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Government Shutdown USA

A forum for discussion of regional topics including oil depletion but also government, society, and the future.

Re: Government Shutdown USA

Unread postby Cog » Sat 19 Jan 2019, 18:05:33

The DACA, TPS, more border agents, chemical detection of drugs at ports of entry, and immigration judges, are specifically items that Dems have asked for in the past. Trump is offering to give them those. But he wants the wall. The Democrat position is zero dollars for a wall. How do you negotiate with that? Dems should take the other items on the list and offer him $3 billion and see if he will take that.
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Re: Government Shutdown USA

Unread postby jedrider » Sat 19 Jan 2019, 18:47:13

Cog wrote:The DACA, TPS, more border agents, chemical detection of drugs at ports of entry, and immigration judges, are specifically items that Dems have asked for in the past. Trump is offering to give them those. But he wants the wall. The Democrat position is zero dollars for a wall. How do you negotiate with that? Dems should take the other items on the list and offer him $3 billion and see if he will take that.


If 'Dems' asked for these things in the PAST, then why didn't they ALREADY get them? Think about it. If Trump can shut down government over an idiotic wall, then he can backpedal and shutdown government at every opportunity he gets if this is allowed to be his modus operandi.
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Re: Government Shutdown USA

Unread postby jedrider » Sat 19 Jan 2019, 18:56:54

Democrats to rule Democratically:

Democrats are doing a number of things to decentralize power from leadership and open up the process of legislating.

The rules package is an important statement that shows what issues Democrats are elevating in their first few weeks of the session and how they intend to govern over the next two years. Basically, Democrats are trying to show they will behave much differently than House Republicans have over the past eight years.


House Democrats are making changes to decentralize power
https://www.vox.com/2019/1/2/18165057/house-democrats-rules-package-pelosi

Seems that Democrats are getting better press nowadays and the shutdown is still being blamed on Trump (who, in fact, already has blamed himself several times, not that anything he says really matters).
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Re: Government Shutdown USA

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Sat 19 Jan 2019, 19:09:41

Except that Pelosi and Trump are locked in a power struggle, right now. This one is for the game and all the marbles. Whichever party caves on the Wall loses big in 2020.

So far, I haven't been even inconvenienced by the shutdown. The wife has, she's a CPA and tax preparer, and the IRS and their tax regulation database are offline.

What frosts my butt is that the USCG families are not getting paid. But they still have to perform their missions.
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Re: Government Shutdown USA

Unread postby Cog » Sat 19 Jan 2019, 19:28:43

@jedirider

Trump didn't offer them this deal in the hopes that the Dems would take it. He already knew they wouldnt. It's to fix the blame on Dems as open borders advocates who don't care about those 800k laid off workers. Politics is just another form of warfare.

I'm fine with a quarter of the federal government being laid off. Hopefully some will quit. The Ebt riots will just add to the Dems woes.
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Re: Government Shutdown USA

Unread postby Newfie » Sat 19 Jan 2019, 19:59:08

I think that’s exactly correct. I don’t think either Trump or Pelosi care much about border security, DACA, or the shut down. This is a personal fight. It’s about power and status.
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Re: Government Shutdown USA

Unread postby Cog » Sat 19 Jan 2019, 20:21:55

Like KJ said, I do feel sorry for the active duty Coast guard. They are military and can't quit or collect unemployment like other federal workers can. I would have McConnell float a separate funding bill just for them and dare the Democrats to vote against it.
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Re: Government Shutdown USA

Unread postby Newfie » Sat 19 Jan 2019, 20:41:58

It’s happened before under Treasury. I didn’t experience it but knew those that did. It must have been between about 1955 and 1970. When the service was under Treasury. Can’t find anything about it on internet. But it is NOT the first time.

See also this.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washin ... f_amp=true
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Re: Government Shutdown USA

Unread postby Cog » Sun 20 Jan 2019, 06:59:55

The Democrat argument is that we will discuss border security but only after the government is reopened. Why can't they talk about it now? It's not like the House seems busy. Pelosi was getting ready for a week long junket overseas with other Democrat congressmen. The week before they were chilling out in Puerto Rico.

An offer is on the table. The Dems can make a counter offer. This is how legislation is done in a divided Congress. What's the hold up Nancy?
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Re: Government Shutdown USA

Unread postby Cog » Sun 20 Jan 2019, 11:14:19

19 year old 8 month pregnant Honduran on her way to the US border. Getting ready to drop her anchor baby with us so we can care for it.

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Re: Government Shutdown USA

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Sun 20 Jan 2019, 14:08:45

I just need to point out a few things.

1) The Wall that has not been built has harmed nobody.

2) Trump completed his budget request as required by law. Nobody has debated it in the House. The Senate willl most likely vote this week.

3) Pelosi's government shutdown is harming a great many people.
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Re: Government Shutdown USA

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Sun 20 Jan 2019, 15:32:25

KaiserJeep wrote:3) Pelosi's government shutdown is harming a great many people.

Spoken like a true partisan hack. Pretending Trump doesn't at least own a big chunk of the shutdown just isn't credible.

I'm a moderate and no fan of Pelosi OR Trump, BTW.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: Government Shutdown USA

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Sun 20 Jan 2019, 15:41:17

Cog wrote:The Democrat argument is that we will discuss border security but only after the government is reopened. Why can't they talk about it now? It's not like the House seems busy.

