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ExxonMobil hit with climate change investigation in New York

ExxonMobil hit with climate change investigation in New York

Unread postby GHung » Thu 05 Nov 2015, 18:29:20

http://money.cnn.com/2015/11/05/news/ex ... -stack-dom

ExxonMobil is under investigation by the New York Attorney General for withholding information from both its shareholders and the public about the risks of climate change.

In a statement on Thursday, ExxonMobil confirmed that it has received a subpoena requesting documents and information pertaining to climate change.

In the statement, ExxonMobil (XOM) "unequivocally" rejected any accusations that it had hidden climate change research.

"ExxonMobil has included information about the business risk of climate change for many years in our 10-K, Corporate Citizenship Report and in other reports to shareholders," the statement said.

The oil and gas corporation, which recently posted poor earnings, said it has a "nearly 40-year history of climate research." ExxonMobil said the research was gathered through a collaboration with the U.S. Department of Energy, the UN Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change and academics.
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Re: ExxonMobil hit with climate change investigation in New

Unread postby dohboi » Thu 05 Nov 2015, 19:38:11

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/04/busin ... .html?_r=0

Gore Calls for Exxon Mobil Inquiry on Climate Change
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Re: ExxonMobil hit with climate change investigation in New

Unread postby Plantagenet » Thu 05 Nov 2015, 21:10:16

GHung wrote:
ExxonMobil is under investigation by the New York Attorney General for withholding information from both its shareholders and the public about the risks of climate change.


Does EXXON Have some information that isn't publicly available?

What is the secret info that EXXON has? :?:
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Re: ExxonMobil hit with climate change investigation in New

Unread postby GHung » Thu 05 Nov 2015, 23:27:35

It's more that Exxon allegedly wasn't forthcoming with their shareholders; at least that's the buzz. Seems some folks think investors have a right to be informed about the consequences of using the products they sell; disclosure and all that. Not sure how many were complaining, if any.
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Re: ExxonMobil hit with climate change investigation in New

Unread postby onlooker » Fri 06 Nov 2015, 00:41:16

I think this investigation if nothing else sends the message that as a nation we will not tolerate anymore denialist jibberish on the firm and pretty much undisputed truth that climate is changing and humanity is too blame
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Re: ExxonMobil hit with climate change investigation in New

Unread postby Cog » Fri 06 Nov 2015, 00:49:09

The message it sends to me is that New York is the liberal cesspool it always has been. Bans on guns, bans on soft drinks and now the latest liberal mantra of hammering on companies providing a legal product to consumers. No surprise.

Do you really think that the New York's AG cares about Exxon's shareholders? :lol:
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Re: ExxonMobil hit with climate change investigation in New

Unread postby onlooker » Fri 06 Nov 2015, 07:11:18

Yes Cog, I am happy to live in this so called cesspool you dub New York. Yes we do like to ban things that harm humans. Someday, given the track we are on humans if their are any still remaining will look back and say what a cesspool of humanity lived in those times, no wonder they were responsible for the conditions we now confront. The message this sends me is that a small weak ray of light still shines amid the growing darkness. I expect growing vindictiveness in the coming years as consequences set in and all realize who is most responsible. The ignorant consumers are responsible for their ignorance but the elites and their institutions are responsible for lying enabling this ignorance. So who is most responsible and despicable in their behavior?
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Re: ExxonMobil hit with climate change investigation in New

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Fri 06 Nov 2015, 09:15:05

At a meeting in Exxon Corporation's headquarters, a senior company scientist named James F. Black addressed an audience of powerful oilmen. Speaking without a text as he flipped through detailed slides, Black delivered a sobering message: carbon dioxide from the world's use of fossil fuels would warm the planet and could eventually endanger humanity.

“In the first place, there is general scientific agreement that the most likely manner in which mankind is influencing the global climate is through carbon dioxide release from the burning of fossil fuels,” Black told Exxon's Management Committee, according to a written version he recorded later.

It was July 1977 when Exxon's leaders received this blunt assessment, well before most of the world had heard of the looming climate crisis.

