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Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 20

Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 20

Unread postby clif » Thu 24 Jan 2019, 08:20:27

They want nothing more than the destruction of capitalism itself.


Capitalism has already been destroyed. There is NO price discovery in the markets around the planet. The central banks in Europe, Japan, the USA and China made sure the money for helping the stock markets recover from their criminal behaviour pre 2008 and keeping the rigged system going to up the "price" of stocks irregardless of the real wealth of the underlying corporation means there is NO true market. This was done by increasing both public and private debt all around the planet, while making sure the people who held most of the wealth paid in less and less to the system that they benefit the most from.

No true market, no capitalism, at least as Adam Smith describes it.

It was destroyed by the very same people slithering around Davos this week. The politicos are bought and paid for people, they do the bidding of those who control them.

In the USA that resulted in a tax cut where the very rich make off like thieves, while most of the rest of the country end up paying more in both higher costs for the government services, lost benefits and a continuing of their fiscal situation. This at the very same time while the government through the federal reserve kept interest rates abnormally low, and M-6 money supply higher than normal by the Federal reserve buying and holding assets, especially the ones already under water. Hint the 2008 massive debt problem has NOT been resolved, just allowed to be turned into a public debt problem instead of a wall street debt problem

You can put away your fairy tale about the supposed communists killing capitalism, the "masters of the universe on wall street and their collaborators in both the FED and other regulatory agencies combined with their facilitators in Washington mostly in the GOP killed it.

They killed it by allowing the 2002-2008 bubble to grow, and instead of allowing the capitalist system to do the dirty work necessary to fix the corrupt and rigged system they build since 1980, they papered over the truth by injecting huge amounts of money in both FED purchases at the same time keeping rates abnormally low, to create a bubble even larger that the pre 2008 bubble, IE more debt to help cover up the debt that has been increasing ever since ronnie raygun put the country on a steady diet of debt to blow bubbles in ever increasing sizes to <i>create wealth</i> for the rich to play with.

Sorry but sever since Alan Greenspan was selected to head the fed, blowing ever larger bubbles and out-sourcing the US middle class has been the main avenues of wealth creation in the US. BTW don't give me the BULLSH*T excuse the internet and IT revolution saved us, because most of that has already been outsourced less than a decade after it began to influence the GDP of the country.

SO you can quit straining to push your fairytales cause it already happened while you cheered on the clueless traitors who made it happen.

PS tRump ain't honest nor smart enuf to fix it, and only cares about his bottom line anyway, i have known far too many people who worked for him in the 80-90's. he is just as crooked today as he was back them, but instead of sponging off US bankers to declare bankruptcy, he helps the russians launder their money. Has been doing that ever since daddy's hundreds of millions of dollars disappeared in his 90's bankruptcies.

McConnell is far too crooked to do anything about it since he became a multi millionaire helping the bastards do exactly what I described. Mitch is beholden to the corporate billionaires who fund him and the politicos who return their bribes er I mean campaign donations with ever larger tax cuts.


Until we re-level the playing field, and make work worth more than wall street paper games to create wealth(increase the debt until hell freezes over), the system will continue to deteriorate. AGW/peak oil will do a lot to make that happen because most of the wall street paper games of creating wealth through privatising the profits and politicizing the debt (IE making sure tax cuts are always allowed, and cuts only happen when forced, then only in ways that do not harm the rich, and forcing larger sectors of the public into crushing debt senarios)... fail when the system collapses because of either loss of the energy to run the system for profits based on extracting energy from ancient sunlight no longer creates enuf free energy to make the wall street paper games profitable .... and /or ...the system can no longer create enuf goods and services especially basic necessaries for the mass of the population to stay involved with the wall street paper games by increasing debts that no one can honestly think will ever be paid off, both public and private.

