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Iran Thread Pt. 5

A forum for discussion of regional topics including oil depletion but also government, society, and the future.

Re: Iran Captures Advanced US Drone Intact

Unread postby yeahbut » Fri 09 Dec 2011, 18:41:42

AgentR11 wrote:Most aircraft glide, most light weight aircraft will glide a long way, drones by definition are meant to loiter over hostile airspace for extended periods, thus they are built as absolutely lightly as possible. A drone will glide a LONG LONG way.


Yep, the gliding for a long time I understand. The uncontrolled landing leaving an intact aircraft? That seems improbable. As an example of Occam's razor, it leaves a lot to be desired.
I guess if someone can provide a few cases where unmanned light aircraft have landed themselves intact it might be a bit more convincing.
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Re: Iran Captures Advanced US Drone Intact

Unread postby ColossalContrarian » Fri 09 Dec 2011, 18:53:11

The satellites guiding the drones are probably easily hacked as well.

Then the fact that Iraqi insurgents were captured with recorded footage of drones is a bit embarrassing too.

Not sure about the gliding to the safe landing but it's possible. I just question the part about the military mysteriously losing control...
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Re: Iran Captures Advanced US Drone Intact

Unread postby AgentR11 » Fri 09 Dec 2011, 18:55:16

yeahbut wrote:
AgentR11 wrote:Most aircraft glide, most light weight aircraft will glide a long way, drones by definition are meant to loiter over hostile airspace for extended periods, thus they are built as absolutely lightly as possible. A drone will glide a LONG LONG way.

Yep, the gliding for a long time I understand. The uncontrolled landing leaving an intact aircraft? That seems improbable. As an example of Occam's razor, it leaves a lot to be desired.


I didn't see an intact aircraft in the video. I saw the top shell of one.

You are also missing the part of uncontrolled and SLOW SPEED. There is nothing in those images that would lead me to believe that that airframe has an unpowered, terminal velocity of anywhere near 400 mph.

My hunch on the landing, is that it skidded in a belly flop on flat dirt at about 70-120mph; ripping its bottom to shreds, but leaving the top shell in reasonably decent shape. A crack or few on top would be easily concealed in the footage with matching paint.

I know this doesn't feed our incessant craving for conspiracy and doom; but I'm just not that impressed with what the Iranians have shown.
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Re: Iran Captures Advanced US Drone Intact

Unread postby ColossalContrarian » Fri 09 Dec 2011, 20:08:34

AgentR11 wrote:I know this doesn't feed our incessant craving for conspiracy and doom; but I'm just not that impressed with what the Iranians have shown.


What do you think to the US Military response to ALL this, not just the missing drone but all the viruses and captured video?

I mean it's factual, not conspiracy theory so the fact that drones are so vulnerable should have some impact on your view of the handling of these problems.
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Re: Iran Captures Advanced US Drone Intact

Unread postby AgentR11 » Fri 09 Dec 2011, 20:18:29

The viruses do not surprise me at all really.
And I think they are handling it about as well as can be done.

We are really in the infancy stage of this networked world we are building. Its unrealistic to expect anything near perfection, even from the highest zones of DoD...
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Re: Iran Captures Advanced US Drone Intact

Unread postby sparky » Sat 10 Dec 2011, 07:43:27

.
having looked at the Iranian Fars agency videos , it seems that the drone was in landing configuration
air brake up
it is in pristine condition ..... not a scratch can be seen , not a bump

At face value, unless it's a fake copy done in 24 hours ,
someone landed this puppy on a smooth landing strip
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Re: Iran Captures Advanced US Drone Intact

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Sat 10 Dec 2011, 12:51:13

Image

Go 229
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Re: Iran Captures Advanced US Drone Intact

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Sat 10 Dec 2011, 12:58:07

Image

Image

dorlomin wrote:
ItalyRules wrote:3 years ago they proved themselves capable of placing a satellite(or anything of the same size and weight) in orbit.

Interestingly enough a technology that was cutting edge when the Edsel was being produced. 8)


Say again. How old?

Amazing how the US is so advanced.

Certainly no one else has a hope of understanding. :roll:

Also, the Germans in WWII had wire-guided weapons directed remotely with a joystick.

Where again was it the US and Russia got their rocket technology? Oh, that's right.

