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ExxonMobil hit with climate change investigation in New York

Re: ExxonMobil hit with climate change investigation in New

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Sat 02 Jan 2016, 05:27:00

For the umpteenth time, I will point out that "Big Oil" (a term just as meaningless as "assault weapon") is not responsible for CC. Anyways they are no more responsible than any other manufacturer, they bear the responsibility for the fuel burned to pump, refine, and transport their products.

The people responsible for CC chose to spend money for a fuel-burning automobile, and then chose to fill it with fuel, and then chose to drive it around. In other words, all of you reading this who fit that description bear partial responsibility for CC, shared with all the other consumers. Just as the users of the electrical grid mostly consume the 78% of grid power (national average) generated by burning FF's, and bear the responsibility for the carbon emitted by power plants and any possible CC effects.

The consumers of FF power bear all of the responsibility. To believe otherwise is akin to believing that farmers cause obesity or Eberhard Faber causes misspelled words (they make the classic yellow wooden pencils).

Any of you who have shaded the truth on an insurance form in hopes of a cheaper rate have committed the same fraud that ExxonMobil might be prosecuted for.

For <insert favorite deity name here>'s sake, consumers bear the responsibility for CC resulting from the FF's they consume for transport and grid power. Damn near everyone here has made a choice to own a FF vehicle rather than a BEV, and to connect to the grid rather than own a solar roof and batteries.

YOU are the problem, all of the problem.
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Re: ExxonMobil hit with climate change investigation in New

Unread postby onlooker » Sat 02 Jan 2016, 06:41:59

The consumers of FF power bear all of the responsibility. To believe otherwise is akin to believing that farmers cause obesity or Eberhard Faber causes misspelled words (they make the classic yellow wooden pencils).

As many times as you might say Kaiser does not make it a true statement. True is what Rock says that consumers are the biggest emitters. But these two statements are not the same.
Responsibility is what we (society) entrust our government and corporations with. A verdict was reached in which a jury thought the same way and awarded much money to victims of cigarette companies for their false and misleading product pitches and advertisements. We the people do not make the laws or formulate the business plans of companies. This is what government and corporations do in their roles in society. We entrust them to do so in a responsible way. To do so in a way that is for our benefit not for our harm. Instead, they deceive us and withhold information by which we all together may have decided to alter the path civilization was taking. You cannot absolve governments and corporations of their complicity in continuing BAU. It is like absolving the drug dealer because oh well the addict used the drugs it is his/her fault. This analogy is apt because first of all society and it's people have few other viable options that to plug into this oil matrix just to live and have the necessities of life. Also, some people decry that humans are ignorant and greedy that may be but to me it is worse to be a liar particularly with a practice which can affect all of humanity for the foreseeable future. So call the common man a hypocrite, greedy and ignorant because that is what you are saying when you blame us. I do not deny some of that. But in terms of responsibility understand that without the information available and without access to the levers of power how the heck were people going to have an awakening to change radically their behavior?
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Re: ExxonMobil hit with climate change investigation in New

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Sat 02 Jan 2016, 06:53:25

Denial, it's not just a river in Africa. Blame, the auto- response of guilty children. Onlooker, we elect whichever bunch of clowns promise to leave the most money in our pockets. For most people, that is calculated on a paycheck to paycheck basis & $5 makes a difference. We don't get to vote for 50 year plans, 500 year plans, nobody puts them up with any seriousness.

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Re: ExxonMobil hit with climate change investigation in New

Unread postby onlooker » Sat 02 Jan 2016, 07:12:22

Yes Sea, we are ignorant, greedy and hypocritical. I am hypocritical as I have not moved to some poor country to live an ascetic life. Okay. But we are correct to have contempt for as you call them the "clowns". I applaud KJ for not letting anyone have a free pass. However, we should not lose sight of how rigged the game has been. Elect hardly. We have like some restaurant a specific menu to choose from nothing else. The nexus of Corporate and Government rule has make this country and in fact the planet a true Plutocracy- The rule of money. It is unfortunate because we all became mesmerized by the material world to some degree. Everyone lost sight of Earth which makes everything possible.
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Re: ExxonMobil hit with climate change investigation in New

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Sat 02 Jan 2016, 07:22:58

Congratulations on stepping back from the primary matrix, welcome to the deep, dark world of the sub- matrix. Your authority in the primary matrix was zilch, still pretty much is. In the sub matrix yours is the only authority. Nothing has changed, but for you everything has.
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Re: ExxonMobil hit with climate change investigation in New

Unread postby onlooker » Thu 14 Jul 2016, 14:45:54

It seems Congress specifically the GOP want to turn the tables on the investigators of Exxon and investigate them. So they are taking the side of Exxon over the people. Interesting.
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Re: ExxonMobil hit with climate change investigation in New

Unread postby GHung » Fri 15 Jul 2016, 12:02:30

GOP Congressman Subpoenas Those Investigating Big Oil’s Climate Cover-Up

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/lam ... 08d3329690

In his latest showing of support for Big Oil, a House Republican has subpoenaed state attorneys general and environmental groups that are investigating whether companies like Exxon Mobil committed fraud by covering up the risks of climate change.

