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Healing The Partisan Divide Pt. 3

A forum for discussion of regional topics including oil depletion but also government, society, and the future.

Re: Healing The Partisan Divide Pt. 3

Unread postby Ibon » Mon 23 Jul 2018, 16:27:06

jedrider wrote:
Anyway, I don't understand this divide. It's almost like role playing. Once you get in the role, you have to play your part. It is easier than ad lib'ing.


You are suggesting therefore that the divide is only skin deep. In other words in many aspects superficial. This may be true. Kind of the way many folks play lip service to religion but when push comes to shove their material aspirations seem to always take priority over their spiritual aspirations.

This also suggests that the tribe targeted could easily shift. Unlike religious and ethnic divides it would appear the current partisan divide does not have a basis on an old legacy issue.

In other words maybe this partisan divide like most everything else American is pretty superficial.
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Re: Healing The Partisan Divide Pt. 3

Unread postby Pops » Mon 23 Jul 2018, 16:30:37

pstarr wrote:Pop, I didn't disagree. I agree with you. Did I say something different or was it that I simply elucidated the continual trickery of the repubs back then?

Just elucidating my profound capacity for unwavering insightfulness!
The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not, so well do, for themselves -- in their separate, and individual capacities.
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Re: Healing The Partisan Divide Pt. 3

Unread postby Newfie » Mon 23 Jul 2018, 16:57:00

Tanada,

My main point is that it does no good to blame one party more than the other. My observation is with most politicians, if you look closely, you can see their lips moving.
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Re: Healing The Partisan Divide Pt. 3

Unread postby Newfie » Mon 23 Jul 2018, 17:17:55

Of course it is superficial. Almost all wars have been about superficial matters, this royal wants that royals stuff so you serfs go attack and die.

Some wars are about ideas, ideas are powerful, they get folks to do silly things like become suicide bombers. We don’t have suicide bombers here.

I’m more reminded of the Spanish wars during Napoleans time. First the rabble would support the Republicans, then they would support the Royals, then the Republicans, then the Royals. That’s where we are, fighting for our Royals, White or Red rose?

That’s why I encourage folks to look at it differently, what is OUR stake in this game? Do we really hate folks of the other party? Or are we mostly pretty much alike? We are all pretty much sucking Bud Lite here. Now the difference between any of US and any of THEM is more significant.
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Re: Healing The Partisan Divide Pt. 3

Unread postby Ibon » Mon 23 Jul 2018, 17:46:13

Newfie wrote:Of course it is superficial. Almost all wars have been about superficial matters, this royal wants that royals stuff so you serfs go attack and die.

Some wars are about ideas, ideas are powerful, they get folks to do silly things like become suicide bombers. We don’t have suicide bombers here.

I’m more reminded of the Spanish wars during Napoleans time. First the rabble would support the Republicans, then they would support the Royals, then the Republicans, then the Royals. That’s where we are, fighting for our Royals, White or Red rose?

That’s why I encourage folks to look at it differently, what is OUR stake in this game? Do we really hate folks of the other party? Or are we mostly pretty much alike? We are all pretty much sucking Bud Lite here. Now the difference between any of US and any of THEM is more significant.


So what you are suggesting is that we unite against the royalty and sharpen the guillotines? But the royalty entertains us with digital devices so how can we continue to live superficial lives if we rally against those that provide us with the toys that distract us?

Don't we have to include Trump himself for example as one of the most entertaining distractions? Whether he be on your team or not or whether you hate or love him he has to be included in the superficial entertainment. He is the closest thing to royalty we have.

In all seriousness Newfie how would you ever galvanize Americans to leave behind their superficial short term memory distractions, as Pstarr mentioned, and really entertain any real reform?

Americans do not really want to reform their superficial reality. Let's be honest.
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Re: Healing The Partisan Divide Pt. 3

Unread postby mmasters » Mon 23 Jul 2018, 18:20:57

Ibon wrote:Don't we have to include Trump himself for example as one of the most entertaining distractions? Whether he be on your team or not or whether you hate or love him he has to be included in the superficial entertainment. He is the closest thing to royalty we have.

