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Is this product, Nansulate, legit?

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Re: Is this product, Nansulate, legit?

Unread postby Nefarious » Mon 08 Dec 2008, 16:12:55

From another forum Raging Bull

wizard69 Got my bank statement and they charged me for my epx back on june 9 and all I have is a promise to ship b/4 july 1.. Wonder how far into the "early" 3rd q we will be before they acknowledge the petrobas job is shipping or not..Hows that nano shield coming? Are the monthly shipments being made to turkey? So many things they could keep us updated about and instead we get fluff....They are wearing be down..


wizard69 Now they can't find my order for the epx, starting to look more and more like "the gang that can't shoot straight". Going to get me the shipping number when they find it. lol


wizard We're getting closer, recieved Part A of my EPX, kinda tuff to do my experiments with only half an epoxy..good thing I have a sense of humor.


sandbath Oh, brother. lol! Mom-n-Pop strikes again.


wizard Started my testing of the EPX. Test 1 - Filled new paint can with water and heated with an immersion heater. after 20 minutes, outside surfact temp of can was 190 degrees F. Can now coated with about 1/8 "

(could not get thicker, product slides on round or vertical surface) Test 2 - Flat metal sheet (approx 24 ga) layed directly on top of heat lamp. After 20 minutes, surface temp was 222 degrees F. Sheet coated with approx 1/4" of epx.. Will retest after some curing time.. Any guesses on temp on test??????


sandbath Wiz, My guess is the treated metal sheet will be around 100F, as compared to the 222F before treating it with EPX.


wizard It was around 160 degrees, that was with less than 24 hrs curing time. I think I will put another coat on and let it set for awile, wasn't quite 1/4" thick after setting. BTW, talked to FC about mixing the epx since they didn't include any instructions. Asked about Petrobas and got the impression that they were not shipping until after the meeting at intk's lab. (in august) Also, you are correct about DEBA shipment. Comments on EPX- (1) Label is terrible- fine print on edges so small barely readable. (2) Thinner than I expected, runs on vert or round surfaces, won't work well on piping and tanks, the most obvious use. To be fair, maybe the instructions suggest letting it set for awile before application, will let you know when I recieve them. I put it on with a 2" short brissle throw away brush. No trowel needed.


wizard69 Number 3 and its a biggee - The mixture rate is 4 parts A to 1 part B so a "2 gallon kit" only contains 1 1/4 gallons of actual product. Don't think that will fly with the customer too well. The shipment I received came in - Part A in a 2 gal plastic bucket and part B in a 1 gal metal can so this can be recified by just adding product in the correct ratio.


sandbath wizard, You ordwered EPX-4, not EPX-K, and the EPX-4 was runnier than you expected? You sure you mixed it separately very well as suggested, and then together very well as suggested, then waited 10 minutes after mixing them together? If you did, then I'm concerned because if it won't stay on piping and tanks then it won't sell IMO.

You can get the application instructions from the website, no need to receive them from the company.


wizard69Second test on the flat sheet, after 4 days of cure, about 3/8" thickness, the temp reached 160 degrees after about 20 minutes. About a 62 degree drop.


sandbath About a 27% temp reduction. Is there any way you can up the temp of your experiment to see if greater % temp savings is achieved, more similar to the Kolorgen PR'd demonstration? So far, your experiment doesn't sound like it performed similarly to the Kolorgen one. But I believe higher temps mean greater effectiveness?


wizard69Since they screwed up my first order, they promised to send me an extra 2 gal kit of epx. recieved the Part A and not the Part B again. Man, I hope they do a better job with their real customers..They just keep wearing me down. Wish the stock would get back in the 20's, believe I would peel most of my holdings.


Now brittleness

wizard69FC passed my call to IR and they called me back this am. Info I got as follows: Should be a SH update B/4 eoy; audit now scheduled for Jan; DEBA shipment in Jan, SB has tentative shipping schedule; Petrabas still viable project; Bee protect recieving lots of interest. Pretty much same BS as usual. I requested they pass to SB to put out a monthly update and emphasized SH disappointment in their constant NON follow up of previosly announced projects. He said that is a common complaint from SH and he had mentioned to SB before. Also asked about the EPX being so brittle after curing and he thought they had tweaked the formula. My guess the reason for some of the delay of the EPX projects.


sandbathwizard, Thanks. Sounds like they told you the same generic stuff I get when I ask and plead for updates. It's very unprofessional to leave us hanging so often on so many "important" milestones. We all deserve at least a quartely CEO update so that we can hear from the head honcho himself why previously announcements aren't happening as stated. I'm sure it's no fun to give those kinds of updates, but I don't care. If they can get people excited, then they can also give us reality re: why things don't happen.