Either way capitalism is just another walking dead idea of the past. Dead but propped up because people who play paper games can still game the economy with larger and larger amounts of debt (paper games) both public and private that cannot honestly be expected to ever be paid off given the increasing climate destruction combined with the shrinking energy supplies vs still increasing populations.
How cathartic it is to give voice to your fury, to wallow in self-righteousness, in helplessness, in self-serving self-pity.
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 20

Unread postby dissident » Thu 24 Jan 2019, 12:34:44

Humans can't run societies and all organizations exhibit corruption rot. That is why cornucopians and utopia fantasists are deluded idiots. Whatever system you have, even if it works for a while, will eventually collapse. Unfortunately for humanity it has muddled into a civilization collapse at the worst possible time. It seems that whatever fragment of it survives the looming climate apocalypse will be back in the stone age.
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Before the flood, the stone ages

Unread postby Whitefang » Fri 25 Jan 2019, 03:33:22

dissident wrote:Humans can't run societies and all organizations exhibit corruption rot. That is why cornucopians and utopia fantasists are deluded idiots. Whatever system you have, even if it works for a while, will eventually collapse. Unfortunately for humanity it has muddled into a civilization collapse at the worst possible time. It seems that whatever fragment of it survives the looming climate apocalypse will be back in the stone age.


Power makes corrupt and it clearly shows after the rise of large scale agriculture, idiocy of pyramids/temples/palaises...kings and queens, up to industry and mass consumption.
There really is no need for large institutions to guide or rule ourselves, no need for laws, no need to ask anyone what is right and wrong.
All the social stupidity is a result of a rotten internal dialogue that we humans inherit when growing up, each of us ends up within a personal world of boredom, indulgence, fear and terror. Our true nature is not as stupid as we do, we act, literate or not.
Not that our physical makeup and social surrounding have influence on our decisions, what we choose to do, but our thinking, our dialogue with ourselves, our internal war, our own jihad, is what makes us our personal petty little self. The battle of our two minds. Mediëval illiterate or modern western genius prof, we all act retarded, our human present condition.
That is why all systems cannot have the answer, it is a personal internal affair.
Key is silencing your dialogue and saving personal power, bit by bit.
Thing is we are running out of time, fast and we are in dire need for an overhaul, a true rebirth.
We need to take our power back, true power, the personal one, before we are history :roll:

Stone age sounds not that bad at all, no place for a king or queen, everybody equal in material things, individuals in a group working together to survive and thrive, defy death and see how far they can go. Some say they had open contact with the supernatural, two way open door with other worlds, magic and wonder. Find the spirit.

Back to CC, I see this collective with our backs against the wall, ELE, a serious last chanche, motivation to really change.
Yes we can!!!! :-D

I do think the second flood is upon us, terrible and yet, some very good may come, a new start, a new life, a new aera, a new world order, not the illuminati kind, people that gave in completely to forces they do not understand, petty little tyrants.
We do need to prepare, into the wild I think, less people, more trees. Hunt and gather for survival like the stone ages.
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 20

Unread postby GASMON » Fri 25 Jan 2019, 05:17:14

Report in UK newspaper The Independant today

CO2 levels expected to rise rapidly in 2019, Met Office scientists warn
'Worrying' results as greenhouse gas reaches record levels due to burning fossil fuels and dry landscapes unable to suck it up


https://www.independent.co.uk/environme ... 44911.html

Gas
The truth is sometimes incorrect
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Planet B

Unread postby Whitefang » Fri 25 Jan 2019, 06:07:49

I like that pic of some protestor with "no planet B" on his forehead :-D
Bit late to change things now, irriversible abrupt CC happening but the intent to change your lifestyle towards sobriety, care for oneself and others counts, every step, every act little or big decisions to go for freedom, personal power is one that matters.

Plan B, head for the mountains where our last forests are.
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Re: Planet B

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Fri 25 Jan 2019, 06:31:15

Whitefang wrote:.

Plan B, head for the mountains where our last forests are.