I think of the Kardashians as being the US's version of royalty and Trump being our CEO.
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Re: Healing The Partisan Divide Pt. 3

Unread postby Newfie » Mon 23 Jul 2018, 19:08:25

Ibon,

I truly don’t know how to respond.

My logical self says you are right. We are stuffed. Pass the pipe.

My emotional self says we should rally against them. Pass the ammo.
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Re: Healing The Partisan Divide Pt. 3

Unread postby Ibon » Mon 23 Jul 2018, 21:50:05

Newfie wrote:
My emotional self says we should rally against them. Pass the ammo.


Don't worry, the tide turns. Always does. And when it turns on a full moon it can surprise us.

I can call Americans superficial and feel certain about that just as I can acknowledge that the shifting demographic and emerging generations at some point will assert themselves.

The current racist and nationalistic impulse in America that Trump has nurtured cannot invent anything but anger and hatred and has no future.
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Re: Healing The Partisan Divide Pt. 3

Unread postby Cog » Mon 23 Jul 2018, 21:58:20

What racist impulse are you referring to?
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Re: Healing The Partisan Divide Pt. 3

Unread postby Ibon » Mon 23 Jul 2018, 22:03:41

Cog wrote:What racist impulse are you referring to?

Go cast your lure in another pond. I wont bite.
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Re: Healing The Partisan Divide Pt. 3

Unread postby Cog » Mon 23 Jul 2018, 22:23:45

You are the one who continually accuses trump, and by default anyone who supports him as racist. I'm curious as to how you form these notions. Other than hearing it said on cnn or npr. Surely a man of your deep intelligence can wow us with your well developed and researched facts on this crucial issue.
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Re: Healing The Partisan Divide Pt. 3

Unread postby dissident » Mon 23 Jul 2018, 23:21:42

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIj9jmf4mSM

The racism claim is pure intellectual bankruptcy. The anti-Trump zealots think they can lie, lie, lie up and down and that gives them moral authority. In the video above the Black Lives Matter activist was brazenly misquoting Trump. If there are no rules, then there can be no rational debate or discussion.
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Re: Healing The Partisan Divide Pt. 3

Unread postby jedrider » Tue 24 Jul 2018, 02:29:14

https://www.alternet.org/how-right-wing-convinces-itself-liberals-are-evil

This did not begin with Donald Trump. The modern Republican Party may be particularly apt to push conspiracy theories to rationalize its complicity with a staggeringly corrupt administration, but this is an extension of, not a break from, a much longer history. Since its very beginning, in the 1950s, members of the modern conservative movement have justified bad behavior by convincing themselves that the other side is worse. One of the binding agents holding the conservative coalition together over the course of the past half century has been an opposition to liberalism, socialism, and global communism built on the suspicion, sometimes made explicit, that there’s no real difference among them.


Whether Trump is rascist or not is not the most significant thing IMO. That the right-wing has a rascist agenda is also not the most significant thing IMO.

I think Trump supporters would have a difficult time proving how non-rascist he is. So, instead of challenging, you could just put up something that may convince someone, yet, nothing appears?

What troubles me the most about Trump is how non-linear he is. Republicans should disown him, yet they want the blood flowing to them, so they don't. He is a mad man. Do I have to prove that? Don't any of you listen to him? (I don't much, but what I've heard makes me rather sure. I didn't listen much to Obama either, BTW.)

MAGA, like when it was more rascist, I suppose. Enough name calling. I don't like how Trump is unraveling our regulatory structure. It is ultimately anti-democratic. He is wrecking established international relations and not replacing them with anything substantial. I don't see the MAGA part, nor where it will come from, so I don't believe any good can come from this.