I heard the reformulation, or whatever they did, was was so that folks wouldn't leave so much Part B of the EPX in the container. Something about that making the mixture not perform as it would if they'd gotten all of the Part B out of the contaier. I don't know if that has anything to do with correcting a brittleness issue or not, but I sure am concerned about whether Petrobras is going to "certify" it.

Too many generic updates f epx.


Company sounds like it doesn't have its sh*t together. Product doesn't sound much better
'By the pricking of my thumbs,Something Wicked This Way Comes."
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Re: Is this product, Nansulate, legit?

Unread postby sandshark » Mon 08 Dec 2008, 16:27:54

Nefarious, Here we go again...

First, you were copying posts about the new EPX quick-cure epoxy product. It's not for residences. The Home Protect Clear Coat (and white) are for houses.

Now, on to some info which was already posted but you obviously haven't looked at...

Residential Testimonials (for what it's worth):
http://www.nansulate.com/nansulate_resi ... onials.htm

Case Studies (READ especially page 8 - 10 & 22 - 23) but the whole document is good info, so check it out. The case study testing & comparison data is worth LOOKING at, since you are picking and choosing your viewpoint and internet posts. Let me know if you want more information. By the way, K value is a better benchmark of performance as it takes into account more than 1 type of heat transfer (which is the shortfall with R value - ask an engineer).

http://www.industrial-nanotech.com/pdf/ ... tudies.pdf

p.s. How the company is run, and the sentiment of shareholders is NOT the subject of this thread. Look at the info available re: product, case study, etc, then comment.
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Re: Is this product, Nansulate, legit?

Unread postby sandshark » Mon 08 Dec 2008, 16:36:06

Nefarious, do yourself a favor and do a search for Nansulate on youtube.com. Then watch the demonstration videos.

It works the same way on a house, obviously. Heat transfer physics is heat transfer physics. Saving a few degrees, and achieving greater temperature stability, can save a homeowner $ due to less furnace or A/C usage. That's the bottom line.

If you ever try it (I don't care if you do or don't try it), then your argument will cease. You see, you are arguing but have never tested or used the product. I have. So if we bet, it would be a sucker's bet with me as the winner. That's just how it is. My viewpoint is more informed than yours is, because I have seen what it does first-hand.
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Re: Is this product, Nansulate, legit?

Unread postby sandshark » Mon 08 Dec 2008, 16:42:31

Nefarious, Since you claim there aren't any home/residence applications for Nansulate...

Think BuilderNews Magazine would give Nansulate a Best Product 2008 award in the Energy Efficiency category if it didn't work on homes?
http://www.buildernewsmag.com/releases.shtml/15

And while we're at it, would Qualified Remodeler Magazine give Nansulate #43 on the Top 100 Products of 2008?
http://www.qualifiedremodeler.com/print ... 60-/1$1067

Sorry, my mistake. I had forgotten that publications such as those always smudge their own reputations by endorsing products which don't work (sarcasm).
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Re: Is this product, Nansulate, legit?

Unread postby KnoxMountain » Mon 08 Dec 2008, 17:19:33

sandshark wrote:Nefarious, Since you claim there aren't any home/residence applications for Nansulate...

Think BuilderNews Magazine would give Nansulate a Best Product 2008 award in the Energy Efficiency category if it didn't work on homes?
http://www.buildernewsmag.com/releases.shtml/15

And while we're at it, would Qualified Remodeler Magazine give Nansulate #43 on the Top 100 Products of 2008?
http://www.qualifiedremodeler.com/print ... 60-/1$1067

Sorry, my mistake. I had forgotten that publications such as those always smudge their own reputations by endorsing products which don't work (sarcasm).


Dear Sandshark: Thank you for adding this factual information. As you are aware, you could add a lot more for the sake of this argument "is Nanotech legit". Many here, however, appear to be unable to grasp even what one has experienced first hand. Also, those same individuals appear unwilling to take your first-hand experience and give it a shot. Unfortunate, but their loss, not ours.
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Re: Is this product, Nansulate, legit?