That would be very bad for the forests.
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 20

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Fri 25 Jan 2019, 07:08:30

I'm thinking about the differences between ,What needs to be done?, What will be done? and what can be done?
Obviously three very different things.
I read somewhere today that one thing that needs to be done (in their opinion) is to stop all oil ,gas and coal exploration and development by 2020 just a year from now. Obviously that is not going to happen. Nor will the human population halve itself as some feel is necessary as nobody is volunteering to be the half that goes.
So I'm pretty sure ,What will be done? will be way too little and way late.
What could be done on the other hand has a lot of possibilities. Wholesale exodus to the forests not among them.
We need to concentrate our efforts where they will do the most good so we must turn to where the most waste and pollution occurs first. My first two targets would be suburban sprawl and generica style shopping strips and shopping malls. We should stop building cookie cutter housing developments of McMansions miles from town centers work places or services. Instead we should move people into centered. communities where housing ,work place , schools ,and stores are all within walking distance of each other. There is no reason that a fast food restaurant, or pharmacy or doctors office , need be in a separate building and several multi story (perhaps ten floors each being the optimum height) buildings surrounding a central square could have everything needed cradle to grave. And of course every roof top and every parking area will be covered with solar panels. Electric cars only of course.
One trick will be not having these centrally planned communities end up looking like Soviet style warehousing or American 70's style HUD projects.
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 20

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Fri 25 Jan 2019, 12:26:09

You seem to be under the entirely mistaken opinion that somebody somewhere is in charge of the things you mentioned. In fact, nobody is in charge, all the elements of a Capitalist economy are and must be independent. Chaos theory rules. Nothing is ever going to happen that goes against the personal interests of those who own the lands, businesses, energy companies, and financial institutions.

That is reality and it's not changing because you wish it to do so.
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 20

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Fri 25 Jan 2019, 13:24:02

KaiserJeep wrote:You seem to be under the entirely mistaken opinion that somebody somewhere is in charge of the things you mentioned. In fact, nobody is in charge, all the elements of a Capitalist economy are and must be independent. Chaos theory rules. Nothing is ever going to happen that goes against the personal interests of those who own the lands, businesses, energy companies, and financial institutions.

That is reality and it's not changing because you " is wish it to do so.

So you agree with me about what will happen?
MY " could happen" is unlikely even though market forces in a post peak world (either by physical shortages or government regulation) would push people that way I expect there will be a lot of resistance to it.
Of course I'm a very rural type that abhors urban conditions so others might look at it a lot more favorably then I.
It is merely a suggestion of one possible course that could markedly reduce fossil fuel use and CO2 emissions that wouldn't involve Draconian conditions or genocide.
Got any better ideas?
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 20

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Fri 25 Jan 2019, 14:07:07

I'll see that and raise you. I believe the last of the oil will be reserved for growing food for the cities. When urban life becomes unbearably expensive, people will die in deteriorating cities rather than move to the country. 200 years ago, 98% of the US citizens were farmers. Because of technology, in 200 years 98% of farm labor will be BEV farm robots. The cities will be reduced but not gone. The new aristocracy will be the corporations owning the farms. Here's the new thought: the remaining Middle Class will be suburbanites, and a popular lifestyle will be "gentleman farmer", people who grow luxury foodstuffs, weed, and brew or distill microbrews, spirits, and regional wines.
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 20

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Fri 25 Jan 2019, 14:39:05

KaiserJeep wrote:You seem to be under the entirely mistaken opinion that somebody somewhere is in charge of the things you mentioned. In fact, nobody is in charge, all the elements of a Capitalist economy are and must be independent. Chaos theory rules. Nothing is ever going to happen that goes against the personal interests of those who own the lands, businesses, energy companies, and financial institutions.

That is reality and it's not changing because you wish it to do so.

Except that there is no purely capitalist system. Certainly not the US.

It's a mixture of capitalism and socialism.