Goddard was launching Estes type rockets when the Germans were looking at sub-orbital weapons.
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Re: Iran Captures Advanced US Drone Intact

Unread postby dissident » Sun 11 Dec 2011, 01:15:46

Why the surprise about back doors? The weapons systems sold by the US have back doors and and limiters. This is not a case of some Chinese ASIC surprise. Maybe the repetitive, simple control signals to drones are easier to decrypt than text and audio.
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Re: Iran Captures Advanced US Drone Intact

Unread postby ColossalContrarian » Sun 11 Dec 2011, 11:38:42

dissident wrote:Why the surprise about back doors? The weapons systems sold by the US have back doors and and limiters. This is not a case of some Chinese ASIC surprise. Maybe the repetitive, simple control signals to drones are easier to decrypt than text and audio.


The same companies who make the chips and backdoor's for the Chinese make them for the US. Governments do run the world Companies do...
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Re: Iran Captures Advanced US Drone Intact

Unread postby ColossalContrarian » Sun 11 Dec 2011, 11:40:57

ColossalContrarian wrote:
dissident wrote:Why the surprise about back doors? The weapons systems sold by the US have back doors and and limiters. This is not a case of some Chinese ASIC surprise. Maybe the repetitive, simple control signals to drones are easier to decrypt than text and audio.


The same companies who make the chips and backdoor's for the Chinese make them for the US. Governments do not run the world Companies do...
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Re: Iran Captures Advanced US Drone Intact

Unread postby Keith_McClary » Sun 11 Dec 2011, 21:34:29

Iran Says It Will Not Return U.S. Drone
8O
Has the US asked for it back? I don't think they've officially admitted owning it (unless you count the unnamed "officials" where most of our "news" comes from).
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Re: Iran Captures Advanced US Drone Intact

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Sun 11 Dec 2011, 23:06:15

Fiddlerdave wrote:We don't know. Finding out is an IMMENSE task, much more work than making the stuff ourselves.

In reality, NO ONE is even checking! :lol:


In reality, you seem to be posting paranoia without knowing what you're talking about.

First, it is a FACT that it is a law that all private contractors must have ALL employees working on encryption based hardware to be used in the US (even in, say banks, not just military stuff) to be actual US citizens. I know, because I have close friends in IBM working on such stuff, who avoid their folks getting laid off every year by repeatedly pointing this out -- "You lay off my people and hire foreigners, and we can't make or sell the stuff anymore. Case closed (again)."

Second, I have seen a really good documentary on CNBC ("Code Wars: American Cyberthreat" aired on 05/26/11 at 21:00 eastern, hosted by Melissa Lee) on computers and security where all this risk is discussed in some detail. The makers of such hardware for the US military KNOW FOR A FACT that the folks (like the Chinese, or their hired minions) who make a lot of such hardware DO want to plant backdoors, etc. They know it's hard if not impossible to find 100% of the exposures. So, for military hardware, they make it ALL themselves (i.e. in the US) -- to avoid this kind of problem. (For infrastructure hardware which could be sabataged, this is far more problematical).

...

Look, I don't like this whole drone thing. I've been saying for a couple years now (and been scoffed at) that at some point our enemies WILL replicate this stuff and WILL use it against us, and what THEN?

What happens when a drone takes out part of Capitol Hill, the residential part of the White house one night, or just obliterates some senator's limo?

Or even a few shopping malls and/or grade schools. THAT should be terrific for the economy. :roll:

You can just imagine how upset TPTB in the US will be THEN.

...

I see on Google that there are strongly differing opinions on this. Clearly since we are hearing from both sides -- there ARE people checking on this and trying to prevent it.

So, I have no problem with expressing concern. But acting like you know what's going on and making wild and completely unsubstantiated misstatements only detracts from the conversation.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: Iran Captures Advanced US Drone Intact

Unread postby ColossalContrarian » Mon 12 Dec 2011, 09:40:30

...... lots of double posting happening to me......
Last edited by ColossalContrarian on Mon 12 Dec 2011, 09:43:48, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Iran Captures Advanced US Drone Intact

Unread postby ColossalContrarian » Mon 12 Dec 2011, 09:42:00

Outcast_Searcher wrote:
Fiddlerdave wrote:We don't know. Finding out is an IMMENSE task, much more work than making the stuff ourselves.

In reality, NO ONE is even checking! :lol:


In reality, you seem to be posting paranoia without knowing what you're talking about.

