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Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 20

Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 20

Unread postby yellowcanoe » Thu 20 Dec 2018, 16:20:12

Tanada wrote:
When modern economists talk about how 'useless' Canadian and Alaskan and Siberian lands are for agriculture in the warming world of the 21st century they are mostly talking about the fact that because the land was never under cultivation in the past none of the prepratory work needed for modern agriculture has been done yet. Yet all of that potential is right there, for anyone who looks at the whole picture instead of the 6 months to 12 month modern agricultural industrial cycle.


Sorry, I am not buying the suggestion that there is large amounts of land in Canada that could be developed for agriculture. Land to the north of existing farmland in Quebec, Ontario and Prairie provinces is generally the Canadian Shield which is characterized by shallow, nutrient poor soils. Areas within the Canadian Shield that are suitable for agriculture, such as the clay belt in Northern Ontario, have already been developed. One of the tragedies of the development of central Ontario is that 150 years people did not understand that country underlain by Precambrian igneous rock was a poor place to farm despite the fact that the land was then covered by mature forest. The provincial government developed a number of colonization roads into the highlands north of Toronto and west of Ottawa with the intention of opening up the area to agriculture. Those who attempted to farm this land had to contend with an enormous amount of work to clear the land of trees and rocks only to find that the productivity of the land was poor and deteriorated quickly as the few nutrients were used up. Farms were abandoned, especially after the completion of the Canadian Pacific Railway in 1885 which provided easy access to the vastly superior farmland on the prairies.
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 20

Unread postby jawagord » Thu 20 Dec 2018, 16:50:41

yellowcanoe wrote:
Tanada wrote:
When modern economists talk about how 'useless' Canadian and Alaskan and Siberian lands are for agriculture in the warming world of the 21st century they are mostly talking about the fact that because the land was never under cultivation in the past none of the prepratory work needed for modern agriculture has been done yet. Yet all of that potential is right there, for anyone who looks at the whole picture instead of the 6 months to 12 month modern agricultural industrial cycle.


Sorry, I am not buying the suggestion that there is large amounts of land in Canada that could be developed for agriculture. Land to the north of existing farmland in Quebec, Ontario and Prairie provinces is generally the Canadian Shield which is characterized by shallow, nutrient poor soils. Areas within the Canadian Shield that are suitable for agriculture, such as the clay belt in Northern Ontario, have already been developed. One of the tragedies of the development of central Ontario is that 150 years people did not understand that country underlain by Precambrian igneous rock was a poor place to farm despite the fact that the land was then covered by mature forest. The provincial government developed a number of colonization roads into the highlands north of Toronto and west of Ottawa with the intention of opening up the area to agriculture. Those who attempted to farm this land had to contend with an enormous amount of work to clear the land of trees and rocks only to find that the productivity of the land was poor and deteriorated quickly as the few nutrients were used up. Farms were abandoned, especially after the completion of the Canadian Pacific Railway in 1885 which provided easy access to the vastly superior farmland on the prairies.


It won't be new land that goes into production it will be existing land becoming much more productive. Longer growing seasons, warmer night time temperatures (that's 2/3 of global warming), more CO2 in the atmosphere all promote plant growth, higher yielding crops, and multiple crops per growing season. Similar to the way American corn growers have taken advantage of some minor climate shifts, Canadian farmers stand to benefit greatly from global warming if the vast Canadian prairies develop a growing season like southern Ontario.

https://www.insidescience.org/news/how- ... ate-change
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 20

Unread postby onlooker » Thu 20 Dec 2018, 17:08:46

Actually, several factors work negatively for crops with higher CO2 levels
https://www.skepticalscience.com/co2-plant-food.htm
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 20

Unread postby Tanada » Thu 20 Dec 2018, 17:33:46

dohboi wrote:T, I know it was old. That was kind of the point. That KJ was bringing up a problem that people in these kinds of fora have been discussing for years. I would be greatly interested to know what the update of an article like this would look like, as your posts are always thoughtful, and generally well informed.

On the soils of northern parts of North America, though, I have always heard that they were mostly scraped away by glaciers and deposited in what are now the rich fields of Iowa, but also as far north as the southern strip of Canada.

Has that theory been overturned? Can you site some soil science about your claims that land in the north is as fertile as the current grain belt is? And don't you bump up against increasing problems with season length for many crops?


