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Donald Trump - like John Walker and Vladimir Lenin?

A forum for discussion of regional topics including oil depletion but also government, society, and the future.

Re: Donald Trump - like John Walker and Vladimir Lenin?

Unread postby lpetrich » Wed 08 May 2019, 20:46:33

Fox & Friends wants you to think Trump losing $1 billion is impressive - Vox
Fox News wants you to believe that a bombshell New York Times report about Trump losing more than $1 billion in the decade between 1985 and 1994 is actually no big deal. In fact, it actually reflects how impressive Trump is.

Then continued with the FaF discussion of it, "a discussion that would likely make Kim Jong Un blush if it appeared on North Korean state TV."
But it’s worth remembering previous New York Times reporting from last October about how Trump received nearly half a billion dollars from his dad, then maintained his fortune with the help of “dubious tax schemes,” including “instances of outright fraud.” Viewed in that light, losing so much money is nothing to be proud of, and in combination, the stories cut against the image Trump has cultivated as a successful self-made businessman.

It’s also worth remembering that Fox News spun the Times report from last October in the most pro-Trump manner possible.


Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "Wouldn’t you think someone who personally lost over a BILLION dollars (“more than nearly any other taxpayer in America”) be vulnerable to shady activity to get out of that hole? If they became the most powerful public servant in America, wouldn’t you want to see their taxes? (hmmm...) … https://t.co/NxX9ozSewD"
noting
Susanne Craig on Twitter: "JUST POSTED: The New York Times has obtained 10 years of previously unrevealed figures from Donald Trump's federal income-tax returns - from 1985 to 1994. Trump ran up $1.2 billion in core business losses in the decade we examined. LOTS here -> https://t.co/Yc23kj9HEa"

I think that AOC is right about that. That's why I compared Donald Trump to John Walker.
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Re: Donald Trump - like John Walker and Vladimir Lenin?

Unread postby Cog » Wed 08 May 2019, 21:22:21

Is there a crime somewhere in all of this? Cause I'm not seeing it.

Sorry your girl lost. Maybe in six more years of Trump, you can move on with your life.
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Re: Donald Trump - like John Walker and Vladimir Lenin?

Unread postby lpetrich » Thu 09 May 2019, 14:42:08

Cog wrote:Is there a crime somewhere in all of this? Cause I'm not seeing it.

Does there have to be? Even if there isn't, it is strong evidence that DT is not a genius businessman. A genius bullshitter, maybe, but not a genius businessman.
Sorry your girl lost.

Personality-cultism projection. Hillary Clinton isn't a Donald Trump figure for me. She was no FDR, even though she would have been MUCH better than that what we have now, with his garbage-fire presidency.
Maybe in six more years of Trump, you can move on with your life.

Seems like it could be two years. Governor William Weld has entered the race on the Republican side, and other Republicans might do so, like Bob Corker, Larry Hogan, and John Kasich. I think that Bill Weld, Larry Hogan, and John Kasich could easily position themselves as level-headed moderates who know how to work with other politicians, and who know who the US's friends are.
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Re: Donald Trump - like John Walker and Vladimir Lenin?

Unread postby Plantagenet » Thu 09 May 2019, 15:47:32

lpetrich wrote: DT is not a genius businessman. A genius bullshitter, maybe, but not a genius businessman.


You lost me there. Is there something wrong with minimizing the amount of taxes you pay? Google and Amazon pay no income taxes year after year and nobody thinks they're stupid for not paying income taxes.

I'm not saying its right. In fact I'd like to see our tax code changed so rich companies pay more taxes. But given the nature of our tax code is seems silly to criticize Trump for not paying taxes. Minimizing the amount of taxes you pay is actually smart if there is a legal way to do it.

CHEERS!
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Re: Donald Trump - like John Walker and Vladimir Lenin?

Unread postby Cog » Thu 09 May 2019, 23:19:21

Weld, Corker, and Kasich are all cucks and Rinos. Not a chance they do anything against Trump. Only a Democrat would give them any credence at all.

Why would you vote for Democrat Light like Kasich when you can vote for the real thing?
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Re: Donald Trump - like John Walker and Vladimir Lenin?

Unread postby Cog » Sun 19 May 2019, 07:28:06

Amash is a Never Trumper and Kasich is an ex politician. What else you got?
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Re: Donald Trump - like John Walker and Vladimir Lenin?

