[vtsnowedin]

AOC's Green New Deal would have us end all fossil fuel use by 2030 at a cost of 93 Trilliondollars and contains not one word about nuclear power expansion. Biden's A Clean Energy Revolution," Stretches things out to 2050 and a promised cost of 7 trillion and also does nothing positive with nuclear energy.
So the leaders shouting the most about climate change are the ones keeping us from doing anything practical about it.
AOC is rummered to be planning to run for President in 2024 on her Green new Deal platform.

[Doly]

So the leaders shouting the most about climate change are the ones keeping us from doing anything practical about it.

It's true that nuclear needs to be part of the mix, but don't forget that nuclear fuel isn't renewable, either. It's a stopgap measure.

[vtsnowedin]

So the leaders shouting the most about climate change are the ones keeping us from doing anything practical about it.

It's true that nuclear needs to be part of the mix, but don't forget that nuclear fuel isn't renewable, either. It's a stopgap measure.

Yes but it can stop a very big gap.

[AdamB]

So the leaders shouting the most about climate change are the ones keeping us from doing anything practical about it.

It's true that nuclear needs to be part of the mix, but don't forget that nuclear fuel isn't renewable, either. It's a stopgap measure.

Hubbert's estimate of stopgap, for those unfamiliar with his important quantification on this topic.

[Newfie]

AOC's Green New Deal would have us end all fossil fuel use by 2030 at a cost of 93 Trilliondollars and contains not one word about nuclear power expansion. Biden's A Clean Energy Revolution," Stretches things out to 2050 and a promised cost of 7 trillion and also does nothing positive with nuclear energy.
So the leaders shouting the most about climate change are the ones keeping us from doing anything practical about it.
AOC is rummered to be planning to run for President in 2024 on her Green new Deal platform.

Because it is not about Climate Change it is a Trojan Horse for other ends.

[rdberg1957]

We need base power which doesn't depend on wind and sun, both of which may be altered by climate change. Nuclear seems to be the best bet and designs have improved to lower risks. Germany abandoned nuclear power, the US has shelved it and not approved new nuclear plants. I don't know what will be required to alter the trajectory set by leadership.

[mousepad]

I don't know what will be required to alter the trajectory set by leadership.

That's easy. A few brown- and blackouts over the years can change all.
But nuclear is not the solution. The solution is LESS. Less work, less production, less consumption, less population, less contamination.
Hydroelectric power should be the only baseload source we use, augmented with local solar and wind. That's the power envelope we should be living within.

[Newfie]

^+1

What is most likely to happen is we will continue to ignore CC until we are FORCED to confront it. Then there will be a CC Manhattan Project, which likely won’t work, then things will get VERY real. But I will be long dead by then.

[vtsnowedin]

We need base power which doesn't depend on wind and sun, both of which may be altered by climate change. Nuclear seems to be the best bet and designs have improved to lower risks. Germany abandoned nuclear power, the US has shelved it and not approved new nuclear plants. I don't know what will be required to alter the trajectory set by leadership.

Actually I think a couple of new nuclear power plants are being constructed in the US right now. Small ones so not enough to make a difference but perhaps they will change public opinion.

[vtsnowedin]

Hydroelectric power should be the only baseload source we use, augmented with local solar and wind. That's the power envelope we should be living within.

The math does not work for that projection. There is only so much water falling X number of feet between the mountains and the sea and most of the really viable ones are already in use to full potential. You would not want to live in a world where that was the only base load power.

[AdamB]

Hydroelectric power should be the only baseload source we use, augmented with local solar and wind. That's the power envelope we should be living within.

The math does not work for that projection. There is only so much water falling X number of feet between the mountains and the sea and most of the really viable ones are already in use to full potential. You would not want to live in a world where that was the only base load power.

[vtsnowedin]

Hydroelectric power should be the only baseload source we use, augmented with local solar and wind. That's the power envelope we should be living within.

The math does not work for that projection. There is only so much water falling X number of feet between the mountains and the sea and most of the really viable ones are already in use to full potential. You would not want to live in a world where that was the only base load power.

