[theluckycountry]

Don't you worry, if push comes to shove the Ukrainian resistance to the Russians will look like amateur hour compared to Red state America believing "gun control" means a steady aim and a slow squeeze on the trigger.

Yeah, I have no doubt you guys can handle things over there, no matter what happens, I was just surprised with the story, since our press has always been so Pro US. Makes me wonder if they weren't given the order to set this ball rolling by the yanks themselves, sort of conditioning the people to the fact the US "Wont" be going into Taiwan, that those days are indeed over. Personally I think it would be suicide with millions of Chinese foot solders just itching to cross the straight and divide the spoils.

China doesn't regard the Russian move as an invasion, and are not interested in sanctions. This is exactly the sort of thing the US was committed to prevent, two large powers working together against the Western Powers. It's like Hitler and Mussolini getting together. Bloody war cycles, every 80 years the world goes mad! Usually preceded by a global economic crises too.

[theluckycountry]

So a little on topic. America was founded as an extractive colony, a business venture with a side of religious cult. It's what we still are even though the extraction is getting thin. Our government was founded with the express intent of: A, keeping the slave economy viable and B, keeping the mob at bay. Jefferson said democracy is mob rule where 51% take away the rights of the minority. The founders were in favor of minority rule — not the 49%, the 1%. Rockefeller himself couldn't have dreamed up a more efficient extractive economy.

The one saving grace is we were from the start an ownership society, because land was so plentiful it had little value, it was used as a lure and payment. I have ancestors who came here (early on) as indentured servants who were paid in property at the end of their contract. In contrast to the conquests in S. America where a few conquistadores were sent to enslave the natives, we killed the natives and enslaved or at least indentured the colonists.

So fast forward to the world wars, the US had a large business class who were able to see the profit in wartime manufacturing and a naive population still willing to sacrifice on principle. Actually wwii was more of a expanded works administration program to be honest. Regardless, we threw every bit of our then massive resource and manufacturing base at making money, oh, I mean bailing out the allies.

That was a nice feather in our cap, (even though it took the British until 2000-something to pay their portion of the tab). The Marshall plan was great PR too. It not coincidentally bought the demise of trade barriers and opened the way for that same US business class to move in right behind the tanks and invent the American Supranational Corporation. Salute!

The US started as a a religious cult fronted slave based extractive colony and wound up an undemocratic corporate empire still convinced of their grace under god to do whatever the hell we like.

What's not to love?
.

Well I wouldn't have said it myself, lol, but I agree totally. If you look at Australian corporate structures you'll find Knights of the Realm sitting on just about every big board. Banks, mining corps (we have a few of them) Sir this, Sir that, this nation really is still a colony of the British Empire, a resource for the City of London, the Queen herself owning major stakes in our nation.

The house prices here are insane now, literally! $500k for a brick home in a decent rural town and $1000,000 for a similar home in any of the inner suburbs of the capital Brisbane north of me. The southern capitals are much higher. It's a racket driven by laws structured to make it easy to buy investment properties, Negative Gearing, is the big incentive but there are others. Millions of aussies own two homes, they bid against each other for them pushing prices up. And the owners of the banks are laughing all the way to 'The bank'

[vtsnowedin]

The US started as a a religious cult fronted slave based extractive colony and wound up an undemocratic corporate empire still convinced of their grace under god to do whatever the hell we like.

Yes the US has the worst form of government there is except for all the others.

I think the Chinese and Taiwanese are getting an education about how badly an invasion of the island might go. The Taiwan armed forces are much better equipped then Ukraine and could inflict losses far in excess of what the heroes in Ukraine are doing on guts and courage alone.
Troop transports and other Chinese war ships might have half their numbers sunk to the bottom of the strait before they ever unload a single troop.

[Pops]

Yes the US has the worst form of government there is except for all the others.

Yeah,...no
https://www.heritage.org/index/ranking
--- #25, mostly free
https://www.cato.org/sites/cato.org/fil ... x-2021.pdf
--- #15
https://freedomhouse.org/countries/freedom-world/scores
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index
--- #26 = "flawed democracy"
https://www.democracymatrix.com/ranking
--- #36

Its cool to root for the home team, pretending it is flawless is how you lose your freedom
.

[theluckycountry]

I think the Chinese and Taiwanese are getting an education about how badly an invasion of the island might go... Chinese war ships might have half their numbers sunk to the bottom of the strait before they ever unload a single troop.

Somehow I think a superpower like China has a game plan for that. Like a million surface to air missiles ready to take down any opposition. US tech might be ok against SCUD missiles but the Chinese are a little more up to date. Taiwan is a lost cause, that's why I'm buying extra bicycles at the moment, most of the decent ones come out of Taiwan.