I will take the soil depth issue first. Look at this map,
Image
Then compare it with this map,
Image
In theory both maps show exactly the same thing, the regional boundaries of the Canadian Shield with its thinner soils. However anyone looking can clearly discern a vast difference in those boundaries amounting to millions or even tens of millions of acres of land.

Now go back to the first map and notice the broad orangish yellow stripe labeled 'interior plains'. That entire region has the same deep rich soils that stretch from Missouri in the south all the way to the coast of the Arctic Ocean in the north. Today there is very limited infrastructure in that vast region, though Canada has from time to time gone on infrastructure improvement sprees the last one was around World War II when the Alaska Highway was built.

In addition to the 'interior plain' note the green and medium blue regions labeled 'Hudson bay lowlands' and 'arctic lowlands'. These regions tend to have deep but wet soils that in many cases will be below sea level once Greenland melts. However the parts that don't become submerged will be excellent if drained.

As for your question on season length the real answer is that depends on how you define season. If you mean days between March 21 and September 21 that are frost free in a warmer world then you get one answer, but if you mean number of hours of sunlight you get while temperatures are 10C/50F between March and September you get a totally different answer. Because of the curvature of the Earth the day length on any particular date is completely dependent on latitude. The northern end of the broad stripe of 'interior plains' gets nearly continuous sunlight for close to eight weeks every summer, and in a warmer world those eight weeks will be above the threshold temperature for growing many crops like Potato or Barley that have served as food staples for different cultures for thousands of years.

These are in part the reasons I have been stressing the need to get our act together to adapt rather than constantly ringing the bell saying we are all doomed and doing nothing to prepare for a future that will be very different from the present. Much like the issue of the Canadian Shield soil depth, a fact that has been repeated so often that most people accept it as applying to the entirety of Canada without ever pausing to ask just how much land is NOT over the Canadian Shield?

One last thing, the area marked 'Cordillera' are the many mountains and valleys of the Canadian Rockies. These sorts of climate areas are typically used for hunting/fishing/herding livestock rather than raising row crops. Vegan or not it is a fact that most people eat meat, and meat comes from places where row crops are less able to grow for the most part. Sure CAFO operations stink and pollute, but for most of the planet most of the time they are not how meat is produced. They are popular in the USA today because the excess corn and soy production makes feeding cattle grains and beans cheap, but that situation is nothing like permanent. As world population continues to grow demand for corn and beans as human food will keep growing and that will ripple through as increased costs for using those products as cattle feed in CAFO operations.
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 20

Unread postby jawagord » Thu 20 Dec 2018, 17:53:41

onlooker wrote:Actually, several factors work negatively for crops with higher CO2 levels
https://www.skepticalscience.com/co2-plant-food.htm


You can choose to believe 30 years of crop data assembled in a study published by a reputable science organization or you can get you contrary opinion from a website blog that uses homely analogies like:

However, this "more is better" philosophy is not the way things work in the real world. There is an old saying, "Too much of a good thing can be a bad thing." For example, if a doctor tells you to take one pill of a certain medicine, it does not follow that taking four is likely to heal you four times faster or make you four times better. It's more likely to make you sick.

Every study I have read shows increased plant growth for plants exposed to higher levels of CO2, some studies show a drop in nutrient value, I not disputing that could be the case for some plants, however this problem is solvable by applying fertilizers to get the correct balance for optimal growth and nutrient uptake, which is exactly what most farmers do now.
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 20

Unread postby onlooker » Thu 20 Dec 2018, 18:45:21

We can talk just about fertile areas in the US or CO2 levels but the Science is pretty clear that warming will have an overall devastating impact on global agriculture. Beyond, the negative effects of destructive weather we have "The World Bank issued an unprecedented warning about the threat to global food supplies in a 2012 report, “Turn Down the Heat: Why a 4°C Warmer World Must be Avoided.” The Bank noted that the latest science was “much less optimistic” than what had been reported in the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change’s 2007 Fourth Assessment report:

These results suggest instead a rapidly rising risk of crop yield reductions as the world warms. Large negative effects have been observed at high and extreme temperatures in several regions including India, Africa, the United States, and Australia. For example, significant nonlinear effects have been observed in the United States for local daily temperatures increasing to 29°C for corn and 30°C for soybeans. These new results and observations indicate a significant risk of high-temperature thresholds being crossed that could substantially undermine food security globally in a 4°C world."
And of course limitations of heat tolerance among many crops



https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 7207000871

 http://theyearsproject.com/ask-joe/will-climate-change-affect-agriculture-ability-feed-worlds-growing-population/
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 20

Unread postby GHung » Thu 20 Dec 2018, 19:14:11

Farming in northern Canada currently isn't a big thing.

