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Donald Trump - like John Walker and Vladimir Lenin?

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Donald Trump - like John Walker and Vladimir Lenin?

Unread postby lpetrich » Wed 16 Jan 2019, 16:41:37

In the early decades of the Soviet Union, some people spied for it because they believed in its system. Spies like Klaus Fuchs, for instance. But some more recent spies did it because they needed the money. Spies like John Anthony Walker - Wikipedia:
While stationed on the nuclear-powered Fleet Ballistic Missile (FBM) submarine USS Andrew Jackson in Charleston, South Carolina, Walker opened a bar, which failed to turn a profit and immediately plunged him into debt.[1]

Walker began spying for the Soviets in late 1967,[8][9] when, distraught over his financial difficulties, he walked into the old Soviet embassy in Washington, D.C., sold a top secret document (a radio cipher card) for several thousand dollars, and negotiated an ongoing salary of $500 to $1,000 a week.[1]

He was eventually caught and found guilty, and he died in prison.

Looking at Donald Trump, in the 1990's, his business failures made it hard for him to get loans to start new businesses. But he then got bailed out by rich people from Russia and other ex-Soviet nations (How Russian Money Helped Save Trump’s Business – Foreign Policy).

That raises a very serious question. Did that bailout include some quid pro quo? Given the numerous contacts with Russian officials by his associates, one has to suspect that. Contacts documented in The Moscow Project and Links between Trump associates and Russian officials - Wikipedia. This Russian support for him apparently extended to electioneering that helped get him elected: Russian interference in the 2016 United States elections - Wikipedia
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Re: Donald Trump - like John Walker and Vladimir Lenin?

Unread postby lpetrich » Wed 16 Jan 2019, 16:49:09

I recently found a possible missing piece of the puzzle. Trump Discussed Pulling U.S. From NATO, Aides Say Amid New Concerns Over Russia - The New York Times
Last year, President Trump suggested a move tantamount to destroying NATO: the withdrawal of the United States.

Senior administration officials told The New York Times that several times over the course of 2018, Mr. Trump privately said he wanted to withdraw from the North Atlantic Treaty Organization. Current and former officials who support the alliance said they feared Mr. Trump could return to his threat as allied military spending continued to lag behind the goals the president had set.

In the days around a tumultuous NATO summit meeting last summer, they said, Mr. Trump told his top national security officials that he did not see the point of the military alliance, which he presented as a drain on the United States.

It would be a great payoff for Vladimir Putin, something great for him in return for those bailouts and that electioneering.

It is not just NATO.
he president has repeatedly and publicly challenged or withdrawn from a number of military and economic partnerships, from the Paris climate accord to an Asia-Pacific trade pact. He has questioned the United States’ military alliance with South Korea and Japan, and he has announced a withdrawal of American troops from Syria without first consulting allies in the American-led coalition to defeat the Islamic State.

By doing that, the US would become more internationally isolated, and thus weaker. Something that Putin would be very happy to see.

Trump gets along with Putin much better than he does with fellow leaders of democratic nations. By contrast, Barack Obama and Angela Merkel are good friends.
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Re: Donald Trump - like John Walker and Vladimir Lenin?

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Wed 16 Jan 2019, 17:09:23

The NATO issue is that of the 28 members, only 5 countries have met the NATO funding target of 2% of GDP:
Image
The chart is deceptive in the sense that it conceals the fact that the US funding is the major portion of the NATO budget, since our GDP is very large compared to the other member nations.

Then there is the fact that the only nation that ever invoked the NATO mutual defense treaty was the U.S., in the wake of the 9/11/2001 attacks. NATO countries with a very few exceptions declined to participate in the Gulf War 2.

The U.S. clearly gains nothing by being in NATO. Let them get along without us.
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Re: Donald Trump - like John Walker and Vladimir Lenin?

Unread postby Cog » Wed 16 Jan 2019, 17:13:59

lpetrich wrote:I recently found a possible missing piece of the puzzle. Trump Discussed Pulling U.S. From NATO, Aides Say Amid New Concerns Over Russia - The New York Times
Last year, President Trump suggested a move tantamount to destroying NATO: the withdrawal of the United States.

Senior administration officials told The New York Times that several times over the course of 2018, Mr. Trump privately said he wanted to withdraw from the North Atlantic Treaty Organization. Current and former officials who support the alliance said they feared Mr. Trump could return to his threat as allied military spending continued to lag behind the goals the president had set.

In the days around a tumultuous NATO summit meeting last summer, they said, Mr. Trump told his top national security officials that he did not see the point of the military alliance, which he presented as a drain on the United States.

It would be a great payoff for Vladimir Putin, something great for him in return for those bailouts and that electioneering.

