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Greta Thunberg

Greta Thunberg

Unread postby Plantagenet » Tue 09 Nov 2021, 13:13:14

dissident wrote: most of Russia's CO2 emissions are consumed by its own forests. ....


Not really.

The huge forest fires that are now occurring every summer across Siberia release enormous, record-setting amounts of CO2.

In just two months last summer Siberian fires released over 800 Mt of CO2.....thats more then large industrialized countries like Germany release in an entire year.

siberia-wildfires-greenhouse-gas-emissions

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Siberia is burning.....and emitting H U G E amounts of CO2 into the atmosphere.

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Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage Pt. 2

Unread postby Plantagenet » Tue 09 Nov 2021, 23:41:22

Greta Thunberg declares the Glasgow UN COP meeting to be a failure

teens-take-over-glasgow-as-greta-thunberg-declares-it-failure-

Greta keeps telling the truth.

She's focused like a laser on reducing greenhouse emissions now, while Obama and Biden and the rest of the phonies inside the COP meeting hall are content to pretend that making promises to maybe do something about emissions someday is good enough.

It looks like Glasgow is going to wind up being another fraud like the Paris Climate accords.

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In Glasgow they are pretending to write something down that will fix the climate.....

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Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage Pt. 2

Unread postby Revi » Wed 10 Nov 2021, 18:42:46

I heard that an official conclusion of the Glasgow conference is that they need to meet next year and make some decisions.
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Re: Greta Thunberg

Unread postby Tanada » Fri 21 Oct 2022, 17:45:27

Greta Thunberg kills off the anti-nuclear campaign

The climate activist's change of heart is only one of many

by Rob Lownie


Greta Thunberg criticised German plans to shut down its three remaining nuclear plants

A change in mind from the world’s most famous environmental campaigner shows just how marginalised the case against nuclear power has become. In an interview last week, Greta Thunberg criticised German plans to shut down its three remaining nuclear plants, branding the move “a bad idea” and a “mistake” if it necessitated switching to coal. For this she received praise from Christian Democrat and Free Democratic Party politicians in the country, and even won over figures from the German Right who had previously been dismissive of her activism.

Shortly after these comments, German Chancellor Olaf Scholz yesterday vowed to extend the operation of all three plants until April of next year. In doing so, he has risked the wrath of the anti-nuclear Green party which makes up one-third of the nation’s traffic light coalition.

But in truth, Thunberg’s comments are indicative of a prevailing international mood which, in light of the global energy crisis, recognises the need for nuclear power instead of impractical renewable alternatives. In Germany, where there has been a frantic scramble to wean itself off cheap Russian gas, the need is particularly acute.

The Swedish climate activist is not the first public figure to perform a volte-face on nuclear energy. In the US, Democrat Representative for Congress Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez declared in 2020 that the proposed Green New Deal (GND) “does leave the door open for nuclear.” The GND, and Ocasio-Cortez’s views on energy, had evidently developed in the fifteen months since she insisted that there would be “no space” for nuclear power in the quest for renewable and sustainable sources.

Shorn of high-profile figureheads like Thunberg and AOC, the anti-nuclear coalition around the world is noticeably dwindling. This month Austria, which has been anti-nuclear since a 1978 referendum, made good on its intention to challenge the European Union’s inclusion of nuclear energy, as well as natural gas, in its list of supposedly green investments. According to the nation’s environment minister, Leonore Gewessler, the two are neither green nor sustainable, and their inclusion on the list amounts to ‘greenwashing’ on the part of the EU. This challenge has also been supported by Luxembourg.

Spain, though not a co-signatory, is nonetheless officially critical of nuclear energy too. At last year’s COP26 summit, Portugal and Denmark were convinced to join a European anti-nuclear alliance alongside Germany, Austria and Luxembourg.

Yet these countries’ politicians may be out of step with their voters on this issue. In a survey conducted in Denmark this August, 46% of respondents said they would vote for the use of nuclear power in a referendum, while 39% said they opposed it. According to a YouGov poll from last year, only 20% of Spanish people think that the country should not generate nuclear energy, whereas 40% think it should be a major part of Spain’s energy mix, equal to renewable sources like solar and wind.

Germany’s change of tack reflects its leaders’ awareness that, as the fourth largest economy in the world and a key player in energy markets, the country has to leave the option of nuclear power open. More and more countries will follow Germany’s lead in revising their position on nuclear energy, with Japan now pondering an extension to the limit on the operation lifespan of its nuclear plants.

