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Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 19

Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 19

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sun 01 Jul 2018, 00:54:11

Airlines push for approval to greatly increase their CO2 emissions

airlines-eye-massive-carbon-handout

The airlines are pushing to greatly increase their CO2 emissions. Their plan is to use pre-2016 carbon offset credits---which don't actually reduce carbon emissions----to "offset" their future increases in CO2 emissions.

This is why I never like the idea of carbon credits. We need to REDUCE global CO2 emissions----not play games with "credits" and "offsets" as a way to cover up big INCREASES in global CO2 emission.

This games the airlines are playing is just another "greenwashing" scam like the Paris Climate Accords.

Image
The airlines are seeking approval to greatly increase their CO2 emissions

Cheers!
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 19

Unread postby ralfy » Sun 01 Jul 2018, 01:26:16

energy investor wrote:"Contradictory nonsense" has to rule in order to believe that :

1. A trace gas that comprises 0.04 of 1 percent of the atmosphere can dictate warming or cooling on this planet.
2. The polar bears are dying due to global warming while in fact their numbers have almost doubled since 1950.
3. The North pole ice is melting away to nothing while Greenpeace ships keep getting stuck in the ice in late summer in recent years and two supertankers need ice breakers to leave port in Russia this week!
4. The raw satellite data shows the global atmosphere has cooled by 0.5 degrees since 2016.
5. Since we started into the Eddy Grand Solar Minimum we have had two lousy Northern hemisphere winters and the snow in Northern Sweden never melted last summer. What is that? Glaciation? Or are you going to come out of the rabbit hole and argue that it is global warming.
6. We can have exponential growth on a finite planet. Anyone who believes this can believe anything.

I am confused as to who the deniers are. The blinkered AGW adherents or those who are sceptical?

I think the last word goes to the media who have started referring to summer snow as "white rain". Don't deny that it is snowing dumb-asses. Accept that nature knows best. Snow is snow and bull shit is bull shit.

If you find these truths painful, I hope you won't be suicidal when it starts getting colder.


According to the NAS, CO2 does not act as the main cause of warming but a forcing factor.

Polar bear population should not be used as an indicator of global warming as various plant and animal species populations can go up or down given various circumstances.

North pole ice will obviously not melt into nothing because the planet has several seasons. The question is at one point will it be ice-free during summers.

Global warming is not based on two-year trends.

One source shows that solar irradiation and surface temperature anomaly has been moving in opposite directions.

The problem with media is that it sometimes confuses climate with weather, such that there's no global warming because it's snowing, because North pole ice increased today, or that warming is supposed to move in a clean, linear direction.

In the end, deniers and skeptics who will not look at things both ways are those know little about the issue.
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 19

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 02 Jul 2018, 12:52:19

New study shows that past global climate changes were mainly caused by CO2 in the atmosphere

greenhouse-gases-main-driver-climate

Several things can theoretically cause the climate to change, but this study shows that Eocene warming was clearly caused by increasing CO2 in the atmosphere.

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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 19

Unread postby M_B_S » Tue 03 Jul 2018, 02:57:42

@ plantagenet

Nothing new @ all.... but thx for the link.
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 19

Unread postby onlooker » Tue 03 Jul 2018, 14:49:33

https://www.globalcovenantofmayors.org/ ... _Final.pdf
"Billions of people in thousands of cities around the world will be at risk from climate-related heatwaves, drought, flooding, food  shortages,  blackouts  and  social  inequality by  mid-century without  bold  and urgent  action  to  reduce  greenhouse  gas  emissions."
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 19

Unread postby dohboi » Thu 05 Jul 2018, 07:35:19

Global warming may be twice what climate models predict

A new study based on evidence from past warm periods suggests global warming may be double what is forecast.

Future global warming may eventually be twice as warm as projected by climate models and sea levels may rise six metres or more even if the world meets the 2°C target, according to an international team of researchers from 17 countries.

The findings published last week in Nature Geoscience are based on observational evidence from three warm periods over the past 3.5 million years when the world was 0.5°C-2°C warmer than the pre-industrial temperatures of the 19th Century.

The research also revealed how large areas of the polar ice caps could collapse and significant changes to ecosystems could see the Sahara Desert become green and the edges of tropical forests turn into fire dominated savanna.

“Observations of past warming periods suggest that a number of amplifying mechanisms, which are poorly represented in climate models, increase long-term warming beyond climate model projections,” said lead author, Prof Hubertus Fischer of the University of Bern.

“This suggests the carbon budget to avoid 2°C of global warming may be far smaller than estimated, leaving very little margin for error to meet the Paris targets.”

To get their results, the researchers looked at three of the best-documented warm periods, the Holocene thermal maximum (5000-9000 years ago), the last interglacial (129,000-116,000 years ago) and the mid-Pliocene warm period (3.3-3 million years ago).

The warming of the first two periods was caused by predictable changes in the Earth’s orbit, while the mid-Pliocene event was the result of atmospheric carbon dioxide concentrations that were 350-450ppm – much the same as today.



