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Global Warming / Climate Change is Hoax pt 10

Re: Has Global Warming Peaked?

Unread postby AdamB » Tue 11 Jan 2022, 22:29:48

Doly wrote:
The public should learn that that change starts with THEM, and not with some idiot in the white house.


Been there, done that.

And you know what happened? My own family called me an idiot for not flying. Lots of people to this date treat me like I'm a borderline mental health case.


Sounds unreasonable. Are your lifestyle changes draconian, or your advocacy of better lifestyles in general, or just your discussion of expected consequences with, maybe a doomer slant?

I've observed interesting reactions to doomer perspectives before, and not the silly MadMax, Amero, American draft, peak oil of yore nonsense once common around here, but just practical changes, lifestyle changes, that kind of stuff.
What does a science denier look like?

Armageddon » Thu 09 Feb 2006, 10:47:28
whales are a perfect example as to why evolution is wrong. Nothing can evolve into something that enormous. There is no explanation for it getting that big. end of discussion
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Re: Has Global Warming Peaked?

Unread postby Pops » Wed 12 Jan 2022, 08:29:25

mousepad wrote: I live in a hopelessly blue state hellbent on single handedly safe the planet. And how do they do that?
Not with a GROWING economy.

Where is the political party that actually wants to CONSERVE the planet and to stop growth?

So you rage against the party that actually wants to do something to save the planet as virtue signalers when the alternative is a party that really doesn't believe in GW or even PO all that much and is much more worried about their money and economy. The republican leader said just a few years back that you can't conserve your way out of an energy crisis. The current leader has no conception of conservation of anything but his own ego.

I don't agree with every Democrat idea but in the realm of pUS politics must you take the good with the bad
.
The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not, so well do, for themselves -- in their separate, and individual capacities.
-- Abraham Lincoln, Fragment on Government (July 1, 1854)
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Re: Has Global Warming Peaked?

Unread postby Newfie » Wed 12 Jan 2022, 11:21:32

I see ZERO evidence the Democrats want actually DO anything. They want to stay in power, just like the Republicans.

Philadelphia is “hopelessly blue” city. I was deeply involved with the left wing of that spectrum for a long time. I spent several years and a few thousand dollars trying to influence or even just educate these folks to the basics of climate change. It was a complete failure, there was NO interest beyond mouthing whatever current jargon was.

Today this same group is deep into anything that has to do with minority/women’s rights. They are mouthing all the correct left wing blather non stop. So I go to a dinner party and listen to the chatter, what they are really concerned about. And what do I hear “We should get those guys who ride their bikes on the sidewalk, the blacks and asians!” Hoosha around the table.

Now these are nice people, well educated, who listen to NPR and support the far left agenda. But they are simply reacting to their herd. What drives them are their social survival instincts, to blend in with like minded folks. To repeat the mantras.

There are a few among them who can be touched, moved. Those who can see something of the complexity. Those conversations can happen, but they take a lot of care and the. The folks slip back into the herd once again.

I make more meaningful headway on climate change matters with conservatives. I don’t take CC on headlong but I find common ground in things like plastic pollution and declining water resources. They “get” the idea that we can not build our way out of this mess, that we need to curtail our excesses. And of course they are similar to the lefties, these are careful conversations and they slip right back into the herd, bleating the latest bull.

The point is simply that I see no effective difference between the parties. I do see some faint hope the population will eventually insist upon federal term limits.

Trumps slogan? Make America Great Again
What was Biden’s slogan? Back Back Better

Make America GREAT again, build back better!
Build back back better, make America GREAT again!

What is the effectual difference? Both are throwback reminisces to the policies that got us into our current mess.

Screw the D’s and the R’s. We need something different. We may not get it, but that is on us.
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Re: Has Global Warming Peaked?

Unread postby Pops » Wed 12 Jan 2022, 12:52:18

Yeah, you're right newf, republicans are the real saviors of the planet.

