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Government Shutdown USA

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Re: Government Shutdown USA

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Tue 22 Jan 2019, 17:17:56

Outcast_Searcher wrote:
vtsnowedin wrote:And of course that counts only those caught and convicted not the gang members still on the street.



I knew someone would make such a silly statement.

And your purported "facts" (equating to jingling keys to distract) don't even have a citation or link that I see. Funny how that works.

So crime statistics about the US native criminals don't have the same issue? (A huge proportion of US native criminals don't get quickly caught). NONSENSE.

And yeah, I know that being here illegally is a crime. That's a key reason I want something to be done about the issue. But that does NOT equate to them being murderers or rapists or drug dealers.

Now you're delving into specious speculation. How do you plan to come up with the "correct" numbers? Guessing? Bias? Counting angels dancing on heads of pins?

The data on convictions is the data. Denying it doesn't change the reality, any more than it does for the clowns who constantly claim economic doom is imminent, for no valid reason.

So you have to have a link before you can believe it? Couldn't check it for yourself? Well here is you link.
https://cis.org/Huennekens/DOJ-26-Feder ... Are-Aliens
And I never said all illegal aliens are criminals but apparently 27,000 of them are based on that report. Reason enough to secure the border by whatever means proves necessary.
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Re: Government Shutdown USA

Unread postby Newfie » Tue 22 Jan 2019, 18:41:33

Cog wrote “I’ve no idea which side.”

Makes two of us.

They have painted themselves into opposing corners.

Leaves room for some middleman to save the day, maybe.
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Re: Government Shutdown USA

Unread postby Cog » Tue 22 Jan 2019, 18:43:49

I'm waiting for one of the government unions to do a massive nationwide sick-out. That will happen eventually. The TSA or Air traffic control people doing it would certainly gets everyone's attention.
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Re: Government Shutdown USA

Unread postby Newfie » Tue 22 Jan 2019, 19:23:00

That would be interesting. Might play into Trumps hands, give him an excuse to declare a crisis, make an order to build the wall and move on. Give him the cover he needs.
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Re: Government Shutdown USA

Unread postby Newfie » Wed 23 Jan 2019, 11:06:43

Wapo artical today.

https://www.greenwichtime.com/opinion/a ... 553764.php

Trump's offer to hold off for three years on deporting 700,000 "dreamers" and more than 300,000 legal Central American and Haitian residents who have enjoyed temporary protected status in the United States - both of whom he has sought to strip of protections - may look like scant recompense for the $5.7 billion he wants as down payment on his border wall. Yet by coupling his own priority with that of many Democrats, he has constructively set the outlines, if not the terms, of a plausible compromise.
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Re: Government Shutdown USA

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Wed 23 Jan 2019, 12:22:01

Morning show (probably MSNBC) had Clare McCaskill ex senator from Missouri and she was saying the Trump proposed compromise had some "poison pills" written into it that made it a none starter. Apparently it does not occur to the Dems to put forward their own counter offer with out those poison pills or another set of their own to move the debate forward to a conclusion.
I'm a bit busy moving snow (dam you climate change) to research what she was going on about but I expect it will come out in time.
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Re: Government Shutdown USA

Unread postby Cog » Wed 23 Jan 2019, 13:42:40

The posion pills she is referring to are asylum rules. So that just because you crossed the border and touched American soil, doesn't make you eligible for asylum like it does now. Effectively banning you from claiming asylum if you don't do it at a port of entry. That sounds like a good change to me.
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Re: Government Shutdown USA

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Wed 23 Jan 2019, 16:11:07

Cog wrote:The posion pills she is referring to are asylum rules. So that just because you crossed the border and touched American soil, doesn't make you eligible for asylum like it does now. Effectively banning you from claiming asylum if you don't do it at a port of entry. That sounds like a good change to me.

Fine so debate it on it's merits, submit a counter offer. But yes that seems like something we should do but you have to have the votes.
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Re: Government Shutdown USA

Unread postby Cog » Wed 23 Jan 2019, 17:19:44

Democrats will never vote yes on that. They want the maximum number of illegals to become citizens as they can get. Its part of their overall strategy that no Republican party member will ever be elected president or have majorities in the House or Senate. Why do Democrats oppose putting the "Are you a citizen" on the 2020 census?
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Re: Government Shutdown USA

Unread postby Plantagenet » Wed 23 Jan 2019, 17:34:19

vtsnowedin wrote:debate it on it's merits, submit a counter offer.


The Ds hate Trump. They are refusing to debate or negotiate and they won't even let Trump give the state of union address.

The Ds are totally happy with the shutdown. They figure they've got Trump right where they want him right now. With the MSM blaming Trump for the shutdown, the Ds are just going to sit back and wait until Trump collapses and gives in.

