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Elio Motors gets 84 mpg, costs $7000

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Re: Elio Motors gets 84 mpg, costs $7000

Unread postby Subjectivist » Tue 04 Dec 2018, 13:39:24

I was interested in one of these back in 2010 when oil shot back up into the $90/bbl bracket, but today gas is cheap!
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Re: Elio Motors gets 84 mpg, costs $7000

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Tue 04 Dec 2018, 15:02:10

Subjectivist wrote:I was interested in one of these back in 2010 when oil shot back up into the $90/bbl bracket, but today gas is cheap!

And if it gets expensive: even approaching, say, $10 a gallon in the US (fat chance anytime in the next decade, IMO), there are LOTS of good choices getting in the ballpark of 50 mpg even in the city, and getting better from there (PHEV, BEV, etc). And there will be more such choices every year from now on, in an increasingly competitive market place.

Of course, the best thing to do to get people who don't need them (i.e. for work or daily hauling needs) to quit driving big gas guzzling trucks and SUV's (for one stupid example of over-consumption) would be to add a significant gasoline tax. But in America, that isn't happening, as it might cost some people an election. :roll:
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: Elio Motors gets 84 mpg, costs $7000

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Tue 04 Dec 2018, 21:54:38

Geez, you almost mentioned the Democrats by name.
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Re: Elio Motors gets 84 mpg, costs $7000

Unread postby Cog » Tue 04 Dec 2018, 23:15:05

Please spare me from politicians who want to tax me for my own good.
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Re: Elio Motors gets 84 mpg, costs $7000

Unread postby Tanada » Tue 01 Jun 2021, 22:50:45

Basically when the KSA decided not to cut production in mid 2015 in an attempt to permanently kill the "Fracked Oil" boom in the USA the price of oil dropped like a rock. After spending most of five years in the $90-$110/bbl range Oil dropped from June 2015 to January 2016 by some 80% of its value. With that buying gasoline hit rock bottom for American consumers and nobody wanted to invest in a new super fuel efficient commuter vehicle with gasoline now selling at 25% of its 2010 prices.Then for the years 2017-2020 the Federal Government was very encouraging to fracking leases on federal land and pipeline permits and so on and so forth ensuring that even with low sale prices the Fracking industry survived.

Link to original with pictures below quoted text.

hotcars.com wrote:Were They Lying: Why The Elio Three Wheeler Is Stuck In Development Hell

It feels like ages since we've heard even the slightest whisper from a company that promised to re-invent the wheel.

While there's absolutely no concrete proof that Elio Motors were flat out lying about the release date of their three-wheeled commuter car of the future, almost a decade of waiting has a lot of people asking a lot of very serious questions.

It feels like ages since we've heard even the slightest whisper from a company that promised to re-invent the wheel. So let's take a look into the history and facts about Elio that we're currently aware of to try and understand why they've been radio silent for half a decade.

Paul Elio often presented himself in a manner that made him out to be a man of the people. Not often does the founder and CEO of any company get as involved in marketing and public relations as heavily as he has. He sights the 2008 oil crisis, which saw petroleum rise to unprecedented high prices, as well as a perceived failure from America's big three automakers to respond to this threat as the impetus behind launching his startup company.

He founded Elio Motors in 2009 with the supposed goal of building the ultimate cheap, utilitarian form of transportation that Americans actually wanted to buy. Six years of research and development lead to the P4 prototype. But financial problems routinely plagued the infant company.

Development of the P4 hadn't come cheap. Even with an entirely in-house design, several companies were contracted to provide internal components for the three-wheeled autocycle. Continental AG was contracted to make a set of tires specifically meant for the Elio P4's unorthodox wheel arrangement. The engine was sourced from Suzuki of Japan, who once provided the same three-cylinder engine to General Motors to power the Geo Metro sub-compact.

Further legal expenses accumulated in the form of lobbying in states require a motorcycle certification added to their driver's licenses. A hurdle that could potentially limit the scope of the P4's marketing demographic. After all was said and done, the prototype was completed in late 2014 and was ready for test drives in the spring of the following year. It was a blink and you'll miss it kind of moment because the company would subsequently go largely silent for the better part of five years.

Laying Out The Red Carpet For Mid 2010's Youtube Royalty
It feels like just yesterday that Elio was offering test drives of their prototype to prominent auto Youtubers and accepting deposits from interested customers. Famous faces like Scotty Kilmer, ChrisFix, and SaabKyle04 were offered unparalleled access to the recently finished prototype.

Test drivers were pleased overall with the Elios unorthodox yet innovative design. They noted how the driving experience was as close to a standard passenger car as they could hope to achieve in a three-wheeler configuration. Even if the three-pot engine couldn't carry a Geo Metro up a steep hill, the lightweight Elio got the most out of every precious horsepower.

Elio sat down with Kyle for a formal interview, during which he joked "Thank god that I don't think things through, if I'd sat down and thought of everything that would have to fall into place to get where we are today, I probably wouldn't have done it." He also compared his companies rise to that of Elon Musk and Tesla stating " We're further along probably than anyone other than Tesla, they've already made it."