I would sure ignore you if I could.
The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not, so well do, for themselves -- in their separate, and individual capacities.
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Re: Has Global Warming Peaked?

Unread postby Plantagenet » Thu 13 Jan 2022, 13:15:54

Pops wrote:republicans are the real saviors of the planet....


??????

I hate to break it to you, Pops, but the Republicans aren't the saviors of the planet.

And neither are the Ds

The planet is heading inexorably into a furnace of global warming because global CO2 emissions continue to rise rapidly.

Right here in the US we saw dramatic increases in coal use and oil use and CO2 emission increases last year under Biden.

All the talk from Biden and the Ds about stopping global warming is just hypocrisy and "greenwashing".....it isn't happening.

And the Rs don't even bother to talk about it.

2021 was the hottest year ever for ocean temperature.......and next year will be even hotter.

Image
SHEEESH!

and

CHEERS!
250 million thousand people have died of covid---Joe Biden
Never underestimate the ability of Joe Biden to f#@% things up---Barack Obama

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Re: Has Global Warming Peaked?

Unread postby theluckycountry » Thu 13 Jan 2022, 16:17:17

You see, all these comments above just illustrate my point, democrats and republicans blaming the opposition for the problems. Yet take a step back and look at the big picture, and what do you see?

Image

A 70 year chart of coal consumption in the US. An inexorable rise, totally independent of whatever political party was in power. This is the reality and a few campaign promises and a few million dollar projects instigated by congress mean nothing, that is just smoke and mirrors.

Can't you see that? Look, there are two viewpoints, the Corporate profit one, and the save the planet one, and the two political parties have chose to portray a certain image that makes it look like they are aligned with one of these. But the simple truth is, they are both aligned with the corporate viewpoint.

It's as plain as the nose on my face. If there weren't the two parties, with apposing images, then you people might take action to actually rein in the robber barons. But you can't because there is already a major party that pretends to do just that. You are trapped! The only thing you can do now, for the sake of a peaceful life and your own sanity is disconnect from politics altogether and just live your life as though they don't exist. I have been doing that for 35 years, quite happily too I might add.

But you wont! Because you are trapped, trapped by decades of programming that ensures you will go to your graves with claws at each others throats while the likes of Bezos grow richer and richer.

Image
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Re: Has Global Warming Peaked?

Unread postby theluckycountry » Thu 13 Jan 2022, 17:16:45

AdamB wrote:
Plantagenet wrote:It doesn't help that various politicians lie and claim that they are going to fix the climate change problem.


Or that you pretend to care. Don't you have some global jet setting to do?


Or another motorbike to buy! I'm getting another one adam, why not, I have a huge house all to myself and plenty of room in the garage down below. I'm getting one of those big BMW adventure tourer bikes, 1250cc, man do they suck gas but what the hell, Australia doesn't have many consumers like america does so what we do down here is irrelevant as far as the planet is concerned. If I had my time over I'd buy a petrol station, just so I could smell the gasoline all day long :)
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Re: Has Global Warming Peaked?

Unread postby dissident » Thu 13 Jan 2022, 17:32:02

theluckycountry wrote:You see, all these comments above just illustrate my point, democrats and republicans blaming the opposition for the problems. Yet take a step back and look at the big picture, and what do you see?

Image



Substitution of coal power by natural gas power. Cleaner but not zero CO2.
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Re: Has Global Warming Peaked?

Unread postby mousepad » Thu 13 Jan 2022, 17:32:11

I just received an email from senator Mark Kelly (democrat) of Arizona.

In his email he promises a lot, including
Additionally, I’ve continued my work to reduce costs to Arizonans on everything from gas to prescription drugs. Getting prices down is critical to getting our economy back on track.


Reducing cost of gas? Don't the democrats know that reducing cost of something increases consumption? Don't the democrats know that burning gas is bad for the environment? It is almost as if the democrats don't care much about the climate. Of course on the surface the democrats talk the sweet talk of green. But do they also walk the walk?
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Re: Has Global Warming Peaked?