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Re: Government Shutdown USA

Unread postby jedrider » Wed 23 Jan 2019, 18:41:16

“All Bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with amendments as on other Bills.”
— U.S. Constitution, Article I, section 7, clause 1

“No Money shall be drawn from the Treasury, but in Consequence of Appropriations made by Law; and a regular Statement and Account of the Receipts and Expenditures of all public Money shall be published from time to time.”
— U.S. Constitution, Article I, section 9, clause 7

The law is pretty clear on this. They can negotiate, but the origination is in the House.
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Re: Government Shutdown USA

Unread postby Cog » Wed 23 Jan 2019, 18:56:11

The funding bill is not a bill which raises taxes(revenue) so you are wrong. The border bill can originate in the Senate.

You really want to debate me on what the Constitution says jedirider? LOL Have at it.
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Re: Government Shutdown USA

Unread postby jedrider » Wed 23 Jan 2019, 19:42:28

Cog wrote:The funding bill is not a bill which raises taxes(revenue) so you are wrong. The border bill can originate in the Senate.

You really want to debate me on what the Constitution says jedirider? LOL Have at it.


Sorry, I'm NOT debating, as if you can DEBATE climate change, for instance. I just want to know the basis of the law, no debate or 'DEBATE' necessary, in fact ;-)

Anyway, a Republican tactic as amplified by Newt Gingrich in 1994 is NOW being used by Democrats. What goes around, comes around.

[P.S. Also, revenue does not get 'RAISED' anymore. The 'debt ceiling' gets 'RAISED' instead ;-)]
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Re: Government Shutdown USA

Unread postby Newfie » Fri 25 Jan 2019, 16:36:44

Pelosi “the President has learned his lesson.”

In response to Trump agreeing to a 3 week temporary spending bill.
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Re: Government Shutdown USA

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Fri 25 Jan 2019, 17:00:44

Trump has lost the wall battle. Other then confirming a few conservative judges all positive action by his administration is now at an end.
Look to China to invade Taiwan while the US government is in chaos and can't effectively come to their aid. Russia will also make moves to improve their position on several fronts.
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Re: Government Shutdown USA

Unread postby Plantagenet » Fri 25 Jan 2019, 17:29:36

vtsnowedin wrote:Trump has lost the wall battle. Other then confirming a few conservative judges all positive action by his administration is now at an end.


I think thats way too pessimistic.

Confirming lots of conservative judges to the federal bench is a substantive accomplishment all by itself in this day and age. AND if Trump gets another SCOTUS appointment, his impact on the bench will be substantial.

The Rs still control the Senate, so the Rs will still get a big say in all legislation coming out of Congress.

AND Trump and the Rs still control the administration, and they still control US foreign policy.

Cheers!
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Re: Government Shutdown USA

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Fri 25 Jan 2019, 17:54:58

Plantagenet wrote:
vtsnowedin wrote:Trump has lost the wall battle. Other then confirming a few conservative judges all positive action by his administration is now at an end.


I think thats way too pessimistic.

Confirming lots of conservative judges to the federal bench is a substantive accomplishment all by itself in this day and age. AND if Trump gets another SCOTUS appointment, his impact on the bench will be substantial.

The Rs still control the Senate, so the Rs will still get a big say in all legislation coming out of Congress.

AND Trump and the Rs still control the administration, and they still control US foreign policy.

Cheers!

No Trump does not have 61 votes in the Senate so can push nothing other then Judge confirmations through as we have seen in the last two years. Now with the Pelosie Dems in control of the house she is in fact the most powerful person in Washington and Trump will just have to sit back and take it. "It" will not be pleasant for Trump and his family.
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Re: Government Shutdown USA

Unread postby Plantagenet » Fri 25 Jan 2019, 18:04:51

vtsnowedin wrote:Trump does not have 61 votes in the Senate so can push nothing other then Judge confirmations through as we have seen in the last two years. Now with the Pelosie Dems in control of the house she is in fact the most powerful person in Washington


Pelosi can't pass any bills without getting them through the Senate (where Rs have a majority) and having them signed by Trump.

That requires bipartisan cooperation, something Pelosi isn't very good at.

Basically, Pelosi is a partisan fanatic. IMHO we'll have to wait and see just how powerful she turns out to be in this new era of divided power in DC. Yes, she won this first mano-a-mano duel with Trump, but Trump foolishly played right into her hands.

This first loss for Trump does't mean he will lose every subsequent battle. The Ds have a long history of overplaying their hand....they are so arrogant they often stumble in trouble that they make for themselves.

Cheers!
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Re: Government Shutdown USA

Unread postby Cog » Fri 25 Jan 2019, 18:34:44

If nothing else it shows that Democrats love illegals more than 800k federal workers and their families.
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Re: Government Shutdown USA

Unread postby jedrider » Fri 25 Jan 2019, 19:25:22

Trump and Republicans f*cked themselves. I predicted this stalemate would end last week because I thought these people had some sense of public outrage.

So, they had to wait that last week and see what outrage is all about. I don't think they'll try that again now, but I always underestimate stupidity.
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