Do you really think the rich owners at the top of the food chain WANT a $15 minimum wage, even where it isn't needed (like low cost rural areas)? Or that they WANT Liz Warren to confiscate 3% of their wealth every year -- on top of all the other taxes they pay? Or they WANT a 70% income tax rate, courtesy of the democratic socialists? Or even talk of such ideas, which could well lead to much higher taxes on the wealthy after 2020?

When libertarianism is the dominant party and the level of government regulations is rapidly falling over time instead of relentlessly rising, we can check back in on whether we're remotely approaching being a "purely capitalist system".
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Unread postby Whitefang » Fri 25 Jan 2019, 15:28:23

Indeed VT,

It would get overcrowded in the wild if we all did two steps back, from modern to medieval to hunter gatherer, a tiny group needs a large area to sustain itself.
I just thought of hiding a while, years/decade or so until collapse of world now is over, then regroup, rebuild from scratch.
The unprepared will die, some in cities might survive who knows?
Even the well prepared, physicly in excellent shape, survivalists or special forces have no certainty to make it, death will be around every corner for a while.

I think your idea's are fine after things settle down and there is still a way to make it work, maybe small scale farming, local water/food/trading with neighbours.
Abrupt CC is not going to stop until a new stable state is achieved and we are just at the start of the shift.
The first concern now is how to survive collapse, survival of you and your family/friends.
Would be great to keep our knowledge intact, store it somewhere like the seed vault on Spitsbergen.
We should all make use of current means, tools/infrastructure for as long as we possibly can.
My African doomstead on top of the Rif will be ready this year, plenty wood/chicken/water etc etc but no way to defend it so I will not even try, we got dogs though/iron bars for the windows/double doors…...even with machine guns it is bound to get overrun.
At the end I would put most of my eggs in BC Canada, love to be a Smithereen near that Cassiar hwy headed for the Yukon wild.


vtsnowedin wrote:I'm thinking about the differences between ,What needs to be done?, What will be done? and what can be done?
Obviously three very different things.
I read somewhere today that one thing that needs to be done (in their opinion) is to stop all oil ,gas and coal exploration and development by 2020 just a year from now. Obviously that is not going to happen. Nor will the human population halve itself as some feel is necessary as nobody is volunteering to be the half that goes.
So I'm pretty sure ,What will be done? will be way too little and way late.
What could be done on the other hand has a lot of possibilities. Wholesale exodus to the forests not among them.
We need to concentrate our efforts where they will do the most good so we must turn to where the most waste and pollution occurs first. My first two targets would be suburban sprawl and generica style shopping strips and shopping malls. We should stop building cookie cutter housing developments of McMansions miles from town centers work places or services. Instead we should move people into centered. communities where housing ,work place , schools ,and stores are all within walking distance of each other. There is no reason that a fast food restaurant, or pharmacy or doctors office , need be in a separate building and several multi story (perhaps ten floors each being the optimum height) buildings surrounding a central square could have everything needed cradle to grave. And of course every roof top and every parking area will be covered with solar panels. Electric cars only of course.
One trick will be not having these centrally planned communities end up looking like Soviet style warehousing or American 70's style HUD projects.
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 20

Unread postby Newfie » Fri 25 Jan 2019, 16:20:52

Cog wrote:Lots of money doesn't begin to describe it. They want nothing more than the destruction of capitalism itself. Which many on this board favor as well.


That would include me.
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 20

Unread postby GHung » Fri 25 Jan 2019, 17:02:05

Newfie wrote:
Cog wrote:Lots of money doesn't begin to describe it. They want nothing more than the destruction of capitalism itself. Which many on this board favor as well.


That would include me.


Since capitalism on a finite planet is inherently self-destroying, I fail to see what Cog's gripe is. It doesn't matter much what others may favor or not.