A year later, Black, a top technical expert in Exxon's Research & Engineering division, took an updated version of his presentation to a broader audience. He warned Exxon scientists and managers that independent researchers estimated a doubling of the carbon dioxide (CO2) concentration in the atmosphere would increase average global temperatures by 2 to 3 degrees Celsius (4 to 5 degrees Fahrenheit), and as much as 10 degrees Celsius (18 degrees Fahrenheit) at the poles. Rainfall might get heavier in some regions, and other places might turn to desert.

“Some countries would benefit but others would have their agricultural output reduced or destroyed,” Black said, in the written summary of his 1978 talk.

So they knew. Yet:

Then, toward the end of the 1980s, Exxon curtailed its carbon dioxide research. In the decades that followed, Exxon worked instead at the forefront of climate denial. It put its muscle behind efforts to manufacture doubt about the reality of global warming its own scientists had once confirmed. It lobbied to block federal and international action to control greenhouse gas emissions. It helped to erect a vast edifice of misinformation that stands to this day.

link


The Oil Industry, and Exxon in particular, is guilty of engaging in an enterprise they knew would lead to loss of property and life, and endanger the habitability of parts or the whole of the planet due to dangerous climate change.

The Oil industry is guilty of engaging in a decades-long conspiracy to purposely and fraudulently mislead the public about the dangers of greenhouse gasses released by the burning of fossil fuels, that could lead to dangerous climate change.

They also engaged in a conspiracy to launch a public relations campaign to counteract the growing body of scientific evidence showing greenhouse gasses were hazardous and could lead to dangerous climate change, while at the same time the Defendants' own internal scientific research confirmed the findings that the burning of fossil fuels could have adverse effects to global temperature, rainfall patterns and global crop yields. The object of this campaign was to continue in their enterprise and profits, and to avoid adverse liability judgments, federal laws restricting their enterprise and adverse publicity.

Thus, the RICO Act applies.

Any enterprise engaged in, that would knowingly endanger the public and lead to loss of property and life is a criminal enterprise.

Conspiracy to hide this fact is a criminal act.

Conspiracy to mislead and/or deceive for the purpose of profit or to avoid liability is a criminal act.

Conspiracy to influence Federal regulation of such activity is a criminal act.

Conspiracy to mislead shareholders with regards to potential liability is a criminal act.

They also misled shareholders with regards to their ability to monetize their known reserves, knowing they would eventually be stopped. Shareholders stand to lose billions. I'm sure they care.
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Re: ExxonMobil hit with climate change investigation in New

Unread postby Sixstrings » Fri 06 Nov 2015, 10:06:11

It's the "toughest climate crackdown yet:"

Exxon Probed by New York in Toughest U.S. Climate Crackdown Yet

The investigation is seeking information on whether the world’s biggest oil explorer lied to investors and the public for almost 40 years about the impact of climate change on profits, the person said. As a manufacturer of 10 million gallons of gasoline and other fuels every hour of every day, Exxon is one of the world’s largest sources of carbon-heavy energy. Environmental activists cheered New York’s action, calling for more agencies to join the probe.

Schneiderman “is leading the charge to further expose the hypocrisy of fossil fuel companies like Exxon Mobil and hold them accountable for denying climate change to the public and blocking necessary action for decades,” Greenpeace spokesman Rodrigo Estrada said
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/07/science/more-oil-companies-could-join-exxon-mobil-as-focus-of-climate-investigations.html?_r=0


Yep, the Inquisition mob is out there, the witchhunt has begun -- to hold to ACCOUNT those who DENY the Word of God -- *cough ahem* sorry I mean, CLIMATE CHANGE.

The tribunals will be set. Neighbor will testify against neighbor, brother against brother, WHO among YOU *denied* the good book and the word of the Lord almighty -- ahem sorry again, I mean climate change!

It won't matter if you got convinced of CC in recent years and are a recent convert to the Faith -- that's not good enough for them they still want to punish the converts for back before they converted; the Grand Inquisitors will have trials and tribunals and probes and dig back, 30 years and 40 years to find anyone who even USED to be a Denier -- to root out any trace of anti-climate change heresy.