Yukon and the Northwest Territories agricultural trends

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/95- ... 10-eng.htm
................................

Oats are the leading crop

Just over one-quarter (25.9%) of all farms in Yukon and the Northwest Territories reported growing field crops. Field crop area increased by 5.4% from 2011 to 1,405 acres in 2016. Although the area seeded with oats declined 36.8% from 2011, it remained the largest field crop (647 acres) in Yukon and the Northwest Territories. Dried field peas increased from no acres in 2011 to 73 acres in 2016.
Total area of land in fruits, berries, and nuts doubles

The total area of land in fruits, berries and nuts increased 104.4% from 2011 to 64 acres in 2016. This area included 9 acres of Saskatoon berries and 7 acres of raspberries.

The greenhouse flower and vegetable production area declined 40.4% from 2011 to 42,043 square feet in 2016. The largest area under glass was dedicated to vegetables, followed by flowers.
Turkey inventory and turkey production increase

Turkey inventory in Yukon and the Northwest Territories increased by 43.1% from 2011 to 289 birds in 2016, with the number of farms reporting turkey inventory doubling to 12 farms.

Turkey production in Yukon and the Northwest Territories increased by 124.2% from 2010 to 5,174 kilograms in 2015. The number of farms reporting turkey production more than tripled to 16.

In terms of livestock, farms reporting cattle accounted for 8.9% of all farms in Yukon and the Northwest Territories, down from 9.4% in 2011. Farms reporting pigs accounted for 18.4% of all farms in Yukon and the Northwest Territories, up from 5.7% in 2011. The number of farms reporting some livestock increased 5.8% to 91.
Poultry and egg farms account for over two-fifths of gross farm receipts in Yukon and the Northwest Territories

Poultry and egg type farms in Yukon and the Northwest Territories generated $4.4 million in gross farm receipts in 2015, accounting for 44.2% of all gross farm receipts.

Overall, the agricultural sector in Yukon and the Northwest Territories generated $10.0 million in gross farm receipts while incurring $8.8 million in operating expenses. On average, for every dollar in sales, farms had 88 cents in expenses in 2015 for an expense-to-receipt ratio of 0.88. This ratio was 0.86 in 2010.

Statistics Canada would like to thank the farming community of Yukon and the Northwest Territories for their participation and assistance in the 2016 Census of Agriculture.
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 20

Unread postby pstarr » Thu 20 Dec 2018, 19:49:49

GHung wrote:Farming in northern Canada currently isn't a big thing.

I beg to differ :x Alaska has some big (however butt-ugly) cabbages.
Image
"The work of Cabbage Fairies may have helped Steve Hubacek grow the giant cabbage winner at the 2014 Alaska State Fair."
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 20

Unread postby pstarr » Thu 20 Dec 2018, 19:49:49

GHung wrote:Farming in northern Canada currently isn't a big thing.

I beg to differ :x Alaska has some big (however butt-ugly) cabbages.
Image
"The work of Cabbage Fairies may have helped Steve Hubacek grow the giant cabbage winner at the 2014 Alaska State Fair."

It is a well-known, and oft-repeated fact that 24-hour sunlight can grow a very serious cabbage, known the world-over for it's incredible kraut.
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 20

Unread postby dissident » Thu 20 Dec 2018, 20:05:18

The soil discussion is detached from reality. Soils in the Arctic and sub-Arctic are more closely related to peat than to prime chernozems. Prime soils form in the correct climactic zones where there is enough rain and warmth for substantial accumulation of carbon in the form of degraded and refractory organic molecules. As noted above, it is also essential to have a clay fraction with diverse mineral make-up (that would entail accumulation from rock erosion over very long periods of time). A few inches of loam and sand over bedrock is not equivalent to a chernozem belt.