Unread postby Nefarious » Mon 08 Dec 2008, 18:06:01

Ok I will bite. If you want to send me a gallon I will test it.
I have over 18+ years in the marine industrial coatings industry
I am a NACE certified inspector
I work for a global industry leader in coatings for the offshore petroleum industry and perlite insulation for LNG storage tanks
Drop me a pm if your intrested in where to send the epoxy product, must have all msds and product data sheets as well.
I will compare it to other epoxies that are used as industry standards
Interseal 670
Carbogaurd 893
Amercoat 385
'By the pricking of my thumbs,Something Wicked This Way Comes."
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Re: Is this product, Nansulate, legit?

Unread postby sandshark » Mon 08 Dec 2008, 18:41:24

Nefarious, Good deal. But you're talking about the epoxy product (the non-residential one) and I'm not. The EPX is way more expensive for me to send you a gallon, and there's honestly nothing in this for me (except pride).

But the catch is... I haven't tried the EPX (as you should have read - I was talking about Home Protect Clear Coat), since I don't own a pipeline or factory. haha! But I'm still tempted to consider doing it since you are willing.

If I spend that kind of $$ on a stranger, simply for the sake of a discussion thread, you will do a controlled experiment on it? Or, in what manner will you evaluate it?

Right now, re: EPX, all I can do is take the company's word that it works (I'm not vouching for it since I haven't touched it myself). What do you think, should we try to do this? I'll PM you.
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Re: Is this product, Nansulate, legit?

Unread postby kolm » Tue 09 Dec 2008, 05:17:38

sandshark wrote:Nefarious, Since you claim there aren't any home/residence applications for Nansulate...

Think BuilderNews Magazine would give Nansulate a Best Product 2008 award in the Energy Efficiency category if it didn't work on homes?
http://www.buildernewsmag.com/releases.shtml/15

And while we're at it, would Qualified Remodeler Magazine give Nansulate #43 on the Top 100 Products of 2008?
http://www.qualifiedremodeler.com/print ... 60-/1$1067


Absolutely. BTST with other products. The public will have forgotten it within four weeks.

I'll try for the last time to explain the majority's apparent stance to you, maybe I was not really clear:

Even if we believe everything they claim on face value, this paint would, in the very best possible scenario, provide less insulation than 2.5cm of plywood, and that means it would provide an extremely small and practically worthless amount of insulation, for an outrageous cost. It makes no economical sense to do that if alternatives are present, and it might not even make sense if there are no alternatives (one would need to calculate the costs).

There might be some configurations where this kind of product could actually make sense. Home insulation, in the absolute majority of cases (ignoring the "A house was built by idiots, I bought it/moved in because I didn't care about the non-existent insulation, now suddenly I do care a little, but not enough to accept that any serious insulation will change 'the look' of a building" section), definitely is none of it, and the fact that the company promotes this as a central application makes me very suspicious on its ethical values.
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Re: Is this product, Nansulate, legit?

Unread postby sandshark » Tue 09 Dec 2008, 08:54:38

Kolm

There is a very strong chance that you're just outright wrong (including your plywood stance). In any case, we may have a completely unbiased test performed here shortly.

But I have to point out... you continually fail to recognize that not every application allows putting plywood (or any other) material over the top of what already exists (without major cost or manpower). And the fact is, there ARE a lot of homes which were inadequately insulated. That is a fact, so get used to it. Not to mention, traditional insulation's effectiveness does decrease over time with compression and/or moisture. Is anyone saying this product is called for in every instance of a homeowner wanting more insulation? NO! For the 10th time! (haha!) But is it effective as advertised? YES, I believe it is because it impressed me when I tried it.

So, you are set in your views. That's alright. But it does not make you correct. You are simply one who won't accept or believe it unless the product makes it into mainstream usage. That's fair enough. That's how it works when a new product tries to penetrate a marketplace. Will it happen? Who knows. But at least you are putting thought into your comments, so thanks for that.
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Re: Is this product, Nansulate, legit?

Unread postby kolm » Tue 09 Dec 2008, 09:57:06

sandshark wrote:Kolm

There is a very strong chance that you're just outright wrong (including your plywood stance).