But, all of this is immaterial to falling for the partisan divide. It is a way of thinking, a way of handling fears and desires, a way of dividing people. I don't like it. It is not the people, it is the beliefs (false in my view).
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Re: Healing The Partisan Divide Pt. 3

Unread postby Cog » Tue 24 Jul 2018, 06:13:15

You think it's up to a person to prove his innocence instead of you proving his guilt? Please tell me you are not an American. The left plays this game continually of making the accusation without foundation and thinks this obligates you to prove a negative. Not how it works comrade.

Don't confuse nationalism with racism. That is the first of the mistakes the left makes intentionally. We did not elect a globalist and could not care less if we hurt the feelings of those who were never our allies to begin with.
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Re: Healing The Partisan Divide Pt. 3

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Tue 24 Jul 2018, 07:42:41

Folks, consider for a few moments that the "partisan divide" between the R's and D's would still exist, in fact does exist everywhere throughout the world, because it reflects the actual difference between two common yet radically opposed philosophies of life.

The "divide" between these two philosophies still exists, even when the local political parties have different names.
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Re: Healing The Partisan Divide Pt. 3

Unread postby Newfie » Tue 24 Jul 2018, 07:53:28

Jed,

What bothers me most.....

Given the political climate in the USA the Dems have a golden opportunity to take back the house and senate and the Presidency. But they seem to be floundering because they can not articulate a clear message. They are offering no alternative philosophy or program. Their may be bright lights here and there but nothing cohesive, no vision of how to fix things they don’t like. They seem content to run against Trump with no alternative.

So why isn’t the Democratic Party 50 points ahead?

They need to address this question seriously. And that is not Trumos or the R’s fault. That is the D’s fixing their own house.

Give me someone I can vote for.
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Re: Healing The Partisan Divide Pt. 3

Unread postby Ibon » Tue 24 Jul 2018, 08:06:35

Cog wrote:You are the one who continually accuses trump, and by default anyone who supports him as racist. I'm curious as to how you form these notions. Other than hearing it said on cnn or npr. Surely a man of your deep intelligence can wow us with your well developed and researched facts on this crucial issue.


Look again at my comment above that forced your response. I will repeat it here

The current racist and nationalistic impulse in America that Trump has nurtured cannot invent anything but anger and hatred and has no future.


Note I did not say Trump is a racist. We went over this in another thread. You agreed with me. Trump is not a racist. He uses racism to further his agenda. That divisive strategy is a one trick pony. Short term it resulted in him actually winning the election. Long term it has no future. Or looking at the shifting demographics you think it does?
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Re: Healing The Partisan Divide Pt. 3

Unread postby Cog » Tue 24 Jul 2018, 09:03:10

I suppose if you don't endorse open borders and the elimination of ICE, as the Democratic Socialists now endorse, that means you are a racist. Yeah, ok go ahead and run on that platform. Just like you ran on the platform that Hillary ran on, that half the country are deplorables and are irredeemable. Beyond help and saving.

But don't be surprised when it fails.

The goal of the left is to flood the country with illegals who themselves come from failed socialist economies. They believe this will usher in their grand socialist experiment. An experiment that will only end in blood.
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Re: Healing The Partisan Divide Pt. 3

Unread postby Cog » Tue 24 Jul 2018, 09:29:56

This is now the Democrat Party. Bernie Sanders is on tour with her espousing the destruction of the US border and ICE. Let the flood of illegals begin. Great way to heal that partisan divide. :lol: Also a great way to remain a minority party. Keep up the good work.

https://www.newsweek.com/ocasio-cortez- ... ze-1028387

New York congressional candidate Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez has called on protesters rallying under the “Abolish ICE” banner to occupy border crossings, airports and Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) offices across the country.

Ocasio-Cortez made the comments during an interview on Monday with Democracy Now's Amy Goodman, speaking alongside Barcelona Mayor Ada Colau.

Asked by Goodman about her decision to leave New York to join protests at the U.S.-Mexico border just days before the primary in which she defeated Democratic Representative Joseph Crowley in a stunning upset, Ocasio-Cortez said, "There is no convenient time" to "stand up against human rights violations."
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