Yah go ahead and go vegan bike riding wok. You will all freeze to death while starving in mid winter. I choose a better path forward. One that can actually be achieved. Perhaps a majority of sensible people will take control of things and save your pimpled A$$es from the fate you are striving for.

[AdamB]

Yah go ahead and go vegan bike riding wok. You will all freeze to death while starving in mid winter.

What a silly idea! I am approaching elder status, and quite happy with non CO2 emitting nuke plants.

I choose a better path forward. One that can actually be achieved. Perhaps a majority of sensible people will take control of things and save your pimpled A$$es from the fate you are striving for.

You appear to have mistaken the sarcasm so apparent in the image for some form of reality, when all I was doing was pointing out the effective CO2 NOT emitted by actions that do...and don't...matter.

[vtsnowedin]

You appear to have mistaken the sarcasm so apparent in the image for some form of reality, when all I was doing was pointing out the effective CO2 NOT emitted by actions that do...and don't...matter.

Yes I did mistake it. I only looked at the first panel and assumed you were for it.

[AdamB]

You appear to have mistaken the sarcasm so apparent in the image for some form of reality, when all I was doing was pointing out the effective CO2 NOT emitted by actions that do...and don't...matter.

Yes I did mistake it. I only looked at the first panel and assumed you were for it.

Let me tell you about meat!

[vtsnowedin]

Got to fire up the grill real soon myself.

[careinke]

Hydroelectric power should be the only baseload source we use, augmented with local solar and wind. That's the power envelope we should be living within.

The math does not work for that projection. There is only so much water falling X number of feet between the mountains and the sea and most of the really viable ones are already in use to full potential. You would not want to live in a world where that was the only base load power.

Dams are being "Targeted" and torn down in Washington state to save the salmon. So don't expect a lot more hydro power in the US.

Unfortunately, it is not being as effective as hoped. Evidently runoff from your tires may have the most negative impact on rebuilding salmon populations.

[mousepad]

Hydroelectric power should be the only baseload source we use, augmented with local solar and wind. That's the power envelope we should be living within.

The math does not work for that projection.

Of course the math works out.
total_power_use = population * individual_power_use

Since the total power available is limited, we can reduce individual power or reduce population.
Maybe it's time to go back to 2W radios instead of 200W TVs, and at the same time stop insane mass immigration? But I guess big screen TV and a growing economy is more important than climate. The answer is not MORE of the same, but LESS of everything.

[vtsnowedin]

Hydroelectric power should be the only baseload source we use, augmented with local solar and wind. That's the power envelope we should be living within.

The math does not work for that projection.

Of course the math works out.
total_power_use = population * individual_power_use

Since the total power available is limited, we can reduce individual power or reduce population.
Maybe it's time to go back to 2W radios instead of 200W TVs, and at the same time stop insane mass immigration? But I guess big screen TV and a growing economy is more important than climate. The answer is not MORE of the same, but LESS of everything.

Presently hydro power provides just 2.6% of our total energy consumption natural gas 36% and coal 11%. Using just 2.6 % of what we use now even with local solar and wind would put us back to the middle ages.

[mousepad]

Hydroelectric power should be the only baseload source we use, augmented with local solar and wind. That's the power envelope we should be living within.

The math does not work for that projection.

Of course the math works out.
total_power_use = population * individual_power_use

Since the total power available is limited, we can reduce individual power or reduce population.
Maybe it's time to go back to 2W radios instead of 200W TVs, and at the same time stop insane mass immigration? But I guess big screen TV and a growing economy is more important than climate. The answer is not MORE of the same, but LESS of everything.

Presently hydro power provides just 2.6% of our total energy consumption natural gas 36% and coal 11%. Using just 2.6 % of what we use now even with local solar and wind would put us back to the middle ages.

I think that's why it's so important to increase solar/wind while GRADUALLY reduce population. We don't want to go back to the middle age, but I think we also don't want to foolishly gamble away the planet's health just because we want big screen TV.

War can come quickly, as we've seen in the ukraine. And civil war in the US might be remote, but not unthinkable. I wouldn't want to have 10k nuclear reactors needing constant maintenance in a crumbling society, no matter how safe they are in normal times.

We don't own the planet, we merely loan it from our kids. Let's make sure we return it in good condition.