Look folks -- Ben Carson is an idiot for denying basic science.

But these far left are just as crazy too except it's Mother Earth religion instead of 7th day adventism but make no mistake these far left are Al Gore book-thumping fundamentalists on a righteous mission and setting up inquisitions -- and this is an entirely IDEOLOGICAL inquisition that has no connection with law nor logic, whatsoever.

Look at this NYT article, it says prosecutors could wind up prosecuting Republican groups and think tanks, like ALEC and the Global Climate Coalition.

Companies are gong to get the book thrown at them, for GIVING money to Republican groups.

And the Republican groups are gonna get prosecuted too. Read that article, that's what it said, and if you read my posts on this Exxon thing then you know I warned from the very start -- and I knew -- that at root this was a "prosecute Republican groups" thing, essentially.

And by the way, it's kind of like how the IRS was going after tea party groups right?

More Oil Companies Could Join Exxon Mobil as Focus of Climate Investigations

“Exxon Mobil is not alone,” said Stephen Zamora, a professor at the University of Houston Law Center. “This is not likely to be an isolated matter.”

Energy experts said prosecutors may decide to investigate companies that chose to fund or join organizations that questioned climate science or policies designed to address the problem, such as the Global Climate Coalition and the American Legislative Exchange Council, to see if discrepancies exist between the companies’ public and private statements.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/07/science/more-oil-companies-could-join-exxon-mobil-as-focus-of-climate-investigations.html?_r=0


I'm not a big fan of these Republican groups but looks folks, right is right and wrong is wrong and you can't go after Republicans like it's a witchhunt just because Democrats have majority.

(I don't like that group ALEC at all, it's really tempting to just be on the bandwagon and say "yeah, PROSECUTE those horrible Republican think tanks, yeah man! And that society is better off, without them. But look folks there's a freedom of speech principle here, and a principle about political prosecution.)
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Re: ExxonMobil hit with climate change investigation in New

Unread postby onlooker » Fri 06 Nov 2015, 10:17:47

Six, your talking alot of hogwash here. First of all it is not a partisan thing, it is something that is and will affect adversely (starvation) all human beings regardless of party, sex, race, religion etc. Second, it is not an ideological inquisition witch hunt. For God's sake man this is precisely about SCIENCE. At this late stage for you and anyone to bring up partisan-ideological stances is plain ignorant/deceitful. Climate change is here and it is going to get worse. For once, can all this division between humans cease and at least if their is a chance to avert the worse, lets all do it. Your comments Six are NOT helpful to accomplish this.
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Re: ExxonMobil hit with climate change investigation in New

Unread postby dohboi » Fri 06 Nov 2015, 10:23:29

It's so sweat to see the mighty 6S running to the aid of poor little put-upon Exxon (wealthiest corporation since money was invented)! :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: ExxonMobil hit with climate change investigation in New

Unread postby GHung » Fri 06 Nov 2015, 10:26:13

Six said; And the Republican groups are gonna get prosecuted too.

Yeah, Six, I would love to see James Inhofe in a big bird cage, wearing a dunce cap, hung up in the corner of Congress sucking his thumb, drooling and blabbering.

When you're guilty of decades of extreme denial and abuses, this is generally what you get; heads get cut off.
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Re: ExxonMobil hit with climate change investigation in New

Unread postby Sixstrings » Fri 06 Nov 2015, 10:31:12

onlooker wrote:Six, your talking alot of hogwash here. First of all it is not a partisan thing,


How can you say it's not political when this thing has jumped so fast from just "big tobacco" to now some talk about prosecuting Republican think tanks. That's what the NYT article says:

"Energy experts said prosecutors may decide to investigate companies that chose to fund or join organizations that questioned climate science or policies designed to address the problem, such as the Global Climate Coalition and the American Legislative Exchange Council."