Warming and thawing of permafrost will lead to rapid oxidation of the peat-like soils. The carbon will come out as CO2 and CH4 and will not form high quality soils. The notion that agricultural belts will move north is absurd. The soil will not get up and start walking. Perhaps in several thousand years increased biotic activity will leave better soil deposits, but some things will never happen. The repeated glaciation events over Canada have scoured the land of its original soil and deposited it in the USA. This is one of the reasons that the soil in substantial regions is a thin layer of loam and sand over bedrock. The lighter carbon and silt-clay fractions have been plowed away.
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 20

Unread postby GHung » Thu 20 Dec 2018, 20:24:50

pstarr wrote:
GHung wrote:Farming in northern Canada currently isn't a big thing.

I beg to differ :x Alaska has some big (however butt-ugly) cabbages.
Image
"The work of Cabbage Fairies may have helped Steve Hubacek grow the giant cabbage winner at the 2014 Alaska State Fair."

It is a well-known, and oft-repeated fact that 24-hour sunlight can grow a very serious cabbage, known the world-over for it's incredible kraut.



Leafy green vegetables respond well to long photo-periods and cool weather. Maybe our offspring will be eating lots of sauerkraut, eh? I was just looking at the stats from Yukon and NW Territory. Not much going on there, large scale, agriculturally. Soil? Climate? Better places to farm I guess.
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 20

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Thu 20 Dec 2018, 20:46:58

GHung wrote:Farming in northern Canada currently isn't a big thing.

Yukon and the Northwest Territories agricultural trends

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/95- ... 10-eng.htm
................................

Oats are the leading crop

Just over one-quarter (25.9%) of all farms in Yukon and the Northwest Territories reported growing field crops. Field crop area increased by 5.4% from 2011 to 1,405 acres in 2016. Although the area seeded with oats declined 36.8% from 2011, it remained the largest field crop (647 acres) in Yukon and the Northwest Territories. Dried field peas increased from no acres in 2011 to 73 acres in 2016.
Total area of land in fruits, berries, and nuts doubles

The total area of land in fruits, berries and nuts increased 104.4% from 2011 to 64 acres in 2016. This area included 9 acres of Saskatoon berries and 7 acres of raspberries.

The greenhouse flower and vegetable production area declined 40.4% from 2011 to 42,043 square feet in 2016. The largest area under glass was dedicated to vegetables, followed by flowers.
Turkey inventory and turkey production increase

Turkey inventory in Yukon and the Northwest Territories increased by 43.1% from 2011 to 289 birds in 2016, with the number of farms reporting turkey inventory doubling to 12 farms.

Turkey production in Yukon and the Northwest Territories increased by 124.2% from 2010 to 5,174 kilograms in 2015. The number of farms reporting turkey production more than tripled to 16.

In terms of livestock, farms reporting cattle accounted for 8.9% of all farms in Yukon and the Northwest Territories, down from 9.4% in 2011. Farms reporting pigs accounted for 18.4% of all farms in Yukon and the Northwest Territories, up from 5.7% in 2011. The number of farms reporting some livestock increased 5.8% to 91.
Poultry and egg farms account for over two-fifths of gross farm receipts in Yukon and the Northwest Territories

Poultry and egg type farms in Yukon and the Northwest Territories generated $4.4 million in gross farm receipts in 2015, accounting for 44.2% of all gross farm receipts.

Overall, the agricultural sector in Yukon and the Northwest Territories generated $10.0 million in gross farm receipts while incurring $8.8 million in operating expenses. On average, for every dollar in sales, farms had 88 cents in expenses in 2015 for an expense-to-receipt ratio of 0.88. This ratio was 0.86 in 2010.