Unread postby jawagord » Thu 13 Jan 2022, 18:03:39

Plantagenet wrote:
Pops wrote:republicans are the real saviors of the planet....


??????

I hate to break it to you, Pops, but the Republicans aren't the saviors of the planet.

And neither are the Ds

The planet is heading inexorably into a furnace of global warming because global CO2 emissions continue to rise rapidly.

Right here in the US we saw dramatic increases in coal use and oil use and CO2 emission increases last year under Biden.

All the talk from Biden and the Ds about stopping global warming is just hypocrisy and "greenwashing".....it isn't happening.

And the Rs don't even bother to talk about it.

2021 was the hottest year ever for ocean temperature.......and next year will be even hotter.

Image
SHEEESH!

and

CHEERS!


Good news Plant, unlike last year, NASA has decided to join NOAA (and other reputable organizations) and proclaim 2021 the 6th hottest year on record, not that records matter! Someone should tell NASA the trajectory is flat or declining. I do agree with the comparison of NASA records to, and I paraphrasing here, a giant rectal thermometer!

NASA and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) released their annual assessment of global temperatures and found that 2021 was the sixth warmest year on record.

NOAA recorded global land and sea surface temperatures that were 0.84 C above the 20th century average, while NASA recorded 0.85 C.

While the ranking isn't the most important gauge of climate change — Vose pointed to others, such as ice-sheet melt, changes in animal behaviour and migration patterns — it's a good indicator of Earth's warming trajectory.

NCEI climatologist Ahira Sanchez-Lugo compared the data to being like a person's annual checkup.

"We're constantly taking Earth's vital signs. And not only do we archive it, but we analyze it to help us understand how healthy the Earth is," she said.

"When you go to your annual health checkup, the doctor is collecting data from you — they weigh you, they take your blood pressure, they take a blood sample. And not only do they archive that information, but the doctor looks at it year-to-year to see if there are any changes and know how healthy you are.


https://www.cbc.ca/news/science/2021-cl ... -1.6313613
Don't deny the peak!
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Re: Has Global Warming Peaked?

Unread postby Plantagenet » Thu 13 Jan 2022, 19:14:19

jawagord wrote:Good news Plant, unlike last year, NASA has decided to join NOAA (and other reputable organizations) and proclaim 2021 the 6th hottest year on record


Yes......and the six hottest years are all during the last six years. There is a certain amount of inter-annual variability, but the overall trend is still clearly towards more and more warming.

This is quite clear in the oceans, where the majority of global warming is occurring. Oceanographers just reported that 2021 was the absolute warmest year on record.

Image
2021 was the warmest year on record in the oceans.....so there is no sign that global warming has peaked in the oceanographic data.

Cheers!
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Re: Has Global Warming Peaked?

Unread postby theluckycountry » Thu 13 Jan 2022, 19:22:28

Plantagenet wrote:Personally I think political leadership is central to stopping global warming.


Personally I think the corona virus is central, they have used it to destroy small business, supply chains, air travel, etc etc. Someone, pops I think, rightly commented that the fuel consumption has gone back up a fair way from the outset of the PANDEMIC!!! But that doesn't mean that is a trend, it's just as likely one step back before two more steps forward. Time will tell of course but the precedent is set, they can destroy oil consumption with the stroke of a health officials pen.

Funny when you think on it hey. Entire city states brought to their knees economically on the say so of a couple of obscure political apparatchiks with medical degrees.

apparatchik: a blindly devoted official, follower, or member of an organization (such as a corporation or political party)
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Re: Has Global Warming Peaked?

Unread postby Plantagenet » Fri 14 Jan 2022, 00:50:26

theluckycountry wrote: Someone, pops I think, rightly commented that the fuel consumption has gone back up a fair way from the outset of the PANDEMIC!!!


Oil consumption went down in 2020 when the economy was put into a lockdown. But fuel consumption mostly recovered in 2021 as the lockdown ended, and looks on trend to reach new record highs in 2022.