It is not just NATO.
he president has repeatedly and publicly challenged or withdrawn from a number of military and economic partnerships, from the Paris climate accord to an Asia-Pacific trade pact. He has questioned the United States’ military alliance with South Korea and Japan, and he has announced a withdrawal of American troops from Syria without first consulting allies in the American-led coalition to defeat the Islamic State.

By doing that, the US would become more internationally isolated, and thus weaker. Something that Putin would be very happy to see.

Trump gets along with Putin much better than he does with fellow leaders of democratic nations. By contrast, Barack Obama and Angela Merkel are good friends.



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Re: Donald Trump - like John Walker and Vladimir Lenin?

Unread postby lpetrich » Wed 16 Jan 2019, 17:15:34

Now for the Vladimir Lenin analogy. Lenin had been a Russian revolutionary activist who fled into exile in western Europe after being exiled in Siberia for a few years. Early in 1917, he was living in Zürich, Switzerland. Russia entered World War I to help Serbia by attacking Germany and Austria-Hungary. But Germany beat Russia rather badly, and Russia's economy started to falter rather badly. Ordinary people were starving, and many soldiers deserted and mutinied. By early 1917, it seemed like a full-scale revolution. Tsar Nicholas II abdicated on March 15, and he was succeeded by the Provisional Government.

Lenin wanted to join the revolution, but getting to Russia was difficult. A colleague made a deal for him to cross Germany in a sealed train. German officials were already distributing propaganda to Russian troops, and they were happy at the thought of further destabilization that a big-name revolutionary would likely cause.

So he and 31 associates departed Zürich on April 3, and they changed trains to a commandeered military train on the German border. That train was diplomatically sealed but not physically sealed. The train made its way across Germany to Sassnitz on the Baltic Sea. They then took a ferry to Sweden, went north to the Finnish border, crossed over into Finland, and eventually arrived at Finland Station in St. Petersburg / Petrograd on April 15.

He got to work, promising among other things, peace with Germany, unlike the Provisional Government keeping the war going. Late that year, he and his fellow Bolsheviks overthrew the Provisional Government, and they soon ended up fighting their opponents in the Russian Civil War, which ended in 1921.

But they did not forget about peace with Germany, and on March 3, 1918, they signed the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk. Germany and Austria-Hungary got the westernmost parts of the Russian Empire -- the most industrialized parts. Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, the Russian parts of Poland, Belarus, Ukraine, and Moldova.

To Germany's leaders, it was a big triumph, I'm sure, since it was a lot more than what they might reasonably have expected when they sent Lenin in a sealed train through their territory.


It seems to me that Vladimir Putin had supported Donald Trump for much the same reason, with a similar hoped-for outcome.
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Re: Donald Trump - like John Walker and Vladimir Lenin?

Unread postby Cog » Wed 16 Jan 2019, 17:22:00

Not long ago the left loved Russia and all things Russia. Said America should adopt their communist ways. But where did the love go? LOL

You have went full retard with the Trump hate Ipetrich. Never go full retard. Have you overdosed on CNN or something?
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Re: Donald Trump - like John Walker and Vladimir Lenin?

Unread postby lpetrich » Wed 01 May 2019, 06:10:24

Cog wrote:
lpetrich wrote:Trump gets along with Putin much better than he does with fellow leaders of democratic nations. By contrast, Barack Obama and Angela Merkel are good friends.

(Image snipped for brevity. It showed an anguished Captain Picard, and it stated "Just. Stop. Your stupid is making my brain cry.")

I can't help it if the truth hurts.
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Re: Donald Trump - like John Walker and Vladimir Lenin?

Unread postby lpetrich » Wed 01 May 2019, 06:15:54

Cog wrote:Not long ago the left loved Russia and all things Russia. Said America should adopt their communist ways.

Like who? There are more things in Heaven and Earth than are dreamt of in groves of birch trees.
But where did the love go? LOL

Putin-era Russia has been much more sympathetic to the Right than to the Left.
You have went full retard with the Trump hate Ipetrich. Never go full retard. Have you overdosed on CNN or something?

CNN? The Capitalist News Network?
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Re: Donald Trump - like John Walker and Vladimir Lenin?

Unread postby Cog » Wed 01 May 2019, 06:53:05

The Mueller report found no Russian collusion or conspiracy by any American. I guess the premise of this thread didn't age well.
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Re: Donald Trump - like John Walker and Vladimir Lenin?

Unread postby lpetrich » Wed 01 May 2019, 14:09:32

Cog wrote:The Mueller report found no Russian collusion or conspiracy by any American. I guess the premise of this thread didn't age well.

The whole report or Trump lackey Barr's summary of it?
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Re: Donald Trump - like John Walker and Vladimir Lenin?