“Climate models appear to be trustworthy for small changes, such as for low emission scenarios over short periods, say over the next few decades out to 2100. But as the change gets larger or more persistent, either because of higher emissions, for example a business-as-usual-scenario, or because we are interested in the long term response of a low emission scenario, it appears they underestimate climate change,” said co-author Prof Katrin Meissner, Director of the University of New South Wales Climate Change Research Centre.

“This research is a powerful call to act. It tells us that if today’s leaders don’t urgently address our emissions, global warming will bring profound changes to our planet and way of life – not just for this century but well beyond.”

https://phys.org/news/2018-07-global-climate.html

In the recent IPCC draft they upped the remaining carbon budget by a bit…guess we can remove that again.

Recently we also learned cloud feedback which is the main culprit for the 1.5-4 C warming spread in projections will itself lead to 3 C warming. For more details on that see:

https://cosmosmagazine.com/climate/how- ... al-warming
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 19

Unread postby GASMON » Thu 05 Jul 2018, 10:07:22

Climate change SHOCK: Animals responsible for causing global warning study says
SCIENTISTS investigating the causes of global warming have shockingly claimed climate change may have been caused by the evolution of marine wildlife more than 500 million years ago.


https://www.express.co.uk/news/science/ ... mals-ocean

What will "they" discover next ???

Gas
The truth is sometimes incorrect
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 19

Unread postby M_B_S » Thu 05 Jul 2018, 13:14:15

Yes GAS we are animals too! SHOCK

;)

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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 19

Unread postby dissident » Thu 05 Jul 2018, 17:24:51

GASMON wrote:Climate change SHOCK: Animals responsible for causing global warning study says
SCIENTISTS investigating the causes of global warming have shockingly claimed climate change may have been caused by the evolution of marine wildlife more than 500 million years ago.


https://www.express.co.uk/news/science/ ... mals-ocean

What will "they" discover next ???

Gas


You must be a moron if you only read the headline. Cattle CH4 is not the sole cause of greenhouse gas increases on the planet. By far, human activity (economy) is the prime source of the increasing greenhouse gases. BTW, genius, stripping the Amazon for cattle ranching is a prime activity of humans and their economic activity. And, also, sunshine, "they" have known about various sources of CH4 and CO2 long before you were born.
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 19

Unread postby dohboi » Fri 06 Jul 2018, 15:09:08

This reminds me of an article that got passed around a lot in the early days of the gw issue and republished, that proclaimed loudly that it was termites that were responsible for a significant portion of the increase in CO2 and CH4.

A student of mine checked out the sources and found that the increase in said termite activity was largely because of deforestation due to human activity.

But the idiots just keep re-treading the same tired old tires and hoping someone will be fooled.
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 19

Unread postby onlooker » Fri 06 Jul 2018, 15:45:17

The lack of education related to CC issues is astonishing and in the entire Hard Science field. Mostly to due to poor education I would surmise. But, then combine that with the reluctance of people to digest these more doomerish issues and people will go to extremes to confirm their own bias. Including. yes bogus theories and garbage data. And its a free country we all can believe what we want. No higher authority would ever dare to insinuate that these "beliefs" are full of BS.
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 19

Unread postby dohboi » Fri 06 Jul 2018, 17:55:59

I think it's more about 'willful ignorance' than actual lack of education in the sciences, in most cases. IIRC, political affiliations and identities have much more to do with whether one accepts the science of Climate Change than does actual training in the sciences.

My uncle was the dean of a major medical school and did important research in hematology, but in his old age he read the opinion page of the WSJ religiously, and apparently believed every word, in spite of his vast knowledge of science.
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 19

Unread postby Newfie » Fri 06 Jul 2018, 20:26:30

Unfortunatly I agree with Dohboi. Ive now met a couple of engineers who have seen the light but more that stick to their rusty guns.

Recently a friend denied sent me a WSJ article that had a blatant miss characterization of the facts. I pointed it out to him and he just said, more or less, “I didn’t understand that and I figure they know what they are talking about.” Well no they don’t, and neither does he. But I’ll never change his mind. Yet we get along well in high stress situations and appreciate one another’s company and opinion. Go figure.
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 19

Unread postby Plantagenet » Fri 06 Jul 2018, 20:41:41

Paleoclimate data suggests global warming will be about twice as big as current climate models suggest

lessons-future-warmer-world

The next few decades are going to be really interesting. :) 8)

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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 19

Unread postby dohboi » Sat 07 Jul 2018, 08:36:50

Yeah, I saw that elsewhere. Thanks for linking it, P.

Newf: good points. It makes it all the more impressive to see that some political conservatives here have been able to look past the blinders that most others on the right have apparently put over their eyes on these issues.
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 19

Unread postby M_B_S » Sat 07 Jul 2018, 12:43:01

Image

Dr. Paul Beckwith :!: :idea: :arrow:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rra0aBOwyUo
Massive Deadly Heatwaves: A Consequence of Abrupt Climate Change
**************

Heat and the beat to death

The Good, the Bad & the Ugly Finale

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ST9TZBb9v8
I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, tears and sweat.