ALEC is a major bigtime Republican group, how is this not political if they want to prosecute ALEC? And then who is next? How far will the probes and inquisitors go?

it is something that is and will affect adversely (starvation) all human beings regardless of party, sex, race, religion etc. Second, it is not an ideological inquisition witch hunt. For God's sake man this is precisely about SCIENCE.


No onlooker, it's about POLICY. SCIENCE just IS. POLICY is what you do about things.

It's not right to prosecute groups that are against your group's policy ideas. Nor to prosecute Exxon -- from 40 years ago -- because you think Exxon made it difficult to enact your policy ideas.

That's not against the law.

ALEC isn't against the law, just because they have Republican ideas.

I don't like ALEC and some of these Republican political groups either, that are all pro industry and thick in with Republicans, but the way to go about that isn't by prosecuting them.
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Re: ExxonMobil hit with climate change investigation in New

Unread postby Sixstrings » Fri 06 Nov 2015, 10:47:45

dohboi wrote:It's so sweat to see the mighty 6S running to the aid of poor little put-upon Exxon (wealthiest corporation since money was invented)! :lol: :lol: :lol:


But here's my problem dohboi, the fact is that we have free speech and the 1st amendment in the US and not even Russia Today and China Radio are illegal, if Americans want to fund those.

But read this:

"Energy experts said prosecutors may decide to investigate companies that chose to fund or join organizations that questioned climate science or policies designed to address the problem, such as the Global Climate Coalition and the American Legislative Exchange Council."


They're acting like its AGAINST THE LAW TO GIVE MONEY OR OTHERWISE "SUPPORT" REPUBLICAN GROUPS.

There's no law against that, I'm sorry.

The thing is just so NUTS.

They may as well bring a RICO criminal conspiracy case against the Republican National Committee, except for the minor detail that having climate change policy doubts and questions IS NOT AGAINST THE LAW.

There IS NO LAW against denying or having doubts or questions about climate change science.

There's no law against Ben Carson thinking Joseph in the Bible built the pyramids to store grain, either. Society can call him out and have a laugh about it and have a free speech debate -- but NOT prosecute him or those that "choose to support him."
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Re: ExxonMobil hit with climate change investigation in New

Unread postby Subjectivist » Fri 06 Nov 2015, 10:48:59

The corporation known as Exxon-Mobile is big in America, but compared to Saudi Aramaco or almost every national oil company it's not that significant. If you want to sue an oil organization for global warming you need to go after OPEC and Gazprom and so on that control many times the oil flow that Exxon sells.
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Re: ExxonMobil hit with climate change investigation in New

Unread postby dohboi » Fri 06 Nov 2015, 10:54:45

Yeah, free speech.

But it's still illegal to yell "FIRE" in a crowded theater if there is not fire.

Language that misleads in such a way as to cause massive harm, in all sorts of circumstances, is not only deeply immoral, but also in many cases illegal.

The speech that you should be using your enormous super powers to protect is that if climate scientists who are regularly threatened with death and threat to family just for doing their science.

I personally think 'gag orders' and contracts that limit speech should generally be illegal.
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Re: ExxonMobil hit with climate change investigation in New

Unread postby GHung » Fri 06 Nov 2015, 10:56:00

Six said; "If you do this to Republicans today, they could prosecute your groups tomorrow..."

Nonsense. Examples are made all the time, which generally means going after the biggest and worst offenders. That's how political policy changes are validated. Prosecute a couple of banks or fund managers, then implement policy changes. That didn't mean Fast Billy's Quick Mortgage down on Main Street got prosecuted for passing on awful sub-prime loans. The vast majority of those who helped rescind Glass-Stegall, or took advantage of the opportunities that came available, weren't prosecuted, and most of those involved in producing and selling tobacco products weren't hauled in front of congressional committees. Do you know any individual tobacco farmers who went to court for growing tobacco or voicing support for big tobacco? Many got subsidies to grow something else; still are.