[jedrider]

I think the Chinese and Taiwanese are getting an education about how badly an invasion of the island might go... Chinese war ships might have half their numbers sunk to the bottom of the strait before they ever unload a single troop.

Somehow I think a superpower like China has a game plan for that. Like a million surface to air missiles ready to take down any opposition. US tech might be ok against SCUD missiles but the Chinese are a little more up to date. Taiwan is a lost cause, that's why I'm buying extra bicycles at the moment, most of the decent ones come out of Taiwan.

I think that Taiwan is too technologically important for the U.S. right now. They have T.S.M.C. and probably many other companies with intellectual property that China would love, but the U.S. would not want China to have. Eventually, yes, China will dominate, but not yet IMO.

[vtsnowedin]

Yes the US has the worst form of government there is except for all the others.

Yeah,...no
https://www.heritage.org/index/ranking
--- #25, mostly free
https://www.cato.org/sites/cato.org/fil ... x-2021.pdf
--- #15
https://freedomhouse.org/countries/freedom-world/scores
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index
--- #26 = "flawed democracy"
https://www.democracymatrix.com/ranking
--- #36

Its cool to root for the home team, pretending it is flawless is how you lose your freedom
.

I never said the US government is flawless.
We do have the ability to fix flaws when enough people want them fixed and that is our greatest strength.

[Doly]

This is exactly the sort of thing the US was committed to prevent, two large powers working together against the Western Powers. It's like Hitler and Mussolini getting together.

It's worse, in the sense that Russia and China together have a bigger fraction of the world economy than Germany and Italy had back then.

Anyway, I would avoid too many WWII comparisons because if this ends up developing into WWIII, people are going to expect things to turn in similar ways, and it's very unlikely they will. Major wars are all different. There are very few good parallels between WWI, WWII and the Napoleonic wars.

[vtsnowedin]

[ There are very few good parallels between WWI, WWII and the Napoleonic wars.

You don't see Napoleon's and Hitlers invasions of Russia as parallels?
They look like history repeating itself to me.
Also both WW1 and WW2 were won after the industrial might of the USA came to bear.

[AdamB]

[ There are very few good parallels between WWI, WWII and the Napoleonic wars.

You don't see Napoleon's and Hitlers invasions of Russia as parallels?
They look like history repeating itself to me.
Also both WW1 and WW2 were won after the industrial might of the USA came to bear.

MURIKA!!!!

Sorry...couldn't resist....

[vtsnowedin]

[ There are very few good parallels between WWI, WWII and the Napoleonic wars.

You don't see Napoleon's and Hitlers invasions of Russia as parallels?
They look like history repeating itself to me.
Also both WW1 and WW2 were won after the industrial might of the USA came to bear.

MURIKA!!!!

Sorry...couldn't resist....

That's OK by me . MURIKA built how many airplanes tanks, ships and submarines during the war years? They (Rose the riveter)were literally building planes faster then the Germans could possibly shoot them down. By the end the allies were mounting bombing raids with over a thousand bombers in them plus their fighter escorts.
It is an old calculation that still works. Even the American civil war was decided by the industrial capacity of the North over the agricultural economy of the South.

[AdamB]

[ There are very few good parallels between WWI, WWII and the Napoleonic wars.

You don't see Napoleon's and Hitlers invasions of Russia as parallels?
They look like history repeating itself to me.
Also both WW1 and WW2 were won after the industrial might of the USA came to bear.

MURIKA!!!!

Sorry...couldn't resist....

That's OK by me . MURIKA built how many airplanes tanks, ships and submarines during the war years? They (Rose the riveter)were literally building planes faster then the Germans could possibly shoot them down. By the end the allies were mounting bombing raids with over a thousand bombers in them plus their fighter escorts.
It is an old calculation that still works. Even the American civil war was decided by the industrial capacity of the North over the agricultural economy of the South.

Interesting, I thought I had already replied but it appears to be missing. Anyway...

There is no doubt the 20th century was the American century. The question is can we, or have we, maintained that momentum into the 21st. Sure we can build stuff and have nukes and are all quite exceptional and whatnot, but events since 2016 demonstrated that hidden within our population have been groups of people to whom logic, critical thinking, and learning is treated as a disease within their ranks. And no, I don't mean just peak oilers. The idea of MURIKA!!! as I've categorized this feeling, and you've pointed out why it has a right to exist, might not be the MURIKA! we live in today. You seen much interest in the younglings for hard work, fairness in speech and thought as long as you agree with me, a longing for the MURIKA! of old among certain age and social classes? For crying out loud, I was part of a work initiative in Appalachia a couple years back where young veterans were offered free heavy equipment training, running dozers and excavators and whatnot. A month or two in the classroom leading to basic hands on training, then a full time job, good money, 12 on, 12 off, with a mancamp available for housing and every 3rd week off, and they had all quit within 2 months or so. VETERANS! Why? because A/C wasn't available in all machines. Because sometimes the operator had to get out of the cab, grab a shovel, and figure out exactly what he had just bumped into with the blade, and could they continue or not. One of these kids had MOMMY come get him and take him home, it being so unreasonable, these harsh living and work conditions. MURIKA ain't want it used to be VT, and the nonsense and sheer numbers of what became obvious to everyone in country in 2016 is now in the open, and maybe you figure that genie is somehow going to be put back in the bottle, but I doubt it.