Maybe he doesn't know his false God very well.
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 20

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Fri 25 Jan 2019, 17:24:23

GHung wrote:
Since capitalism on a finite planet is inherently self-destroying,

I think that point is false. A capitalist faced with a limit to supply will compete at finding ways to use less of the limited resource and or find substitutes to that resource. They will not just throw up their hands and surrender because they ran out of unobtainium. :)
I think capitalism will survive in spite of all efforts to snuff it out. It's basic rules are founded in human nature and like gravity can not be dismissed. Socialism on the other hand pretends that people will work equally for an equal share promised once they see that they are not judged to be as equal as the leaders.
Not that the present US government has not had it's capitalist roots corrupted by many well intended socialist programs and self serving gifts to the rich and powerful. But that is not pure capitalism and if it fails with or without the help of the socialists the true capitalists will rise up and shake the ashes off their heads and begin anew.
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 20

Unread postby GHung » Fri 25 Jan 2019, 17:51:16

vtsnowedin wrote:
GHung wrote:
Since capitalism on a finite planet is inherently self-destroying,

I think that point is false. A capitalist faced with a limit to supply will compete at finding ways to use less of the limited resource and or find substitutes to that resource. They will not just throw up their hands and surrender because they ran out of unobtainium. :)
I think capitalism will survive in spite of all efforts to snuff it out. It's basic rules are founded in human nature and like gravity can not be dismissed. Socialism on the other hand pretends that people will work equally for an equal share promised once they see that they are not judged to be as equal as the leaders.
Not that the present US government has not had it's capitalist roots corrupted by many well intended socialist programs and self serving gifts to the rich and powerful. But that is not pure capitalism and if it fails with or without the help of the socialists the true capitalists will rise up and shake the ashes off their heads and begin anew.


Whoosh. Like a true capitalist, you totally disregard waste streams. And capitalism (as we know it) is profit-based system requiring growth and surpluses to counter entropy. I'm not saying it can't/won't morph into something else, but it won't look like Cog's capitalism.

It's basic rules are founded in human nature and like gravity can not be dismissed....


Human nature is not a physical law. It's a combination of genetics, culture, and behavioral norms. Those can, will, and must change. When it's in individuals' and collectives' interests to change, they will, or whatever systems they exist in will change beyond the point where they can continue to support said humans. See climate change. We'll either adapt to that, or not. The Planet doesn't care either way, especially about silly capitalism vs socialism binary arguments.

There's a lot of magical thinking going on here.
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 20

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Fri 25 Jan 2019, 18:03:28

GHung wrote:Human nature is not a physical law..

Of course not but it changes very slowly if at all. Just look at two babies in a playpen reaching a toy in the center. Hasn't changed in three million years.
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 20

Unread postby GHung » Fri 25 Jan 2019, 18:36:40

vtsnowedin wrote:
GHung wrote:Human nature is not a physical law..

Of course not but it changes very slowly if at all. Just look at two babies in a playpen reaching a toy in the center. Hasn't changed in three million years.


Assuming you're right, human nature has gotten plenty of societies into deep shit, some to the point of dramatic and sudden change, many to the point of extinction. What, pray tell, here in the age of global consequences, makes you think we are somehow different. Normalcy bias? Cognitive dissonance? American hubris?
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 20

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Fri 25 Jan 2019, 21:09:05

GHung wrote:
vtsnowedin wrote:
GHung wrote:Human nature is not a physical law..

Of course not but it changes very slowly if at all. Just look at two babies in a playpen reaching a toy in the center. Hasn't changed in three million years.


Assuming you're right, human nature has gotten plenty of societies into deep shit, some to the point of dramatic and sudden change, many to the point of extinction. What, pray tell, here in the age of global consequences, makes you think we are somehow different. Normalcy bias? Cognitive dissonance? American hubris?