"First, it is a FACT ................ it's a law and because it's a law can't be violated because the law says so... lot's of other naive things...blablahblah.... I'm an American and this can't happen to American's... blah blah blah a lot of other useless info...."



Outcast_Searcher wrote:Look, I don't like this whole drone thing. I've been saying for a couple years now (and been scoffed at) that at some point our enemies WILL replicate this stuff and WILL use it against us, and what THEN?



Yes, I'm sure enemies will copy things we make that we use to spy on ourselves because they aren't smart enough to come up with it on their own because America invents everything and it's impossible for anyone else anywhere to invent anything. We've been around for 200 years and that's forever compared to China's 6000.... :lol:

Outcast_Searcher wrote:What happens when a drone takes out part of Capitol Hill, the residential part of the White house one night, or just obliterates some senator's limo?


That's when the "problem" will be "fixed"

Outcast_Searcher wrote:Or even a few shopping malls and/or grade schools. THAT should be terrific for the economy. :roll:

You can just imagine how upset TPTB in the US will be THEN.


Halliburton will go parabolic...

Outcast_Searcher wrote:I see on Google that there are strongly differing opinions on this. Clearly since we are hearing from both sides -- there ARE people checking on this and trying to prevent it.

So, I have no problem with expressing concern. But acting like you know what's going on and making wild and completely unsubstantiated misstatements only detracts from the conversation.


A lot of times strategic planners will higher authors to make scenarios the military can act on. Sweeping this under the rug is a typical lazy American view that Big Sis' .Gov will be there to save your sorry ass.
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Re: Iran Captures Advanced US Drone Intact

Unread postby autonomous » Mon 12 Dec 2011, 14:49:43

Possible location of US R170 base?

Google Satellite Images Reveal UAV Military Base (PHOTOS)

Aviation Web site Flight Global has claimed to have found a secret military base at Yucca Lake, Nevada, using Google Maps.

"The satellite image, taken in early 2011 and available on Google Maps, appears to show a roughly 5,200 ft asphalt runway and what appears to be a General Atomics MQ-1 Predator or MQ-9 Reaper UAV being towed on the parking ramp," Flight Global Web site reported.

The Yucca Lake airfield is located in the heavily restricted Tonopah Test Range. It is situated on the land owned by National Nuclear Security Administration (NNSA), a division of the Department of Energy (DoE).

The finding of the airstrip at Yucca Lake, which is used for testing the R-170 drones similar to the one lost in Iran last week, has raised further concern.

"Iranians would be most interested in operational bases because that tells them how we fly our surveillance missions," Cedric Leighton, a retired Air Force colonel told FoxNews.com.


http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/265472/20111212/google-satellite-images-reveal-america-s-secret.htm

Image

This photo shows large payload doors below the R170:
Image

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Yucca+Lake,+NV&hl=en&ll=36.927236,-116.007401&spn=0.00268,0.006539&sll=38.005974,-122.5177&sspn=43.100023,107.138672&vpsrc=6&hnear=Yucca+Lake&t=h&z=18
Last edited by autonomous on Mon 12 Dec 2011, 15:37:27, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Iran Captures Advanced US Drone Intact

Unread postby AgentR11 » Mon 12 Dec 2011, 15:05:00

Oh look, surprise, an aerial drone requires a hangar, a parking lot, and a runway!! Amazing top secret information.
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Re: Iran Captures Advanced US Drone Intact

Unread postby seahorse3 » Mon 12 Dec 2011, 16:32:51

Obama publicly asks Iran to return drone (which everyone knows won't happen).

http://news.yahoo.com/obama-calls-iran-back-downed-us-drone-180734188.html

So, why publicly ask for its return knowing it won't happen? My fear is that this little mishap may lead to an attack against Iran. I think this loss of technology and pie in the face really has upset the US at all major levels. So, asking for what won't be given back is just another public reason to justify an attack. This is escalating, not de-escalating.
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Re: Iran Captures Advanced US Drone Intact

Unread postby Cog » Mon 12 Dec 2011, 18:09:51

The alternative explanation is that Obama is a moron.
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Re: Iran Captures Advanced US Drone Intact

Unread postby seahorse3 » Mon 12 Dec 2011, 18:27:18

You're right Cog. He's a moron. It's so simple. I'm sorry I didn't think of that. He blurted that out without talking to anyone at the NSA, Chiefs of Staff, CIA, blah blah blah. This was an unscripted, impromptu reaction, like one of those open mic incidents.
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