrote:I myself belive that universal basic income is inevitable in the nearest future. There simply will be no job for the average Joe. I also think that without overbreeding control a basic income is a catastrophic failure. Therefore in order to make it work and to stop the overpolulation the basic income should be paid only for them who voluntarily let themselves sterilized.

I'll agree with you here. I'll add that the logical way to deal with that and to pay for it, IMO, would be through a "robot tax". Defining "robot" and the magnitude of the tax in the face of technology would be critical, and fraught with political gamesmanship though.

The biggest problems I see re accomplishing that in the US are cultural problems.

1). The idea of "giving" a lot of people a basic income even if they don't work will be fought HARD by many, via the concept of fairness.

As evidence, when I've tried to discuss this on this site, I almost always run into mega-resistance. Oh, and that's mild compared to the reactions to my idea of a robot tax, BTW. And of course, since not having that makes paying for it a problem -- then the opposition says, thus it can't be done, of course.

Despite the fact that we already have a LOT, comprising over a $trillion in US social programs, with the projected price of such programs to rise FAR faster than inflation, and no way to realistically pay for them besides more irresponsible borrowing. But hey, we're good at ignoring big problems in the US. After all, there are elections to win and money to spend!

2). While I agree completely in the practicality of your idea re the birth rate, especially for people who have agreed to be taken care of by the state -- GOOD LUCK getting a huge proportion of people to accept that without a big fight. For a wide variety of reasons, IMO.

...

And of course, ironically, with the current US unemployment rate reaching nearly 50 year lows, that's very likely to help push the concerns / perceived need to deal with the whole problem back. (Not in our face, we don't tend to do much).

So, IMO, not until we see giant swathes of suddenly doomed jobs in things like fast food, driving, retail, etc. become truly obsolete, very fast, with the problem clearly escalating severely, are we likely to seriously "begin to commence" to see about dealing with the problem.

I'd rather be trying various experiments NOW, learn all we can, and try to approach the problem intelligently and reasonably affordably. OTOH, I don't want to be re-elected to political office, so there's that.

At the end of the day as a white guy who earned a measure of financial independence by 40 years of hard work, I'm sure that "white racists" and "the rich" will be blamed for the problem down the road, so there's always that to look forward to. :roll:
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: It's time to choke off the supply of fossil-death-fuels

Unread postby pstarr » Sat 23 Jun 2018, 14:08:07

Electric bikes? Laughable

Electric trains? No doable, not in the face of American resistance to good government, public transportation . . . and even a hint of commonweal ie socialism. A viable solar economy requires truly democratic institutions, an educated and free people, and a consensual process. The Military Industrial conspiracy would need to be crushed. Ha ha ha ha.

Not possible in the United States. We are captive. And in awe of our Masters.
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Re: It's time to choke off the supply of fossil-death-fuels

Unread postby onlooker » Sat 23 Jun 2018, 14:23:33

pstarr wrote:Electric bikes? Laughable

Electric trains? No doable, not in the face of American resistance to good government, public transportation . . . and even a hint of commonweal ie socialism. A viable solar economy requires truly democratic institutions, an educated and free people, and a consensual process. The Military Industrial conspiracy would need to be crushed. Ha ha ha ha.

Not possible in the United States. We are captive. And in awe of our Masters.

Bull's eye or is it Denier"s eye :lol:
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Re: It's time to choke off the supply of fossil-death-fuels

Unread postby pstarr » Sat 23 Jun 2018, 15:19:21

onlooker wrote:
pstarr wrote:Electric bikes? Laughable

Electric trains? No doable, not in the face of American resistance to good government, public transportation . . . and even a hint of commonweal ie socialism. A viable solar economy requires truly democratic institutions, an educated and free people, and a consensual process. The Military Industrial conspiracy would need to be crushed. Ha ha ha ha.

Not possible in the United States. We are captive. And in awe of our Masters.

Bull's eye or is it Denier"s eye :lol:

I own an electric bike. It sits in the garage gathering dust, spider webs and even creepier stuff. Twin Cities? ha ha ha. It doesn't even work here in Sunny Warm Happy California. Too much damn rain. Too many damn hills. Too many craxy monster trucks on the road.

It is sooooo toooooooo late to do the right thing. We'd would need to have drilled light-rail through the burbs, subways under cities, and electric rail lines across farmers fields. Is that going to happen in Happy Motoring Country? ha ha ha ha ha

the sad answer is no :cry:
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Re: It's time to choke off the supply of fossil-death-fuels

Unread postby onlooker » Sat 23 Jun 2018, 15:34:01

Yes, we would basically need in haste to convert into a totalitarian State, where everbody had their marching orders. Chances of that happening in the US are zero to nothing. Heck, I don"t even think in China it would work. They already have a taste for freedom and the happy motoring lifestyle :twisted:
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