The America you and I knew from our youth isn't the America of today, and is unlikely to go back. The IDEA of younglings working 12 hour shifts or doubles in a factory to build bombers is laughable. Sure, there are still farm kids around who aren't afraid of work, but those aren't near as many as they once were. And without that kind of background you're left with suburban kids, if they don't have an air conditioned office they can work in pushing paper or pretending they know how to use Excel while waiting for their telecommute day so they can lounge around the house with their comfort animal with Ru Paul's Drag Race playing in the background to create a soothing entertainment environment, they might just die!! Now where is my latte and someone get me a pillow for my executive lounger to sit in front of a computer screen!

You sound like you've been out of the workforce for awhile VT, and maybe aren't anywhere near the suburban growth centers where this kind of nonsense is quite obvious to this old fart. Someone around here quite often espouses the potential of manual trades, everything from construction to plumbing and electrician and whatnot, and I can see that being a valid point in the environment that our kids get raised in nowadays. Maybe not in the hinterlands, but in new age suburbia, kids in the public school system here are BANNED from playing cowboys and indians out in the school yard and should they DARE to form a semblance of a firearm with their thumb and forefinger or pretend to be firing a bow and arrow then BY GOD the kids are being hauled to principles office while the parents are called and issued the demand that their children's behavior comply with acceptable social standards. I took in real live revolvers to high school as props for school speeches. I'd be jailed for allowing the kids to do that now, and the kids as well should they attempt it anyway, a SWAT team would be called, there would be a panic and kids would be hurt fleeing the building, someone would pull the fire alarm because of the scale of this horror, etc etc. I'd be charged with criminal neglect or something, and the kids banned from public education.

MURIKA ain't what it used to be VT, and I haven't touched on Qanon and the white nationalism nonsense that became apparent in 2016, the comply or be cast out undertones to all of this coming from the other extreme, and how there doesn't appear to be any tolerance of those who haven't rushed to social compliance and behavior dictated by benevolent others, and all for our own good and peace and harmony. Which is probably why the opposing side relishes doing everything it can to run the other way.

Sorry for the rant. MURIKA! was certainly once a thing. Don't know how you can argue it in this day and age, or much into the future at this point. Sure...we can still make stuff. So can China and Taiwan. A once proud country hobbled for lack of microprocessors because we outsourced high end manufacturing so corporations could earn an extra dollar somewhere by screwing over American labor. Thank you Democans and Republicrats for globalization.

[vtsnowedin]

Sorry you feel that way.
In my own family, my three grown children go to work every day,. I have a niece that is in the air National guard and she has a cousin that is in the marines. One of my daughters is a veteran of the last gulf war, she ran cranes and excavators.
Another niece was an army nurse and is now an RN. My two brother in-laws are also vets. one Navy submariner the other an air force engineer.
While they will not let a student bring his hunting rifle to school like I did in 1972 for a science project (We built a ballistic pendulum.) I think the students are not that different in spirit and will rise to whatever life demands.

[AdamB]

Sorry you feel that way.

No need to feel sorry for how I feel. I'm certainly not lounging around feeling sorry for myself that the world has changed, change is one true constant in the universe, once you figure that out, then it just...is.

In my own family, my three grown children go to work every day,. I have a niece that is in the air National guard and she has a cousin that is in the marines. One of my daughters is a veteran of the last gulf war, she ran cranes and excavators.
Another niece was an army nurse and is now an RN. My two brother in-laws are also vets. one Navy submariner the other an air force engineer.

My two grown kids do exactly what grown kids ought to be doing, moving on to advanced degrees while working full time, riding motorcycles in the meantime, etc etc. I'm glad there are still families like yours that understand service to something other than oneself. Good for you, and and an anomaly as best I can tell here in suburbia nowadays. I only know one other family where service like that is common, among dozens of expended families my kids were involved with in public school. And I imagine this would certainly influence your perspective on the world at large. I come from teachers and coal miners in Appalachia, dad having been Air Force. My grades weren't good enough for an interview with Rickover when I applied to the Navy, so that was as close as I got to it.

While they will not let a student bring his hunting rifle to school like I did in 1972 for a science project (We built a ballistic pendulum.) I think the students are not that different in spirit and will rise to whatever life demands.