Rep. Lamar Smith (R-Texas) said during a press conference Wednesday that the subpoenas are necessary to “protect the American people from further infringement of their free speech rights.”

Smith, who chairs the House Committee on Science, Space, and Technology, has a long history of denying climate change and going after those who accept the scientific consensus.

The investigations led by the attorneys general of New York and Massachusetts, Smith said, “amount to a form of extortion,” “threaten legitimate scientific debate about climate change” and are a “blatant effort to silence free speech.”


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Re: ExxonMobil hit with climate change investigation by SEC

Unread postby vox_mundi » Wed 21 Sep 2016, 11:29:47

SEC probes Exxon's climate, reserves accounting: report

Not all giants are slain by sword. A mirror petrified Medusa. Tax evasion (and a case of syphilis) brought down Al Capone. And [b]if oil monolith ExxonMobil’s stock price ever takes a major plummet, it will probably come from failing to tell its investors how climate change would wreck its business model.

On September 20, the Wall Street Journal broke news that the US Securities and Exchange Commission—the highest federal financial regulator—is formally investigating Exxon’s accounting. The company stands accused of ignoring and possibly even lying about how market fluctuations affect its profits. Some, but not all, of those fluctuations come from government regulations targeting climate change. Environmental law wonks are watching that last bit closely, because the company stands accused of knowingly pushing an anti-climate agenda. If the SEC gets the goods on Exxon, it could drop some serious sanctions on the company, and that could affect the way publicly-traded companies account for the costs of climate change.

Those costs have led governments to react with emissions regulations. Regulations basically put a price on emitting carbon, making it more expensive to burn fossil fuels. “The question to ask is, in a world where climate change is leading regulations, what happens to the estimated worth of a company,” says Bevis Longstreth, a former SEC commissioner. This is especially important for companies who rely on public investors.

Since at least the late 1980s, Exxon has sold its stock based on two claims: 1) Climate change is not real; and, 2) Even if it were, governments would balk at the huge costs associated with transitioning to clean energy economies. But in 2015, Inside Climate News reported that Exxon didn’t actually believe that first claim. That investigation showed how the company’s own research established the links between greenhouse gas emissions and climate change back in the 1970s.

Then, beginning in the late 1980s, Exxon actively worked against domestic and international efforts to introduce climate change-fighting regulations. By extension, it was—allegedly—misleading its own investors about how climate change would affect their returns.

“If you’re spending 80 or so dollars per barrel to explore for new oil, and the market is only paying 40 dollars per barrel, then your stock price is overvalued,” says Longstreth. Especially if the oil price is not expected to recover—which is a reasonable assumption, given that last year 185 countries agreed to emit net zero carbon emissions by 2050. “If the world’s economy is weaned off oil by 2050, what happens to all the money you are now spending on finding more oil?” says Longstreth.

The mere fact that the normally pussyfooted SEC is doing a formal investigation is big news. “They wouldn’t launch a formal investigation without probable cause that these rules had been violated, and if Exxon violated them the SEC has no option but to bring the culprit to book,” says Longstreth, who as a former commissioner was in charge of green-lighting such investigations. In the most extreme circumstance, Longstreth says the SEC could make Exxon liable for paying out damages to anyone who overbought, or undersold, stock during whatever time frame the SEC deems the company culpable.

“But the fact that the SEC is raising the carbon cost question is deeply significant,” says Longstreth. Other companies could be driven to release more accurate accounts of how climate change affects their business, and that cost would become transparent in their stock prices. And that’s how you slay a giant.


Wall Streets Response ...

Here's Why You Should Sell Exxon on Strength

Image

The downside momentum now in place has inflicted major damage to the stock. In the near term, more downside is likely on the way.

Image
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Re: ExxonMobil hit with climate change investigation in New

Unread postby C8 » Wed 21 Sep 2016, 11:42:23

This means climate change alarmists may also be liable for making claims they know aren't true- possibly for the financial benefit of renewable energy companies (per subsidies)

Also those spreading misinformation about the dangers of nuclear power can also be sued- these are many of the same global warming alarmists

If these cases win then free speech is dead- and the totalitarian govt. that takes over will have little interest in global warming.
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Re: ExxonMobil hit with climate change investigation in New

Unread postby vox_mundi » Wed 21 Sep 2016, 12:00:20

C8 wrote:This means climate change alarmists denialists and lackeys may also be liable for making claims they know aren't true- possibly for the financial benefit of renewable fossil fuel energy companies (per subsidies)

Also those spreading misinformation about the dangers safety of nuclear power can also be sued- these are many of the same global warming alarmists denialists and lackeys

If these cases win then free speech is dead alive - and the totalitarian responsible govt. that takes over will have little an interest in solving global warming.