Unread postby lpetrich » Sun 19 May 2019, 08:46:48

Cog wrote:Amash is a Never Trumper and Kasich is an ex politician. What else you got?

What would you find impressive? Senator Mitch McConnell turning against him?
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Re: Donald Trump - like John Walker and Vladimir Lenin?

Unread postby Cog » Thu 30 May 2019, 14:20:36

Kasich is irrelevant as he is a RINO who cares more about what the media and the Democrats think about him then what Trump's base thinks of him. A graceful loser like McCain and Romney. If I wanted to vote for a Democrat I'd vote for a real one. Kasich only matters to Never Trumpers and the media. He is not important to anyone else.
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Re: Donald Trump - like John Walker and Vladimir Lenin?

Unread postby lpetrich » Thu 30 May 2019, 14:42:47

If Trump and his associates were not colluding with Russian officials, then what were they doing? Trump ought to have come clean about whatever it was, and he ought to have conceded that the bailouts of him made him seem bought. Instead, he tried to cover it up, and the coverup made it worse.

It is just like the Watergate scandal, where President Nixon and his aides tried to interfere with investigations of their misdeeds. Doing so only made it worse, and it became so bad that Nixon decided to resign.
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Re: Donald Trump - like John Walker and Vladimir Lenin?

Unread postby Cog » Thu 30 May 2019, 15:02:40

If you were accused of a crime you know you did not commit, would you not proclaim your innocence of such a crime and accuse your accuser of a witch-hunt? That is precisely how Trump has reacted over the last two years.

What bailouts are we talking about? Be specific. It is not illegal to talk to foreign agents to dig up dirt on your opponent. The DNC and the Clinton campaign spent millions contacting a foreign agent ( Ex-MI-6 Steele) to dig up dirt on Trump. Do you want her charged with something? I don't. This is politics.

Now if you have a specific charge you want levied on Donald Trump then specify it. The Special Counsel could not find one. Perhaps you will tell the class what you want Trump charged with. Collusion is not a crime, and it did not occur in any event. But perhaps CNN can find a charge. LOL
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Re: Donald Trump - like John Walker and Vladimir Lenin?

Unread postby dissident » Sat 01 Jun 2019, 17:09:10

We are dealing with MSM generated hysteria. Not rational thought. I know a university professor who teaches science topics (i.e. not some humanities or social science SJW idiot) who is basically spouting all the CNN tropes and narratives as if he is actually doing the thinking. It is really sad to see a smart man be nothing more than an information condom for CNN et al. propaganda. Thanks to the cacophony of MSM BS people actually experience cognitive dissonance when a balanced view of Trump is offered. They stand there flailing with vapid assertions such as "Trump is a racist" and "Trump thinks that none of his business dealings should be investigated". These condoms are clearly not using their brains whatsoever.

The cherry on top of the this propaganda turd cake is the recent Orwellian consensus in the D. Party for impeachment due to "lack of exoneration". This is making up legal concepts on the fly to serve a political agenda. And these clowns are the ones who are supposed to pass legislation...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjljhgZgH4g
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Re: Donald Trump - like John Walker and Vladimir Lenin?

Unread postby lpetrich » Sun 02 Jun 2019, 14:04:21

Cog wrote:If you were accused of a crime you know you did not commit, would you not proclaim your innocence of such a crime and accuse your accuser of a witch-hunt? That is precisely how Trump has reacted over the last two years.

No, one would challenge one's accusers to provide evidence, and then rebut whatever case that they had made. He has not done that. Instead, he has whined about how what a victim he is.
What bailouts are we talking about? Be specific.

How Russian Money Helped Save Trump’s Business – Foreign Policy Something that Donald Trump, Jr. has admitted.

Robert Mueller was not allowed to indict Donald Trump. In fact, he seems to want Congress to take over from him. But his report has oodles of evidence of suspicious contacts and attempts to cover them up.
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Re: Donald Trump - like John Walker and Vladimir Lenin?

Unread postby lpetrich » Sun 02 Jun 2019, 14:29:20

dissident wrote:We are dealing with MSM generated hysteria. ...

Hysteria???