Unread postby Plantagenet » Wed 01 May 2019, 15:44:48

lpetrich wrote:
Cog wrote:The Mueller report found no Russian collusion or conspiracy by any American. I guess the premise of this thread didn't age well.

The whole report or .... Barr's summary of it?


Both of them.

Mueller found there was no collusion or conspiracy between Trump or his Campaign with the Russians.

The bottom line is you've been fooled into believing a conspiracy theory with no basis in fact.

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Re: Donald Trump - like John Walker and Vladimir Lenin?

Unread postby lpetrich » Wed 01 May 2019, 19:36:32

Plantagenet wrote:Mueller found there was no collusion or conspiracy between Trump or his Campaign with the Russians.

Mueller Found Evidence of Collusion - The Moscow Project -- which goes to show that there are more things in Heaven and Earth than are dreamt of in Fox News.

Trump’s Russia Cover-Up By the Numbers – 251 contacts with Russia-linked operatives - The Moscow Project -- with that many, one has to ask what they are up to.
On April 18, 2019, a redacted copy of Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s “Report On The Investigation Into Russian Interference In The 2016 Presidential Election” (Mueller Report) was released to the public. The Mueller report builds on the U.S. intelligence community’s conclusion that there were two campaigns to elect Donald Trump— one run by Trump and one run by the Russian government. The Mueller report clearly identified collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia, despite repeated denials from Trump and many of his senior advisers and close associates that there were any connections between the two campaigns.

About these contacts,
None of these contacts were ever reported to the proper authorities. Instead, the Trump team tried to cover up every single one of them.

Beyond the many lies the Trump team told to the American people, Mueller himself repeatedly remarked on how far the Trump team was willing to go to hide their Russian contacts, stating, “the investigation established that several individuals affiliated with the Trump Campaign lied to the Office, and to Congress, about their interactions with Russian-affiliated individuals and related matters. Those lies materially impaired the investigation of Russian election interference.”


Links between Trump associates and Russian officials - Wikipedia has plenty on this subject.
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Re: Donald Trump - like John Walker and Vladimir Lenin?

Unread postby Cog » Wed 01 May 2019, 20:32:52

If Mueller had a chargeable offense he should have charged someone. He charged no one with conspiracy or collusion. I know this bums you out. Go march in a May Day parade comrade. You will feel better.
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Re: Donald Trump - like John Walker and Vladimir Lenin?

Unread postby Cog » Wed 01 May 2019, 21:47:39

You really should read the Mueller report so you can discuss it. From Page 5 of the report

The investigation did not establish that members of the Trump campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities.

So two years later here we are. A political investigation of a candidate and then a president that had no underlying crime. Now the Attorney General and OIG are investigating how we got here and what elements of the intelligence and law enforcement community conspired to unseat a duly elected president.

The Dems should have never gone down this road since its going to blow back on them. Something I warned about a year ago.
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Re: Donald Trump - like John Walker and Vladimir Lenin?

Unread postby lpetrich » Thu 02 May 2019, 01:31:32

Cog wrote:The investigation did not establish that members of the Trump campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities.

"We couldn't prove that they were guilty" != "We proved that they were innocent"
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Re: Donald Trump - like John Walker and Vladimir Lenin?

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Thu 02 May 2019, 04:33:43

It is impossible to "prove" a negative. That is why the US Constitution, and the English Common Law it is based upon, give an accused person the right to be assumed innocent.

Which you would understand if you had two wits to rub together. But then, you don't understand it. Nor do you understand that the opposition politicians who kept this useless "investigation" alive for 2+ years both wasted hundreds of millions of dollars, and did incalculable damage to the office of the Attorney General, the Dept. of Justice, and the FBI and other law enforcement agencies.

For the reasoning-challenged among you, each politician that participated in this "special" investigation is guilty of violating their oath of office - the part where they swear to uphold the provisions of the US Constitution.

The burden of proof is on the prosecutor, who failed to find a single chargeable criminal offense. What happens next is that anybody who was coerced into false testimony by threats of "criminal conspiracy" sues the government for malicious prosecution, which cases will be settled for even more money. The clear winners: all the attorneys involved. The clear losers: the U S taxpayers.
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Re: Donald Trump - like John Walker and Vladimir Lenin?

Unread postby lpetrich » Thu 02 May 2019, 09:55:02

KaiserJeep, are you talking about the Republicans' endless wastes of time about Benghazi and Hillary's e-mails? This seems like something from a card-carrying member of the ACLU.

Mueller Found Evidence of Collusion - The Moscow Project found these six pieces of evidence:
Trump knew about Russia’s interference and asked Manafort to keep him “updated” on WikiLeaks.