Image

theluckycountry wrote: Time will tell of course but the precedent is set, they can destroy oil consumption with the stroke of a health officials pen.


Yup.

And thats why its so obscene that Biden and other officials aren't taking the necessary steps to reduce global fuel consumption as a way to stop global warming. Clearly they can do it.........but even though Biden and other officials claim they care about global warming when you look at their lack of action its clear they aren't willing to take the necessary steps to reduce fossil fuel consumption and greenhouse gas emissions.

Cheers!
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Never underestimate the ability of Joe Biden to f#@% things up---Barack Obama

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Re: Has Global Warming Peaked?

Unread postby Doly » Fri 14 Jan 2022, 14:29:05

Are your lifestyle changes draconian, or your advocacy of better lifestyles in general, or just your discussion of expected consequences with, maybe a doomer slant?


My "draconian" lifestyle consists of not flying, not driving a car (actually, I can't drive), and being vegetarian. Being vegetarian still gets me funny comments on occasion, though it's far more acceptable because plenty of people are vegetarian these days for religious reasons. Not flying is what gets to people the most. What people seem to have real trouble with, is the fact that I'm not posing or signalling belonging to any particular tribe, but just acting in accordance to what I believe is likely to happen in the future.

People are very comfortable with others talking about things like climate change much like they talk about their religion or belonging to their political party: it's all talk. We all know that in actual fact, it's extremely rare to meet the Christian that genuinely believes he or she will go to heaven after they die, because they don't approach dying people with specific messages to give to relatives when they meet them in heaven or any such things, the way you do when a person is travelling to an actual place that exists. And in the same way, it often happens that political activists will happily behave in ways that contradict the supposed beliefs of their political party, because it's all for show. It can really freak people out when somebody really behaves as if certain things are true.

I don't generally go preaching, because if even the supposedly "green" people I know can give plenty of excuses for flying, what's the point in trying to convince anyone else? And I don't go pressuring green people not to fly, I just make a comment when they say they've just flown somewhere along the lines of: "That isn't supposed to be very good for climate change," in a disappointed tone. Which is guaranteed to make them as defensive as you've ever seen them. The problem is, I make them realise I'm more serious about it than they are, and they can't handle it.

As for talking about expected consequences, I've returned for long enough to this forum for you to notice how much I talk about expected consequences, even in a forum about energy issues. If people are not interested in a topic, I'm not going to bother to talk about it. And I don't go for the catastrophic doom, I go for trying to find out what is a realistic worst case scenario. And then I encounter people like you that refuse to accept that even a mildly bad scenario is even possible. Well, if you don't want to hear it, you won't. It isn't necessary to talk about things to survive them. I'll just shut up and adjust my calculations to include some scenarios even more negative than the previous ones.

Actually, maybe that's the problem. Maybe I should have gone on and on and on incessantly to everyone I know, on the grounds that repetition and brainwashing works. Not let other people set the agenda of the conversation, but let them know that I'm far more important than they are, and my opinions are what count, and I pick the subject. Problem is, it's a difficult trick to pull for a foreigner.
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Re: Has Global Warming Peaked?

Unread postby Newfie » Fri 14 Jan 2022, 16:49:24

To me the “calculations” see straight forward.

Today our global foot print is about 1.75 Earths.
This is calculated without regard to the damage we are doing to the eco system, which will degrade Earths ability to support life.
It also does not work include damage to croplands which we are using at 10 to 40 times the renewal rate. In other words for every crop we should leave thr land fallow for 20 to 40 years.

Todays population is about 8 billion.
8 /1.75 is 4.6 billion, to retain current renewable resource usage sith zero degradation.
4.6/10 is 460 million to retain current life style while allowing farmlands to recuperate, this is a BEST CASE scenario.

Thats a 95% reduction in population, ignoring climate change or depleting aquifers.

Not in my lifetime, but sometime.

No matter how you cut it, we are in for a rude awakening.
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Re: Has Global Warming Peaked?