Meanwhile, campaigners who were once central to the anti-nuclear cause have also shifted in their views when confronted with the utility of nuclear power. Across Europe and beyond, critics of nuclear, for now, are nowhere to be seen.


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Re: Greta Thunberg

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sat 22 Oct 2022, 00:02:17

Tanada wrote:
Greta Thunberg kills off the anti-nuclear campaign

Greta Thunberg criticised German plans to shut down its three remaining nuclear plants.... in truth, Thunberg’s comments are indicative of a prevailing international mood which, in light of the global energy crisis, recognises the need for nuclear power instead of impractical renewable alternatives. In Germany, where there has been a frantic scramble to wean itself off cheap Russian gas, the need is particularly acute.

... campaigners who were once central to the anti-nuclear cause have also shifted in their views when confronted with the utility of nuclear power. Across Europe and beyond, critics of nuclear, for now, are nowhere to be seen.

LINKY


For decades the anti-nuclear power trogylydites have successfully stopped nuclear power plants.....so coal-fired power plants and NG fired power plants were built instead. But coal-fired power plants release CO2 and NG power plants require huge amounts of NG which results in methane leaks to the atmosphere.

Somehow global warming was ignored in the hysteria against nuclear power plants.

So now we've got global warming started......and no way to stop it.

Its like Biden stupidly getting inflation started.....with no way to stop.

All we can do now is just watch and see just how bad things will get.....

On the bright side, its nice to see Greta Thunberg and some other environmental activists now embracing nuclear power.

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Greta Thunberg speaks truth to power...

Its nice....its too late but its still nice.

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Re: Greta Thunberg

Unread postby Newfie » Sun 23 Oct 2022, 13:24:33

She is learning and adjusting.

So am I.
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Re: Greta Thunberg

Unread postby Plantagenet » Tue 01 Nov 2022, 17:39:13

Oh no..... now Greta Thunberg has turned into a communist!

greta-thunberg-calls-overthrow-whole-capitalist-system

Isn't she aware that CO2 pollution to the atmosphere has always been horrendous from communist countries? China is by the far the largest CO2 emitter in the world today, and the USSR was one of the worst CO2 emitters in its day.

Bring back the old Greta!!!!

This new communist "Red" Greta has forgotten the old environmentalist "Green" Greta's pledge to follow the science!!!!!

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Oh no..... now Greta Thunberg has turned into a communist!

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Re: Greta Thunberg

Unread postby yellowcanoe » Tue 01 Nov 2022, 18:04:52

Plantagenet wrote:Oh no..... now Greta Thunberg has turned into a communist!

greta-thunberg-calls-overthrow-whole-capitalist-system

Isn't she aware that CO2 pollution to the atmosphere has always been horrendous from communist countries? China is by the far the largest CO2 emitter in the world today, and the USSR was one of the worst CO2 emitters in its day.


Replacing the capitalist system is a cornerstone of the degrowth movement. Capitalism is geared towards never ending economic growth and increased resource consumption. Our number one problem is that we are consuming resources at a rate far beyond what the planet can replenish and climate change is a subset of this problem so it is understandable that degrowth would require replacing capitalism as we know it now.

I recently read "The future is Degrowth, A Guide to a World beyond Capitalism". They never use the word communism to describe what they are proposing but the emphasis on a more equitable distribution of income certainly reminded me of communism. I am rather disappointed with the degrowth movement. They seem to believe we can drastically cut consumption in first world countries while simultaneously increasing consumption in third world countries while maintaining a good quality of life for everyone. What was especially irritating was the idea that borders should be completely open.

You are absolutely right about communist countries having a higher level of pollution than Western countries. The German government had quite the cleanup job after reunification with East Germany.
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Re: Greta Thunberg

Unread postby Plantagenet » Tue 01 Nov 2022, 18:53:14

yellowcanoe wrote:Replacing the capitalist system is a cornerstone of the degrowth movement. Capitalism is geared towards never ending economic growth and increased resource consumption.


So is socialism.

I'm afraid that "economic growth" and "increased resource consumption" has occurred in even the most backward and totalitarian socialist countries? As population grows, economies tend to grow.

yellowcanoe wrote:Our number one problem is that we are consuming resources at a rate far beyond what the planet can replenish and climate change is a subset of this problem so it is understandable that degrowth would require replacing capitalism as we know it now.