The second half of the 2010s was as disastrous for Elio as the first half of the decade was promising. By 2016, the tentative production start date had already been pushed back several times. Even before the petrol-powered Elio hit production, mockups were unveiled for an all-electric alternative. It would be the last major piece of news directly from Elio top brass With tens of millions of dollars in debt accumulating and a quarter of a billion dollars at least needed to get the project into production, chances of the Elio P4 materializing seemed less likely as each year passed.

Even still, hundreds of thousands in deposit money sat in waiting as hundreds of customers waited and waited for news on their highly anticipated new car would be delivered. Years went by, yet the only response Elio public relations would offer was that the car would start production upon the completion of fundraising efforts. There's no evidence of any fundraising taking place after 2018.

Lots of great cars take a long time to get off the ground, but it's the seemingly deliberate lack of communication between Elio Motors and its customer base that has people suspecting wrong-doing. While there's no concrete proof of Paul Elio or Elio Motors deliberately manipulating data to falsely herald the beginning of production capability, their actions have still angered many who once touted Elio as the future of the automobile.

hat's more than likely the culprit is Paul Elio's own blind ambition. His candid interview with SaabKyle04 showed a more personable side to the engineer and his candid thoughts about not thinking things through lead us to suspect he simply bit off more than he could chew.

Even still, the people who put money down are starting to ask for it back. What eventually becomes of that mess will certainly be a sight to behold, and when it happens, we'll tell you about it. Stay tuned!

Sources; Scotty Kilmer, SaabKyle04, Motor 1

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Re: Elio Motors gets 84 mpg, costs $7000

Unread postby theluckycountry » Wed 21 Jul 2021, 07:58:46

Tanada wrote: ensuring that even with low sale prices the Fracking industry survived.


I sometimes wonder if it's the fracking industry they are supporting or the banks that underwrite the fracking. A bit of both probably. It's this psychology of previous investment that is our undoing.
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Re: Elio Motors gets 84 mpg, costs $7000

Unread postby AdamB » Wed 21 Jul 2021, 09:14:25

theluckycountry wrote:
Tanada wrote: ensuring that even with low sale prices the Fracking industry survived.


I sometimes wonder if it's the fracking industry they are supporting or the banks that underwrite the fracking. A bit of both probably. It's this psychology of previous investment that is our undoing.


Banks have certainly loaned money to the service companies specializing in completions, just like they do consumers, other banks, construction firms, etc etc. And those loans don't underwrite the services they provide, the fee's paid to them by the E&Ps for providing the service is what keeps them alive.

Perhaps you meant banks and investors loaning money to the E&Ps to grow the companies, because finding, drilling, completing and producing oil and gas is about WAY more than the type, size and cost of the completion.
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Re: Elio Motors gets 84 mpg, costs $7000

Unread postby theluckycountry » Thu 22 Jul 2021, 18:14:27

Back onto this Elio car, I recall the origins of the concept. A couple of decades ago I rode a Kawasaki ZZR 1100, it was a great bike for its day. Around 2001 they did a major upgrade and called it the ZZR 1200. It looked 'sort of' ok but the performance wasn't there compared to other bikes of the 00's and riders by and large rejected it. Some guys in California picked them up on the cheap, either as wrecks from accidents or just second hand I can't recall and they stripped off all the front and integrated the engine/gearbox and rear wheel into a three wheeler. That was the first time I ever saw one.

Here is a tube of one such conversion, made in canada, and you can see it has the factory pipes and at 0:44 you see they even used the dash from the ZZR 12 as pictured below.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6SfD-4CgD0

It makes total sense to repurpose these excellent Japanese engines and gearboxes rather than re-invent the wheel as Elio is now doing with their in-house engine. Which I can only surmise is some cheap pile of crap out of a chinese factory. Yes I know Chinese engines, I have had a lot of experience with them and believe me, so far they are rubbish.

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Re: Elio Motors gets 84 mpg, costs $7000

Unread postby AdamB » Thu 22 Jul 2021, 20:56:19

theluckycountry wrote:Back onto this Elio car, I recall the origins of the concept. A couple of decades ago I rode a Kawasaki ZZR 1100, it was a great bike for its day.


So was the earlier model ZX-11. And the earlier model ZX-10. And the earlier model Ninja 1000. And of course the original Ninja 900. Or the GPZ 750 turbo, but that was pre-Ninja marketing. American designations. By the time the ZX-11 showed up, I was mostly out of just big street bikes. My grandmother can pin back a throttle. But I did love all my 80's vintage Kawasaki's, as they kept growing and getting faster. I owned about half of them, some more than once, raced some against some others in my early street years, there were all good bikes.

Agree with you that building a car using a Japanese built motorcycle engine/tranny is a good foundation for most anything. I've got friends who run 4 wheeled racing series using them, near bullet proof.
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