Indeed, Glass-Stegall is still history, and people can still use tobacco products, the same way that we'll still be using fossil fuels. At some point, considering the level of bought-and-paid-for denial, someone had to put a big foot in the climate change door. Whether or not Exxon considered that they were setting themselves up for this sort of thing doesn't matter. They did, and will have to explain themselves.
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Re: ExxonMobil hit with climate change investigation in New

Unread postby Sixstrings » Fri 06 Nov 2015, 11:02:53

dohboi wrote:It's so sweat to see the mighty 6S running to the aid of poor little put-upon Exxon (wealthiest corporation since money was invented)! :lol: :lol: :lol:


And by the way, the rest of the oil industry -- other than exxon -- have all been posting major losses like a billion to five billion dollars. Chevron, Shell, all of them. Due to the crash in oil prices and then they had to cancel canadian tar sands projects and that cost a lot of money.

And the industry in the Dakotas is hurting, too. Profits are all way down, into losses.

Now you all want to prosecute them for "climate change denial" and for "supporting or joining political organizations?" (as if that were even illegal to start with)

Having said all the above -- yeah, it is ironic, I'm defending poor bullied Exxon and ALEC of all things. :lol:

But I'll tell ya something dohboi, I would hope the relevant judges would think as I do. And are fair about things, use law and logic and principle. Exxon and Horrible Republican Groups prosecuted today, could mean LEFT WING groups and companies that "support" them, could be prosecuted by Republicans in the future.

This is why we have laws and judges and rule of law, otherwise it's just political prosecutions and one group having inquisitions on another group.

Hopefully the whole thing works out for the best -- that this New York Attorney general nonsense never even makes it to a court of law and if it does, it gets thrown out by a logical objective judge. But then, after so much harassment, the oil companies won't ever fund climate denial groups either. So that would work out, a little bullying from the left but just so it doesn't go too far into a travesty of law and justice.

I don't like ALEC but come on folks, how can you prosecute Republicans for being pro industry? That's an oxymoron, they're the pro industry party, it's just "what they do." And the reverse could be true one day, Republicans could prosecute leftist groups just because they are leftist -- even though being leftists is just "what they do" and shouldn't be illegal. We're supposed to have free speech and free assembly, that's in the Constitution.

This climate change prosecution thing, it's like McCarthy and the communism probes.

"Are you, or have you ever been, a climate science doubter or climate change policy opponent?

Have you ever given money or supported groups connected to the Republican Party and connected to Climate Change Denial? And don't claim that's legal, this Inquisition of Grand Inquisitors doesn't care about the law, answer the question, are you or have you ever been a Denier?

Have you sir, ever had questions about the entirety of climate science and solar cycles? If you have, then this is heresy against the Faith, to question the Good Book and the prophet Al Gore."

P.S. As I have posted many, MANY times, Republicans do need to change gears and just get a Republican message on climate change and support green energy and figure out a capitalist pro industry take on it rather than leftist carbon taxes and banker cap and trade.

BUT -- the left just can't go too far into what's essentially prosecuting Republicans, to FORCE them to change, that really is like McCarthyism where there's an inquisition and honestly it flies in the face of free speech and free assembly and is trying to prosecute people just for views when that's not even illegal to start with, that's all I'm sayin' here.
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Re: ExxonMobil hit with climate change investigation in New

Unread postby GHung » Fri 06 Nov 2015, 11:06:15

Subjectivist said; "If you want to sue an oil organization for global warming you need to go after OPEC and Gazprom and so on that control many times the oil flow that Exxon sells."

Legally, this isn't about suing an oil organization for global warming. It's about knowingly misleading shareholders and the public about the negative consequences of using the products you produce. Not sure if you guys are too dumb to know the difference, or if you are being intentionally misleading, just as Exxon allegedly was.
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Re: ExxonMobil hit with climate change investigation in New

Unread postby GHung » Fri 06 Nov 2015, 11:13:52

Six said; "This climate change prosecution thing, it's like McCarthy and the communism probes."

No it's not, no matter how many times you repeat it. Being a communist is entirely legal. Misleading shareholders and customers about your products and possible liabilities isn't. You can assign all sorts of ulterior motives to this, and some may be valid, but the courts generally don't care. Exxon could well prevail in this, but it'll be well established at that point just how much bullshit they were feeding the public.
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