Statistics Canada would like to thank the farming community of Yukon and the Northwest Territories for their participation and assistance in the 2016 Census of Agriculture.
So out of half a million square miles in the NW territories they only grow oats on less then two square miles? (640 acres per square mile). That tells you a lot.
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 20

Unread postby jawagord » Thu 20 Dec 2018, 20:56:09

onlooker wrote:We can talk just about fertile areas in the US or CO2 levels but the Science is pretty clear that warming will have an overall devastating impact on global agriculture. Beyond, the negative effects of destructive weather we have "The World Bank issued an unprecedented warning about the threat to global food supplies in a 2012 report, “Turn Down the Heat: Why a 4°C Warmer World Must be Avoided.” The Bank noted that the latest science was “much less optimistic” than what had been reported in the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change’s 2007 Fourth Assessment report:

These results suggest instead a rapidly rising risk of crop yield reductions as the world warms. Large negative effects have been observed at high and extreme temperatures in several regions including India, Africa, the United States, and Australia. For example, significant nonlinear effects have been observed in the United States for local daily temperatures increasing to 29°C for corn and 30°C for soybeans. These new results and observations indicate a significant risk of high-temperature thresholds being crossed that could substantially undermine food security globally in a 4°C world."
And of course limitations of heat tolerance among many crops



https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 7207000871

 http://theyearsproject.com/ask-joe/will-climate-change-affect-agriculture-ability-feed-worlds-growing-population/


I don't find an abstract of a 2007 paper making predictions of much value compared to a 2018 study looking back at 30 years of data. Farmers are adaptable, food production continues to go up, despite whatever temperature rise the planet has had over the last 100 years and production will continue to go up, the 4C mean temperature rise is a fantasy, science fiction, hasn't happened, and won't happen in my opinion because the oceans have a 1000x the heat capacity of the atmosphere and will absorb increased atmospheric heat (as its doing now) preventing large mean temperature rise.
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 20

Unread postby Tanada » Fri 21 Dec 2018, 08:44:23

So I write a detailed post about how AS THE CLIMATE WARMS CONDITIONS WILL CHANGE and what I get back is essentially, "nobody farms there its too cold".

The topic of this thread is GLOBAL WARMING for pity's sake!
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 20

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Fri 21 Dec 2018, 10:16:11

Tanada wrote:So I write a detailed post about how AS THE CLIMATE WARMS CONDITIONS WILL CHANGE and what I get back is essentially, "nobody farms there its too cold".

The topic of this thread is GLOBAL WARMING for pity's sake!

We pointed out it is not just about temperature change. There are soil, water and length of daylight issues that can't be overcome.
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 20

Unread postby GHung » Fri 21 Dec 2018, 10:27:18

vtsnowedin wrote:
Tanada wrote:So I write a detailed post about how AS THE CLIMATE WARMS CONDITIONS WILL CHANGE and what I get back is essentially, "nobody farms there its too cold".

The topic of this thread is GLOBAL WARMING for pity's sake!

We pointed out it is not just about temperature change. There are soil, water and length of daylight issues that can't be overcome.


Water issues will be overcome. They'll just deplete their aquifers like they are doing in the plains states. Soil issues? Throw gigatons of fossil fuel based fertilizers at that problem. Length of daylight (photoperiod)? Genetically engineer new varieties that love long days.

See? Problems solved. :-D
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 20

Unread postby dohboi » Fri 21 Dec 2018, 10:47:21

Thanks, T, for spelling out your position more carefully.

Isn't there a big swath of waste now in the middle of your "Interior Plain Zone" where they have been surface strip mining tar sands?

I would also still like to see stats on soil depth and quality from those areas, not just a pretty colored map or two.

On your last point, I am not quite as optimistic that economics and demographics will drive a decrease in meat and dairy consumption. If we lived in a rational world, maybe, but we don't. Population has continued to grow over the last four decades, and malnourishment is still at around one billion people. But meat and dairy consumption continue to rise around the world.

If you're so sure the Yukon is the growth region for future farming, you should start investing in land up there. If not, one wonders why you hesitate to 'put your money where your mouth is.'
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 20

Unread postby GHung » Fri 21 Dec 2018, 10:57:12

dohboi wrote:.........

If you're so sure the Yukon is the growth region for future farming, you should start investing in land up there. If not, one wonders why you hesitate to 'put your money where your mouth is.'


Heck, you don't have to invest (as in buy) farm land in the Yukon:

Canada's Yukon offers free land if you're willing to farm the north

TORONTO (Thomson Reuters Foundation) - In Canada’s far north, the government of Yukon Territory wants to attract small farmers to the frigid region with a simple pitch: free land.

And as global warming makes Canada’s northern regions more hospitable to agriculture by opening once frozen land to farming, the opportunities are growing.