This seems only possible if

(a) the laws of thermodynamics are wrong, or basic arithmetics is inconsistent,

(b) the product has a way lower thermal conductivity than the company advertised, or

(c) I made an error in my calculations.

I have some faith in (a) not to happen, I can't figure why (b) should've happened, and nobody pointed out anything in the direction of (c). So I shall wait and see but not really expect anything.

Let's suspend this thread for the time being, I think we won't progress further at this point.
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Re: Is this product, Nansulate, legit?

Unread postby sandshark » Tue 09 Dec 2008, 10:04:30

Kolm, Agreed the thread isn't productive anymore. Info is being ignored, and/or we are disagreeing on the subjective matters. The fact that the product is selling, although not widely, is a clue to me that it's legit as claimed (for homeowners included - quite a bit of Home Protect has been selling).

But you've been given the K value already. Did you miss it? Hydro-NM-Oxide (see the patent for what that is) has a K of .017, and the clear coat product ends up curing to 70% Hydro-NM-Oxide in composition. So maybe that makes the overall around .03 as a K? I am not exactly sure on that. In any case, it's pretty low (the lower the K, the better it blocks heat transfer).

I know the point you're trying to make, and I understand your logic. But let me make it as simple as possible... I did mention this already, but only as a small comment so you may have missed it. I have a copper pipe coming out of my hot water heater. It was hot to the touch. Not enough to burn me, but definitely uncomfortable to touch. I put Nansulate Home Protect Clear Coat on it. Now, it's warm to the touch and not uncomfortable to keep my hand on it. Is that just in my head?? I highly doubt it. That is a very good layman's example. Same effect happens when you apply it to a wall or ceiling, re: less heat transfer.
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Re: Is this product, Nansulate, legit?

Unread postby kolm » Tue 09 Dec 2008, 10:15:25

sandshark wrote:But you've been given the K value already. Did you miss it?


Are you kidding me? I based my whole assessment on it and explicitly wrote so several times.
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Re: Is this product, Nansulate, legit?

Unread postby sandshark » Tue 09 Dec 2008, 10:22:48

Yes, I saw that. Yet, you don't believe there are many home applications which are a better value proposition, for various practicality reasons, than tearing up a house or changing its look (both of which may turn out to cost more $ or take more manpower which is also a "cost").

So, you simply won't believe it... because you don't want to. You will have to see it on a big-box shelf, or try it yourself, before you believe it. That's Ok.

The fact remains, if a person can justify the cost... this product IS a non-invasive and aesthetically appealing way for a homeowner to expend less $ on heating or cooling. No matter how much insulation already exists. It's not right or needed for every home, but there are countless homes which would benefit from it. Do YOU think it's worth the cost? Well, no, and you never will unless you see a 30%+ reduction in your heating or cooling bills. That's what homeowners are reporting. You won't believe it, and you won't try it, so no worries!

Edit: No matter what you say about cost... the fact is, the product will pay for itself over time (within a couple years or so) as long as it's in a climate which is conducive to needing to save energy on heating/cooling. So essentially, it costs nothing. Just like regular insulation pays for itself via energy savings. The one prime example I can think of where Nansulate is not a feasible solution is when the primary issue with a home is air drafting via large gaps. Small cracks will be filled in by Nansulate as part of its barrier, but large ones will not. In those cases, it would of course block thermal transfer on the surfaces it coats... but major air drafting would continue.
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Re: Is this product, Nansulate, legit?

Unread postby sandshark » Tue 09 Dec 2008, 10:51:08

Kolm

Just a couple anecdotal questions for you...

Would the Australian Govt be involved with Nansulate as a specification for wall construction in one of their housing demonstration projects if it wasn't a decent solution for home insulation?
From that piece of news: "The innovative new home was built by 20*20 Pty. Ltd. within 14 days as part of a Western Australia State Government demonstration housing development. Nansulate(R) PT thermal insulation and corrosion resistance coating has been incorporated into the first display home of a LandCorp alternative housing project in Seville Grove, Western Australia. The deal was finalized by the Company's Australian distributor, Insulwest."
http://www.industrial-nanotech.com/INTK ... 062008.htm

Would PlaceMakers retail chain in New Zealand offer the product if it wasn't feasible for homes? That's New Zealand's Home Depot type of store. They don't carry it in stock at all 55 stores, but if not on the shelves it can be ordered (I was doubtful, so I verified this myself and they even gave me the product SKU #s).