Unread postby Doly » Sat 15 Jan 2022, 17:25:55

I don't agree with every Democrat idea but in the realm of US politics must you take the good with the bad


That sort of thinking is exactly what got the US in the current mess. This candidate is far from good, but it's better than the other one, so please vote. It's a race to the bottom.

Little wonder that there are people questioning even the fundamentals of how the US is run by now. People are just coming to the conclusion that the whole system is rotten.
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Re: Has Global Warming Peaked?

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Sat 15 Jan 2022, 18:52:59

First off what good is mixed in with this bad?
I see the left media now focusing on January sixth as a horror that has us on the edge of a cliff that will "Destroy Democracy".
They are doing this not because it is anywhere near true but because the Biden administration is failing miserably on all fronts and they wish to distract us from the reality of it.
I see a poll that has Biden's approval rating at 33 percent and I wonder if 33% of Americans are that nearsighted or stupid.
Note that I never voted for Trump or would, but Biden/Harris has not been an improvement.
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Re: Has Global Warming Peaked?

Unread postby AdamB » Sat 15 Jan 2022, 22:39:38

Newfie wrote:Now these are nice people, well educated, who listen to NPR and support the far left agenda. But they are simply reacting to their herd. What drives them are their social survival instincts, to blend in with like minded folks. To repeat the mantras.

There are a few among them who can be touched, moved. Those who can see something of the complexity. Those conversations can happen, but they take a lot of care and the. The folks slip back into the herd once again.


BOY did you just describe peak oilers of yore as well. Nice people, educated in what they thouoght they needed to know, which was anyone that supported their belief. And reacting to the herd across the board otherwise. in 15 years they HAVE changed a little though, so maybe there is hope with the Democans and Republicrats as well?
What does a science denier look like?

Armageddon » Thu 09 Feb 2006, 10:47:28
whales are a perfect example as to why evolution is wrong. Nothing can evolve into something that enormous. There is no explanation for it getting that big. end of discussion
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Re: Has Global Warming Peaked?

Unread postby AdamB » Sat 15 Jan 2022, 22:48:03

Plantagenet wrote:The planet is heading inexorably into a furnace of global warming because global CO2 emissions continue to rise rapidly.
CHEERS!


And you keep up the good work contributing to it while pretending to care Plant!!

What's up for your globe trotting next, some baby seal bashing with diesel powered machinery (sans exhaust and catalytic converters of course), maybe running the harpoon on one of those Japanese whaling research vessels? Now THAT would be a real feather in your "how many ways can I get mine before the permafrost under my cabin melts" exercise!
What does a science denier look like?

Armageddon » Thu 09 Feb 2006, 10:47:28
whales are a perfect example as to why evolution is wrong. Nothing can evolve into something that enormous. There is no explanation for it getting that big. end of discussion
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Re: Has Global Warming Peaked?

Unread postby AdamB » Sat 15 Jan 2022, 22:53:34

theluckycountry wrote:

Image

A 70 year chart of coal consumption in the US. An inexorable rise, totally independent of whatever political party was in power. This is the reality and a few campaign promises and a few million dollar projects instigated by congress mean nothing, that is just smoke and mirrors.


Umm....you did notice that the US has been trending DOWN in coal consumption (peak demand anyone?) for like....more than a decade now right, right? So no, no INEXORABLE rise....just the usual...a rise....and then a fall. As happens with all non-renewable mineral extraction. Duh. They don't teach Aussies logic and words and stuff?

Economics made it happen, just as it can make other things happen (good and bad) and rich Australians can continue to burn oil to do nothing more important than run around on high powered toys. Can you imagine that? 6 peak oils this century, and silly doomers hiding in the country can still zoom around the paved roads that those 6 peak oils coulldn't kill either?
What does a science denier look like?

Armageddon » Thu 09 Feb 2006, 10:47:28
whales are a perfect example as to why evolution is wrong. Nothing can evolve into something that enormous. There is no explanation for it getting that big. end of discussion
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