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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 19

Unread postby dohboi » Sun 08 Jul 2018, 13:11:53

The Netherlands contemplates the world’s toughest climate law

A new Dutch proposal would put climate at the center of national politics.


Last week, a coalition of seven Dutch political parties unveiled a climate policy proposal that is breathtaking in its ambition. If it becomes law, it will codify the most stringent targets for greenhouse gas reductions of any country in the world.

There are still several steps between the proposal and passage, including debate in both houses of Parliament, and lawmakers may make changes. But given the broad political support — the parties involved control 113 of 150 seats in Parliament — it is widely expected to pass in something like its current form by late next summer.

It would be the world’s eighth national climate law (after the UK, Mexico, Denmark, Finland, France, Norway, and Sweden), but it boasts a few features that make it particularly notable.

It’s bipartisan! Or rather, heptapartisan.

Here in the US, we’ve grown depressingly accustomed to climate battles breaking down along partisan lines: Democrats push (inadequate) solutions; Republicans deny that the problem exists or that anything needs to be done about it.

In contrast, the Dutch proposal is supported by a coalition of parties ranging from the far left to the center-right, together representing a large majority of seats in the Dutch Parliament. (One notable absence: the right-wing populist party, Party for Freedom, led by notorious Islamophobe Geert Wilders.) The current prime minister, Mark Rutte, leads the center-right People’s Party for Freedom and Democracy (VVD), which is one of the bill’s primary supporters.
...
If passed as proposed, the Dutch law would be the world’s most stringent, putting into statute the following targets:

• 49 percent reduction in greenhouse gases (relative to 1990 levels) by 2030
• 95 percent reduction by 2050
• 100 percent carbon-neutral electricity by 2050 ...


https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environm ... is-targets
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 19

Unread postby dohboi » Sun 08 Jul 2018, 17:13:15

More on the recent study showing that we're in even deeper sh!t than many thought:

Global warming may be twice what climate models predict

https://newsroom.unsw.edu.au/news/scien ... ls-predict

Future global warming may eventually be twice as warm as projected by climate models and sea levels may rise six metres or more even if the world meets the 2°C target, according to an international team of researchers from 17 countries.

The findings published last week in Nature Geoscience are based on observational evidence from three warm periods over the past 3.5 million years when the world was 0.5°C-2°C warmer than the pre-industrial temperatures of the 19th Century.

The research also revealed how large areas of the polar ice caps could collapse and significant changes to ecosystems could see the Sahara Desert become green and the edges of tropical forests turn into fire dominated savanna.

‘Observations of past warming periods suggest that a number of amplifying mechanisms, which are poorly represented in climate models, increase long-term warming beyond climate model projections,’ said lead author, Prof Hubertus Fischer of the University of Bern.

‘This suggests the carbon budget to avoid 2°C of global warming may be far smaller than estimated, leaving very little margin for error to meet the Paris targets…’
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 19

Unread postby dohboi » Mon 09 Jul 2018, 07:18:41

Meanwhile:

"Fearing climate change, experts in San Diego warn U.S. nuclear industry faces collapse"

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/new ... story.html
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 19

Unread postby GHung » Mon 09 Jul 2018, 13:26:57

dohboi wrote:Meanwhile:

"Fearing climate change, experts in San Diego warn U.S. nuclear industry faces collapse"

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/new ... story.html


A society desperate to have its cake, and all that growth monkey stuff. Or maybe they fear not having their personal environmental control systems in 100+ degree heat. And they wouldn't want to admit that they can't have all those giant electronic billboards, miles of ice cream freezers, billions of watts lighting empty parking lots,,, all-the-while fighting climate change. From the article:

“There’s almost nothing that can be done to make nuclear a significant contributor in the next few decades, even if you throw billions of dollars at it,” he said. “The people who promote nuclear power have tunnel vision.”

Dan Jacobson, state director for Environment California, echoed those general concerns.

“Nuclear power in its current form has been an incredibility expensive way to boil water
,” he said. “If you’re really trying to decarbonize our grid, we would rather spend those billions on efficiency, conservation and renewables.


So gridweenies say they need new state-of-the-art reactors?

Southern Co. says Vogtle costs to exceed $25B

The cost of expanding Plant Vogtle has swelled to more than $25 billion and work has slipped further behind schedule in the wake of a key contractor’s bankruptcy, according to estimates disclosed Wednesday by Southern Company.

The new cost estimate is close to double the original projection when state regulators in 2009 approved plans for two new nuclear reactors at the plant near Augusta, and roughly $3 billion higher than the most recent figure.

Construction was originally supposed to be finished by now. But Atlanta-based Southern also said Wednesday the new reactors won’t be finished until March 2023 — two and a half years later than its most recent target of late 2020. ....

https://www.myajc.com/business/southern ... 4RNMB2n0O/
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