Bordering on Alaska in northwestern Canada, the Yukon has given away nearly 8,000 acres (3,208 hectares) of farmland in the past decade, a senior government official told the Thomson Reuters Foundation. A dozen new applications are under consideration.

Now is a good time to start farming in the Yukon, say government officials.

“Our territory is expected to get wetter and warmer,” said Rod Jacob, a government official with the Department of Energy, Mines and Resources in the capital Whitehorse.

“We may see opportunity with an increased growing season,” Jacob told the Thomson Reuters Foundation in an email. .......
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cana ... SKBN1AA27M
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 20

Unread postby dohboi » Sat 29 Dec 2018, 10:16:50

Capitalism Killed Our Climate Momentum, Not “Human Nature”

https://theintercept.com/2018/08/03/cli ... -magazine/

...one could scarcely imagine a more inopportune moment in human evolution for our species to come face to face with the hard truth that the conveniences of modern consumer capitalism were steadily eroding the habitability of the planet. Why? Because the late ’80s was the absolute zenith of the neoliberal crusade, a moment of peak ideological ascendency for the economic and social project that deliberately set out to vilify collective action in the name of liberating “free markets” in every aspect of life.

...what at first seemed like our best shot at lifesaving climate action had in retrospect suffered from an epic case of historical bad timing. Because what becomes clear when you look back at this juncture is that just as governments were getting together to get serious about reining in the fossil fuel sector, the global neoliberal revolution went supernova, and that project of economic and social reengineering clashed with the imperatives of both climate science and corporate regulation at every turn.

...meeting the challenge of climate change would have required imposing stiff regulations on polluters while investing in the public sphere to transform how we power our lives, live in cities, and move ourselves around.

All of this was possible in the ’80s and ’90s (it still is today) — but it would have demanded a head-on battle with the project of neoliberalism, which at that very time was waging war on the very idea of the public sphere (“There is no such thing as society,” Thatcher told us). Meanwhile, the free trade deals being signed in this period were busily making many sensible climate initiatives — like subsidizing and offering preferential treatment to local green industry and refusing many polluting projects like fracking and oil pipelines — illegal under international trade law...

"We have not done the things that are necessary to lower emissions because those things fundamentally conflict with deregulated capitalism, the reigning ideology for the entire period we have been struggling to find a way out of this crisis. We are stuck because the actions that would give us the best chance of averting catastrophe — and would benefit the vast majority — are extremely threatening to an elite minority that has a stranglehold over our economy, our political process, and most of our major media outlets. That problem might not have been insurmountable had it presented itself at another point in our history. But it is our great collective misfortune that the scientific community made its decisive diagnosis of the climate threat at the precise moment when those elites were enjoying more unfettered political, cultural, and intellectual power than at any point since the 1920s. Indeed, governments and scientists began talking seriously about radical cuts to greenhouse gas emissions in 1988 — the exact year that marked the dawning of what came to be called “globalisation.”"

..."Beyond capitalism, *humankind* is fully capable of organizing societies to thrive within ecological limits.”

...But simply blaming capitalism isn’t enough. It is absolutely true that the drive for endless growth and profits stands squarely opposed to the imperative for a rapid transition off fossil fuels. It is absolutely true that the global unleashing of the unbound form of capitalism known as neoliberalism in the ’80s and ’90s has been the single greatest contributor to a disastrous global emission spike in recent decades, as well as the single greatest obstacle to science-based climate action ever since governments began meeting to talk (and talk and talk) about lowering emissions. And it remains the biggest obstacle today, even in countries that market themselves as climate leaders, like Canada and France.

But we have to be honest that autocratic industrial socialism has also been a disaster for the environment, as evidenced most dramatically by the fact that carbon emissions briefly plummeted when the economies of the former Soviet Union collapsed in the early 1990s. And as I wrote in “This Changes Everything,” Venezuela’s petro-populism has continued this toxic tradition into the present day, with disastrous results.

Let’s acknowledge this fact, while also pointing out that countries with a strong democratic socialist tradition — like Denmark, Sweden, and Uruguay — have some of the most visionary environmental policies in the world...
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 20

Unread postby dohboi » Sun 30 Dec 2018, 11:15:25

Overview of some of the beyond-extreme weather events this year, all very likely exacerbated by CC:

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/20 ... a7bf5b4479
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