Trump’s campaign chairman discussed the campaign’s strategy for winning Democratic votes in midwestern states and continuously shared polling data with a Russian intelligence agent.

The Trump Campaign developed a whole campaign plan based on their knowledge that more WikiLeaks releases were coming.

The Trump campaign knew it was coordinating with a Russian “spy.”

Russian intelligence gave Roger Stone the Democrats’ turnout model for the “entire presidential campaign.”

Trump directed his campaign to get Clinton emails in an effort that included outreach to Russia.

In addition to known examples of collusion:
The June 9 meeting: Donald Trump Jr. received an email from an emissary for a Russian oligarch explicitly offering dirt on Hillary Clinton “as part of Russia and its government’s support for Mr. Trump.” Trump Jr. not only eagerly took the meeting but brought in the campaign’s chairman and Jared Kushner, and even offered initial guidance for when to release the “dirt.”

George Papadopoulos and the hacked emails

A suspected Russian agent was on the campaign

Mueller decided not to prosecute for collusion because he found nothing that fit a rather strict standard that he set for himself for prosecuting anyone. But he has already found plenty of evidence of wrongdoing. From the Moscow Project's home page:
37 Indictments.
7 Guilty Pleas.
250+ Contacts.
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Re: Donald Trump - like John Walker and Vladimir Lenin?

Unread postby Plantagenet » Thu 02 May 2019, 12:22:37

lpetrich wrote:
Mueller Found Evidence of Collusion - The Moscow Project found these six pieces of evidence:

....Trump knew about Russia’s interference


Actually, no. Even though the FBI knew that Russia had interfered in the 2014 election Obama kept it secret. The FBI knew early on that the Russians were again interfering in the 2016 election, and Obama again decided to keep Russian interference secret until very late in the game. Obama never went public on it until very late in the 2016 campaign, putting the integrity of the 2016 election at risk.

... WikiLeaks.


Trying over and over to link Trump to Wikileaks is IDIOTIC. The whole world knew about Wikileaks. Wikileaks regularly published material that was then reprinted in the NY Times, WaPo, London Times, Guardian, etc.

For heavens sakes....we regularly discussed what was released on Wikileaks right here on peakoil.com. Trying to make a big deal out of reading Wikileaks is crazy.

Trump’s campaign chairman discussed the campaign’s strategy for winning Democratic votes in midwestern states and .... shared polling data with a Russian intelligence agent.


True enough. But Trump fired him because he wasn't a good campaign manager.

WikiLeaks ...


See my note on Wikileaks above.

If you still don't understand that Wikileaks is a news organization publishing news, then answer this question. WHY DIDN'T MUELLER INDICT WIKILEAKS? And the answer is....because its a news organization.

Do you get it now?

------------------------

Cheers!
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Re: Donald Trump - like John Walker and Vladimir Lenin?

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Thu 02 May 2019, 14:53:36

Note that I am not, and never have been, a Republican. In fact I despise them almost as much as the Democrats. What I am is resolutely anti-partisan.

I have YOU, Ipetrich, tentatively tagged as another victim of American-style "higher education" and the stridently anti-Republican, pro-Democrat American media, including unfortunately the NPR/PBS crowd where all the nutjobs come to rest.

I just wish that "higher education" nowadays still included training young minds to reason after assessing evidence. Because you see I came from a different world, one where Eisenhower was considered a dangerous Liberal because he racially integrated the US Armed Forces, while encouraging the exercise of Civil Rights for minorities. This while the extreme right wing of American politics - the anti-Civil Rights Democrats called the "Dixiecrats", burned crosses and threatened violence.

You see, every damned time they peeled the sheets off of a KKK member, they invariably found a Democrat. Which you obviously cannot process and resolve, because you actually believe the hot gases the Democrats are blowing out of both ends of their GI tracts.
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Re: Donald Trump - like John Walker and Vladimir Lenin?

Unread postby dissident » Mon 06 May 2019, 20:47:22

The faith of the D. partisans in the D. Party is unbalanced. It is much like some religious sect that is not engaged in rational thought. The D. Party is just another political party and not the party of God or the guiding light of humanity. I have heard people practically foaming at the mouth call Trump a racist. If he was one, then it would have been an issue long before 2016. Trump was a freaking celebrity for decades. I now listen to D. partisans yap about how "Trump thinks that he should not be investigated for anything before 2016" after the big fat nonthingburger delivered in Mueller's report. What the Holy F*ck. Do you clowns even listen to the tin foil hat drivel you spew? Trump has let this witch hunt for himself proceed without interference. But you partisan clowns run around that he is preventing a proper investigation. Grow up and get a life.
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