Perhaps you miss my point. The capitalist if working in a capitalist system can expect that if they work harder and produce more will receive more for their efforts then if they just coasted along getting by. This drives the ambitious and the hungry to actually produce a saleable product and as much of it as they can.
Working for a corporation puts limits on the options the worker can employ, some would say to limit his rewards and others would say to limit his mistakes but if collapse happens all that government and corporate structure disappears and pure capitalism remains . If you produce it you can use it or sell it if you wish and if you don't produce you will starve.
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Deep adaptation, Jem Bendell

Unread postby Whitefang » Sat 26 Jan 2019, 06:56:32

It is happening, part of humanity is waking up. Great, just wonderful, beauty found as a result of tragedy.
Death is the central issue of life, the motivator to act, drink and eat and such but also giving meaning and beauty to existence, of us being here and now, a temporal flare of awareness hunting for the part we lost and faintly remember. This terrible thing, abrupt CC can change our focus now fixed on deep penetration and more and more complex machines that will never satisfy our needs.
This can make us look out for the spirit again, and find it given enough time before collapse.
This can make us save real energy, personal power kind, the only thing that really matters.
Not just a lone wolf guy or girl but groups, scientists wondering together with other people about what to do, how to cope with disaster on a global scale, inviting you to think for yourself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vwbanH ... tion=share


GW seems to impact fertility, stress for woman giving birth to more females, impact on seed:

https://paulbeckwith.net/

Two truisms on rapid climate change are that a) it affects just about everything, and b) it is happening much faster than expected.
With a) in mind, it is no surprise that climate change is affecting the ratio of male-to-female newborn babies. With temperature rise, there are more male babies born. However with acute stress to pregnant woman from weather extremes like floods, droughts, hurricanes, tornadoes, torrential rains as well as from other external events like earthquakes, tsunamis, and war, there are fewer male babies born. I chat on this.
———- ———-

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/scie ... 17186.html

Another linky on deep penetration, sperm and GW.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0tTE0DZ_60

Ongoing 2019 climate disruption is fast and furious. Abrupt climate system change cares not about human affairs, structures, politics, our livelihoods, and our precious but precarious civilizations. Disruption accelerates at ever faster rates wreaking havoc on our lives, with huge consequences. Media coverage on climate disruption, weather extremes, etc. in the main-stream is better, but often inaccurate; while risks and consequences are significantly downplayed.



Connecting the dots :-D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K63iqvv1VZ0

Jan 15, 2019 - Burnout - The Toll of Studying Climate Change,
Jan 18, 2019 - Doug Peacock and Guy in Tucson AZ



Researching the end of the world :oops:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMbeYJgH_6g

Please Subscribe and Share our http://ScientistsWarning.TV
READ PSYCHOLOGICAL SUPPORT NOTES THAT FOLLOW

This presentation from November 5, 2018 was delivered to the 'Foresight Group' of the EU Commission in Brussels, Belgium. The assessment of our global prospects is extremely severe. The conclusions may be upsetting and perhaps life-changing for many. But the conclusions should not be taken in lightly.

PSYCHOLOGICAL SUPPORT NOTES
I chose to keep this video in 'Unlisted' mode for 10 weeks because I felt that it would be a hard pill to swallow for most people, and that some emotional support needed to be provided when I finally presented it.

Well, now is the time, and I think in a way the set of http://ScientistsWarning.TV programs I produced in Poland at COP-24 ARE the emotional support, especially the ones with Greta Thunberg, our little 'truth-teller' extraordinaire. So please watch them and Subscribe.
Reality is quite a complex affair. I hold that we might achieve some measure of what is energetically referred to as 'redemption' if we (individually and collectively) were to 'repent' of our wasteful, abusive ways. I 'quote' those words since I don't want them to evoke the standard religious interpretations. I use them more in the sense of morally and energetically re-balancing our psyches in harmony with the natural world.
So watch this video as a though it were an 'oracle' of one possible, perhaps probably future. Take the questions it raises seriously. Take them to 'heart', so to speak. Then be in your heart ('coeur' in French) with courage to face the future with equanimity, and perhaps change the future with your intention and your heart.
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