Lowes also offers the product as a special-order, and it was mentioned in a Lowes for Contractors article last year. Not a big deal, but if it wasn't worthwhile then those things may not happen.

** The company also announced yesterday, a 12,000 gallon Nansulate order from a real estate development company in China. Yes, I know it's not true until it's shipped to them, but just an fyi for you. **

Would all this be happening (and more) if this product will be forgotten about in 4 weeks as you suggested? Be objective now, c'mon.

p.s. By the way, I'm enjoying that the discussion has turned to "homes" versus whether the product is legit in general. That means the info available is at least somewhat compelling if not convincing re: the initial subject of the thread.
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Re: Is this product, Nansulate, legit?

Unread postby KnoxMountain » Mon 15 Dec 2008, 16:04:40

Dear Sandshark: Our Customers tried the same thing on their pipes which they had exposed in their labs, and therefore, caused the chemists to have the need to be cautious of it so as not to get burned. We applied the "High Heat" product to their pipes (their pipes were very hot to the touch.) The next day their pipes were ROOM TEMPERATURE! The Chemists could not believe it...and it ended up being the talk of the day there.


sandshark wrote:Kolm, Agreed the thread isn't productive anymore. Info is being ignored, and/or we are disagreeing on the subjective matters. The fact that the product is selling, although not widely, is a clue to me that it's legit as claimed (for homeowners included - quite a bit of Home Protect has been selling).

But you've been given the K value already. Did you miss it? Hydro-NM-Oxide (see the patent for what that is) has a K of .017, and the clear coat product ends up curing to 70% Hydro-NM-Oxide in composition. So maybe that makes the overall around .03 as a K? I am not exactly sure on that. In any case, it's pretty low (the lower the K, the better it blocks heat transfer).

I know the point you're trying to make, and I understand your logic. But let me make it as simple as possible... I did mention this already, but only as a small comment so you may have missed it. I have a copper pipe coming out of my hot water heater. It was hot to the touch. Not enough to burn me, but definitely uncomfortable to touch. I put Nansulate Home Protect Clear Coat on it. Now, it's warm to the touch and not uncomfortable to keep my hand on it. Is that just in my head?? I highly doubt it. That is a very good layman's example. Same effect happens when you apply it to a wall or ceiling, re: less heat transfer.
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Re: Is this product, Nansulate, legit?

Unread postby yeahbut » Mon 15 Dec 2008, 16:27:40

But wait! there's more!...and more...and more. Isn't it about time these guys had to buy some time here along with the Russian bride peddlers, rather than a thread masquerading as an impartial discussion? It may have started with a legit query, but it's well past that IMO.
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Re: Is this product, Nansulate, legit?

Unread postby GoghGoner » Mon 15 Dec 2008, 21:18:08

I coated my car tires with this stuff. OMG!!! I get 40% more fuel efficiency. I think it must reduce friction, however, it takes a couple of miles of braking for the car to stop.
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Re: Is this product, Nansulate, legit?

Unread postby sandshark » Mon 15 Dec 2008, 22:02:16

LOL! You jokers are too much. Try it, and you won't be making jokes. Easy to take pot-shots from a keyboard, but if you try it... trust me, you won't be scoffing at it. That's the bottom line. If I hadn't tried it myself, then I wouldn't be so sure.

Carry-on, knowitall jokers! Good stuff!
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Re: Is this product, Nansulate, legit?

Unread postby Dezakin » Tue 16 Dec 2008, 19:30:09

Dont you worry, in spite of all the doubters there's another sort born every minute.
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Re: Is this product, Nansulate, legit?

Unread postby sandshark » Tue 16 Dec 2008, 23:12:09

A closed mind can't be enlightened. That's really all we've learned here, as enough client names, 3rd party press, info, testing comparison data, and other kudos have been presented already to no avail (due to closed eyes and ears). No need for a "sort" to be born. The stuff works, period. Is it what everyone or every company wants or needs? Nope. Is it a valuable solution in the cases where it's a value-add. Yep. Quite a few real-world scenarios where this is a good, if not the best, option.

At least the thread's question has been answered, re: is the product "legit". It is, and there's not much debate about it. The discussion turned to "applications" and the need for, or lack of, etc. That's the type of discussion that a viable product will elicit. So, thanks.
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