Political Polarization & Media Habits | Pew Research Center
Some sources are trusted mostly by the Right, and some mostly by the Left, but there are no sources that are mostly trusted by the Center. There are lots of sources that are trusted by both the Left and the Center, but only Fox News is trusted by both the Right and the Center. So it is evident that the Right has its own media bubble.
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Re: Donald Trump - like John Walker and Vladimir Lenin?

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sun 02 Jun 2019, 18:52:51

lpetrich wrote: .... Fox News ......


Its been interesting watching Bernie Sanders and Pete Butegieg and other Ds appearing in special "Town Hall" broadcasts on Fox News. It also makes those Ds who claim Fox News doesn't cover the Ds look like idiots, since Fox News is clearly giving a great deal of special coverage to the Ds running for President in 2020..

Cheers!
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Re: Donald Trump - like John Walker and Vladimir Lenin?

Unread postby lpetrich » Thu 06 Jun 2019, 10:26:13

My principal-components analysis shows two main axes of variation: left-to-right and centrist appeal. The data formed two separate clusters with a gap between them as large as each individual one's scatter. This PCA result agreed with the results of a separate cluster analysis.

The longest axis was left-to-right, and the mainstream news media and left-wing outlets formed one cluster and right-wing outlets the other cluster, with the gap between them being the size of the first one's scatter.

The second longest axis was centrist appeal, and both clusters had a sizable stretch in that axis, much more than their left-to-right extent. The first one had the longest stretch, from The Economist to The Daily Kos, and the second one from Fox News to the Rush Limbaugh Show.


As to the Mueller Report, I recently downloaded it, and it's *big*. It comes with two parts, the contacts between Donald Trump's campaign organization and Russian officials, and also the attempts to cover up those contacts. It's not like Trump wanted to buy beachfront property in Siberia.
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Re: Donald Trump - like John Walker and Vladimir Lenin?

Unread postby Cog » Thu 06 Jun 2019, 13:41:34

Mueller recommended no further indictments based on everything he listed in Volume 1 and 2 of the report. If he had anything of evidentiary value he could have. Nothingburger. But if Dems want to impeach, go for it. I'll have a Coke and laugh while this backfires spectacularly on them.
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Re: Donald Trump - like John Walker and Vladimir Lenin?

Unread postby lpetrich » Fri 07 Jun 2019, 06:29:10

Robert Mueller himself disagrees with that conclusion. Seems like he's saying "This is as far as I can go. Congress, it's your turn."

Mueller’s 'Central Allegation' Is Being Widely Ignored - The Atlantic "The special counsel chose his opening and closing remarks with care—and they weren’t about obstruction of justice."
“Let me begin where the appointment order begins, and that is interference in the 2016 presidential election,” Mueller said, and he sketched out briefly what his investigation alleged: that Russian intelligence officers “launched a concerted attack on our political system,” and released information in a scheme “designed and timed to interfere with our election and to damage a presidential candidate.” Meanwhile, “a private Russian entity engaged in a social-media operation where Russian citizens posed as Americans in order to influence an election.” He added, “The matters we investigated were of paramount importance.​​”

...
I will close by reiterating the central allegation of our indictments that there were multiple, systematic efforts to interference in our election. And that allegation deserves the attention of every American. Thank you. Thank you for being here today.

Something that Trump and his underlings have been willing to go along with, if nothing else.
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Re: Donald Trump - like John Walker and Vladimir Lenin?

Unread postby lpetrich » Fri 07 Jun 2019, 06:34:40

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is Schooling Trump on How To Do Twitter | Opinion

Their purposes:
  • AOC:
    • Advocating - with arguments and evidence
    • Reframing - correcting the record and calling out her critics - directly and respectfully
    • Performing - herself as thoughtful, engaged, empathetic, and fun-loving - demonstrating admirable qualities
  • DT:
    • Dissembling - disinformation and conspiracy theories - by assertion without evidence
    • Distracting - from news that he dislikes - by creating drama where none existed
    • Discrediting - demeaning and degrading anyone who disagrees with him - from his lack of admirable qualities
Their styles:
  • AOC - amicable, assertive, analytical - makes a case - reasoned, structured (like bulleted lists), situated (with pix and emojis)
  • DT - angry, authoritarian, hyperbolic - rants and raves, including all-caps - simple, impulsive, uncivil
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