Fixed that for you :razz:
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Re: ExxonMobil hit with climate change investigation in New

Unread postby dohboi » Thu 22 Sep 2016, 09:38:21

+1
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Re: ExxonMobil hit with climate change investigation in New

Unread postby kiwichick » Thu 22 Sep 2016, 17:29:05

+2......thanks vox
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Re: ExxonMobil hit with climate change investigation in New

Unread postby onlooker » Thu 22 Sep 2016, 18:57:28

I guess Vox, where all trying for they're to be a little justice to atone for what collectively we have done and are still doing to Earth. Yes all are to some degree guilty but some more like first world consumers and especially lying deceiving corporations like Exxon. All now a moot point but a little soul searching and ping of conscious never hurt anyone. :lol:
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Re: ExxonMobil hit with climate change investigation in New

Unread postby vox_mundi » Thu 29 Sep 2016, 17:01:14

Lawsuit: ExxonMobil polluted river, ignored climate change

ExxonMobil has polluted the Mystic River while failing to plan for the potentially severe impacts of climate change at its Boston-area fuel storage terminal, according to a lawsuit filed Thursday by an environmental advocacy group.

Boston-based CLF alleged the company had ignored an "imminent" threat posed by rising sea levels. A storm surge from even a modest hurricane or other significant storm could leave much of the Everett, Massachusetts, facility underwater and result in more devastating pollution to the Mystic River and a smaller tributary, the lawsuit said.

CLF offered flood maps drawn by the Federal Emergency Management Agency to support its warning.

"ExxonMobil is aware of these risks, yet has failed to design and implement protective measures to fortify the Everett Terminal as required under federal law," the suit stated.

"For more than three decades, ExxonMobil has devoted its resources to deceiving the public about climate science while using its knowledge about climate change to advance its business operations," said CLF president Bradley Campbell, in a statement announcing the suit.
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Re: ExxonMobil hit with climate change investigation in New

Unread postby dohboi » Thu 27 Oct 2016, 17:09:20

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/ene ... _alert-hse

Loss to Exxon--Court Demands Documents about when they knew about GW
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Re: ExxonMobil hit with climate change investigation in New

Unread postby Plantagenet » Thu 27 Oct 2016, 17:24:00

dohboi wrote:https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2016/10/26/in-a-loss-for-exxonmobil-ny-supreme-court-orders-oil-giant-to-produce-climate-documents/?utm_term=.b2375781b707&wpisrc=al_alert-hse

Loss to Exxon--Court Demands Documents about when they knew about GW


A very interesting case. The NY AG is accusing Exxon of fraud for concealing that climate change is real while continuing to sell oil and gas.

This is analogous, in some sense, to the tobacco companies concealing that cigarettes cause cancer while continuing to sell cigarettes.

In the cigarette case the states were able to extract large financial settlements from the tobacco companies and all cigarettes sold today must carry a warning label. Oh, and tobacco advertising was banned.

Presumably if the New York State AG wins the Oil companies will have to pay lots of money to the states, and put a warning label on all their gas pumps and there would be no more adds for gasoline.

While this might make liberals feel good, in fact this kind of thing would do nothing to reduce CO2 emissions and global warming.

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Re: ExxonMobil hit with climate change investigation in New

Unread postby dohboi » Thu 27 Oct 2016, 22:31:47

Plant, the name of the game is delegitimize. Each individual step toward delegitmization seems inconsequenctial. But the combined force can lead to sudden, dramatic change.
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Re: ExxonMobil hit with climate change investigation in New

Unread postby onlooker » Fri 28 Oct 2016, 02:12:37

dohboi wrote:Plant, the name of the game is delegitimize. Each individual step toward delegitmization seems inconsequenctial. But the combined force can lead to sudden, dramatic change.

D, I think we all can agree that we have not the time for incremental
change. The abrupt massive sudden change somehow needs to happen NOW. Some already here think its too late. I do not see de-legitimization being the trigger for said change. Rather perhaps some truly catastrophic natural with large numbers of casualties. Perhaps
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Re: ExxonMobil hit with climate change investigation in New

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Fri 28 Oct 2016, 08:20:04

Probably time to remind everyone that the US government:

1) Gives subsidies to tobacco farmers, and funds anti-smoking commercials.

2) Gives subsidies to beef suppliers, and funds heart disease commercials.

3) Sells oil leases and promotes alternative energies.

4) ....generally behaves as it is paid to behave by lobbyists.

Those of you who are even 20 years old have had enough time to observe the actions of government and understand the principle of pay-for-play. If you - and your similar-thinking buddies - can outbid Exxon-Mobil's lobbyists, then you can mete out some justice.

At least, you might have been able to, if you had elected Sanders or Trump as POTUS. HRC is gonna go for the highest bidder, and that's not you.
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Re: ExxonMobil hit with climate change investigation in New

Unread postby dohboi » Fri 28 Oct 2016, 08:41:51

Yup--all solutions pretty much must be incremental while the catastrophic consequences of CC cascade down around us. So either you do nothing, or you work on what are inevitably incremental and inadequate countermeasures.

We have long ago rule out better options.
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