How about how much the shutdown is costing taxpayers? Funny, you usually don't like big government and expenses and big debt. So it's only acceptable if it helps with your political stance? That makes you no different in principle re spending, than dems pushing for ever more social programs paid for by other peoples' money.

How about all the people not getting paid and the harm it is causing their families? A couple weeks is one thing, but as this drags on, it causes them understandable angst. Not a problem if it doesn't affect your family?

How about the taxpayers who can't get IRS assistance as tax season ramps up? With new tax laws in place, that's rather inconvenient for millions of people who try to do their own taxes.

It's time to get government back to functioning, stop wasting money, and for both sides to act like adults. If Trump wants to put pressure on illegal immigration, a virtual wall preventing illegals from getting jobs would be FAR more effective than a partial physical wall anyway -- especially in a world with ladders, boats, and other borders into the US. Oh, and airports.

For the umpteenth time -- the biggest problem is people overstaying their visas. If they can't get legal US jobs, the economic incentive to overstay goes away.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: Government Shutdown USA

Unread postby Cog » Sun 20 Jan 2019, 15:53:33

I don't care if the shutdown lasts forever. Hopefully the federal workers will quit in mass.

Good job on giving excuses to the Democrats for not attempting to negotiate an end to this.

Sorry your girl lost. She would have got right to this.

Outcast Searcher is so anguished about people getting late paychecks but doesn't give a damn how many citizens are raped and murdered by these illegals. Cause after all, it doesn't affect him now does it? You are such a hypocrite.
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Re: Government Shutdown USA

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Sun 20 Jan 2019, 16:04:07

Cog wrote:I don't care if the shutdown lasts forever. Hopefully the federal workers will quit in mass.

Good job on giving excuses to the Democrats for not attempting to negotiate an end to this.

Sorry your girl lost. She would have got right to this.

Outcast Searcher is so anguished about people getting late paychecks but doesn't give a damn how many citizens are raped and murdered by these illegals. Cause after all, it doesn't affect him now does it? You are such a hypocrite.

If the best you can do is spew the far right lies pretending like all, or even a huge proportion of illegals are rapists and murders:

1). That's pretty pathetic.

2). You clearly are earning the racist accusations you get around here.

Congrats. :roll:

For example:

https://qz.com/1227461/trumps-immigrati ... nd-murder/

Or google "proportion of illegal immigrants who are rapists or murders".

But clearly you aren't interested in facts re this issue.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: Government Shutdown USA

Unread postby Cog » Sun 20 Jan 2019, 16:06:24

I was waiting for the racist throwdown from you. Its so predictable. Is Mexico a race? I El Salvador a race? No numbnuts, its a nationality. But as usual, your leftist ideology can't deal with the fact the USA is being invaded. So pathetic you are.

Oh and sorry your girl lost. Maybe Cortez an avowed communist is more your style.

Here you go outcast. Can she stay at your house? Maybe your wife needs a maid.

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Re: Government Shutdown USA

Unread postby Newfie » Sun 20 Jan 2019, 16:11:59

OK guys, cool rhetoric, stay on topic, on point. Refute with logic and reason.
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Re: Government Shutdown USA

Unread postby Cog » Sun 20 Jan 2019, 16:14:21

When someone calls me a racist Newfie, I'm not going to let that slide.
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Re: Government Shutdown USA

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sun 20 Jan 2019, 16:24:17

I've got some logic and reason to bring to this topic. OK...here goes!

Outcast_Searcher wrote:It's time to get government back to functioning, stop wasting money, and for both sides to act like adults....Trump.....


I agree with you that we need to get the government open again, but I don't see why Trump gets all the blame.

Why do Nancy Pelosi and the Ds get a pass when they won't even negotiate with Trump? Trump was in the White House waiting to negotiate while Nancy Pelosi took off to a $900/night post resort in Hawaii. Then Trump was in the White House while Nancy Pelosi and the Ds flew off to Puerto Rico to lie on the beach and meet with lobbyists. And most recently Trump was in the White House trying to negotiate while Nancy Pelosi was planning to fly off to Europe and Egypt for a big government paid. boondoggle with a large group of Ds And now Trump has made a compromise offer to reopen the government and Nancy Pelosi and the Ds immediately rejected it.

Meanwhile the shutdown drags on and on while Nancy travels and parties on.

It seems to me that Trump is trying to negotiate and reach a compromise to get the government open again while Nancy and the Ds are holding out for total victory, no matter how long it takes.

Cheers!

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The Ds would rather shut down the government then give ICE more money for border security. I don't think that is logical or reasonable.
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Re: Government Shutdown USA

Unread postby Cog » Sun 20 Jan 2019, 16:36:35

This whole idea that you don't want millions of illegals in your country makes you a racist is something that the left pushes all the time. If you have a country, you are entitled to make the case that there should be a system in place to allow them in legally through a process. I don't give a damn if they are brown, yellow, white, or purple. You are here legally or you are not.

People who throw out the racist argument when it comes to people here illegally are the worse sort of hyprocrite. They have lost the argument and resort to name calling.

I thought better of you Outcast Searcher. I thought you could make a logical argument but instead you resort to the gutter. I'm actually sad you turned out to be what I thought you were not.
Last edited by Cog on Sun 20 Jan 2019, 16:40:06, edited 1 time in total.
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