Not really, no. That doesn't follow at all.

Clearly we need to reduce our use of fossil fuels, but its not clear that requires replacing capitalism.

In fact, since capitalism is the most efficient economic system, the best way to reduce fossil use and solve other environmental problems may well be to make it unprofitable to use fossil fuels and more profitable to use renewable energy, and then count on greed and other capitalist incentives to drive talented people to find the solution to the problem of exactly how best to do that.

yellowcanoe wrote:I recently read "The future is Degrowth, A Guide to a World beyond Capitalism". They never use the word communism to describe what they are proposing but the emphasis on a more equitable distribution of income certainly reminded me of communism. I am rather disappointed with the degrowth movement. They seem to believe we can drastically cut consumption in first world countries while simultaneously increasing consumption in third world countries while maintaining a good quality of life for everyone. What was especially irritating was the idea that borders should be completely open.


I haven't read that book. Thanks for the information.

I agree with you 100% on your discomfort at the idea of removing national borders. Here in the USA Joe Biden has essentially removed our southern border and millions of impoverished people are now streaming into the USA.....just as we are about to go into an economic recession. Its not a very smart policy, IMHO.

yellowcanoe wrote:You are absolutely right about communist countries having a higher level of pollution than Western countries. The German government had quite the cleanup job after reunification with East Germany.


Exactly right. I saw the same things when I visited the USSR......it was the most polluted place I have ever seen. The waterfronts were littered with rusting hulks and huge lines of abandoned obsolete cranes. The stores were almost completely empty. The apartments (all government owned) were decrepit and collapsing.

IMHO once you "end capitalism" you inevitably get the government in charge of everything and there is no incentive for the government to reduce its own pollution.....when the government owns everything including "the means of production" there is no economic competition so no product ever gets any better, and there is no independent media and there is no independent counter culture and no people with independent wealth in society that can be critical of government and sue the government in order to provide a check on the government.

Mixed economies, like the USA, Germany, and other western countries work very well, with the capitalist sector being the economic engine that pumps out wealth to the entire society. But purely socialist/communist economies are inevitably static and unsuccessful, IMHO.

Image
abandoned, obsolete rusting cranes line the waterfronts of Russian cities....

Nice chatting with you.

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Re: Greta Thunberg

Unread postby jato0072 » Tue 01 Nov 2022, 20:17:51

Capitalism is geared towards never ending economic growth and increased resource consumption.


Egyptian empire
Persian empire
Han dynasty
Umayyad Caliphate
Mongol empire
Ottoman Empire
Spanish empire
Russian Empire
British Empire

All capitalist I presume???
/sarcasm

What organism doesn't want to grow? The self licking ice-cream cone has yet to be invented. Human empires will continue to cycle between growth and collapse. It won't matter what economic system they use.
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Re: Greta Thunberg

Unread postby AdamB » Wed 02 Nov 2022, 15:05:23

jato0072 wrote:What organism doesn't want to grow? The self licking ice-cream cone has yet to be invented. Human empires will continue to cycle between growth and collapse. It won't matter what economic system they use.


Thank God we can now stick just with this angle rather than blaming it on peak oil. Should have done it 18 years ago about when this place started, and saved all the pseudo science "don't no nuttin' bout no geologies" nonsense.

Love the self licking ice cream cone thing.
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Re: Greta Thunberg

Unread postby Plantagenet » Thu 03 Nov 2022, 00:13:25

jato0072 wrote:
Capitalism is geared towards never ending economic growth and increased resource consumption.


Egyptian empire
Persian empire
Han dynasty
Umayyad Caliphate
Mongol empire
Ottoman Empire
Spanish empire
Russian Empire
British Empire

All capitalist I presume???
/sarcasm

What organism doesn't want to grow? The self licking ice-cream cone has yet to be invented. Human empires will continue to cycle between growth and collapse. It won't matter what economic system they use.


Thats undoubtedly true.

AND even as we discuss this its entirely possible that our own modern global industrial civilization is also about to collapse.

Its not everyday you get to see an entire global civilization collapse.

Personally, I'm really enjoying show!

Image

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Re: Greta Thunberg

Unread postby Newfie » Sat 05 Nov 2022, 10:27:11

That is why discussing degrowth is important. Trying to engineer a soft crash vs. a full speed off the cliff crash. May well not be possible but don’t hurt, much, to think about it. :-D
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