I agree with you about the students...with the caveat of...IF THEY ARE ALLOWED. In some places, they certainly are NOT. Parents can compensate for it of course, and I certainly have worked that angle, but there are plenty of families where school is convenient day care, and they learn what they learn without concern from mom and dad.

[vtsnowedin]

Don't need anymore degrees. Between them they have two PHDs and a teaching license. A nephew , a brother of the airguards woman will graduate form U-Mass Dartmouth this spring as a mechanical engineer.
It is not a matter of being allowed to do what is right. It is doing what needs to be done in spite of all opposition.

[mousepad]

The IDEA of younglings working 12 hour shifts or doubles in a factory to build bombers is laughable.

If the pressure is on they will learn quickly. Just like you lecture people not to fall for the PEAK this time around, don't fall for the old "the next generation is worse".

https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20 ... ung-adults

Some nuggets

“Many [young people] were so pampered nowadays that they had forgotten that there was such a thing as walking, and they made automatically for the buses… unless they did something, the future for walking was very poor indeed.”
Scottish Rights of Way: More Young People Should Use Them, Falkirk Herald, 1951

“Whither are the manly vigour and athletic appearance of our forefathers flown? Can these be their legitimate heirs? Surely, no; a race of effeminate, self-admiring, emaciated fribbles can never have descended in a direct line from the heroes of Potiers and Agincourt...”
Letter in Town and Country magazine republished in Paris Fashion: A Cultural History, 1771

“We defy anyone who goes about with his eyes open to deny that there is, as never before, an attitude on the part of young folk which is best described as grossly thoughtless, rude, and utterly selfish.”
The Conduct of Young People, Hull Daily Mail, 1925

“…in youth clubs were young people who would not take part in boxing, wrestling or similar exercises which did not appeal to them. The ‘tough guy’ of the films made some appeal but when it came to something that led to physical strain or risk they would not take it.”
Young People Who Spend Too Much, Dundee Evening Telegraph, 1945

[AdamB]

Don't need anymore degrees. Between them they have two PHDs and a teaching license.

My kids are younger than yours then. I got started late in the family business. They both collect their masters this year, one becoming a CPA and the other something or another in computer information systems.

A nephew , a brother of the airguards woman will graduate form U-Mass Dartmouth this spring as a mechanical engineer.

My sister never left Appalachia, and they and their kids turned out about normal for white folks left behind without an education in that neck of the woods. Wonderful trump supporters they are though. Your folks sound like they have good examples and guidance to move on and do things with their lives. Most of my family stayed in the world of the working class/union folks industrialization of the Midwest (I've got uncles and aunts in Cleveland Detroit, UAW folks) until that imploded and took their livelihoods (and hope for their kids) with it. I fled the place as soon as I graduated high school and never looked back.

It is not a matter of being allowed to do what is right. It is doing what needs to be done in spite of all opposition.

Yeah, well, it's the parents job to make sure the latter works out correctly. And easier said than done in my experience. When they are no examples within the family of advancement through work and education, you've got to make your own, the only good news being that then you can instill that in your children instead of what could have been if they were raised to the non-standards of the rest of my family in particular.

[suxs]

Amazon rainforest near tipping point of shifting to savannah resulting in catastrophe of global and biblical proportions, new study suggests ~~ Global Systems Institute at the University of Exeter, UK ~~

You won't have too much longer to wait. In 10 to 20 years (please stay in the game so we can run 'we told you so' straight up each and every denialists' ass) the global population will be screaming why weren't we warned and why didn't the politicians do something to save us.

The good Earth -- we could have saved it, but we were too damn cheap and lazy ~~Kurt Vonnegut

Yet, the wealthy land barons and multinational agribusiness companies are burning, bulldozing, and chainsawing the forests now at levels that dwarf anything in the past. It is an orgy of MONE-MONEY-MONEY. The only people trying to stop the insanity are environmentalists, the church, and native American tribes. But don't fool yourself.... a group of geeky conservationists, nuns and priests, and poorly armed tribal people are no match for the private armies running around and killing anything that gets in their masters' way.

We are a sick species hellbent on blowing up the Earth. Before we transform the Earth into a lifeless husk, we will be exterminated having been determined a failed species. This I promise you.

[theluckycountry]

Before we transform the Earth into a lifeless husk, we will be exterminated having been determined a failed species. This I promise you.

Did you see that interview with the cripple, just before he died.
" we have just 100 years to become an interplanetary species or mankind will ultimately meet its maker."
That's what passes for wisdom from the preeminent physicist of our times. Me thinks he only got press because he was drooling in a wheelchair, you have to appease the minorities don't you.

[Newfie]

Dang that sounds harsh. True, but harsh.