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Denial of the Possibility of Unsurvivable Biosphere

Re: Denial of the Possibility of Unsurvivable Biosphere

Unread postby Cog » Tue 21 Aug 2018, 12:46:34

That makes them economic refugees not climate change refugees. Either way they need to go back and stop them from invading. Poland figured this out fairly quickly.
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Re: Denial of the Possibility of Unsurvivable Biosphere

Unread postby GHung » Tue 21 Aug 2018, 14:14:01

Cog wrote:That makes them economic refugees not climate change refugees. Either way they need to go back and stop them from invading. Poland figured this out fairly quickly.


Of course, if you are too thick or deluded to understand that climate change affects economies, I can understand your point. On the other hand, it's a pretty good bet your ancestors were the invaders, whether or not climate had anything to do with it.
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Re: Denial of the Possibility of Unsurvivable Biosphere

Unread postby EnergyUnlimited » Tue 21 Aug 2018, 15:15:29

Cog wrote:That makes them economic refugees not climate change refugees. Either way they need to go back and stop them from invading. Poland figured this out fairly quickly.

Cog,
As you perhaps know, I live in Poland.
IMO these peoples are environmental refugees mixed with american bombing related refugees, and yes, they *must* be stopped, regardless of necessary means.
Perhaps top 1% base on education, wealth and genetic qualities can *still* be considered, as long as they renounce islam, but general crowds have to be turned back, regardless how humane or inhumane that might be.
Western Europe is already heading towards civil war and in countries like Sweden or France low intensity civil war have already arrived.
Women are scared walking alone in public areas.
Last and this summer I had several holiday bookings from Germans. While placing these bookings they were making sure over the phone that their vives and daughters will be able to enjoy sunbathing without being harassed by "ME scum". So I have got new class of customers now - Germans fleeing Germany in search of peace.
This must stop or West as a whole will cease to exist and it will morph into ME type of hellhole where countless small groups busy with hating one another have made governance and general peace impossible.
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Re: Denial of the Possibility of Unsurvivable Biosphere

Unread postby Cog » Tue 21 Aug 2018, 21:18:37

Where is Charles Martel when you need him?
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Re: Denial of the Possibility of Unsurvivable Biosphere

Unread postby dohboi » Tue 21 Aug 2018, 21:40:55

"if you are too thick or deluded to understand that climate change affects economies"

nicely put

hard to even begin to interact with such dolts
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Re: Denial of the Possibility of Unsurvivable Biosphere

Unread postby ralfy » Tue 21 Aug 2018, 22:14:23

The Limit to Growth model has several scenarios involving regulation of resource use and pollution, but I think they involve extensive cooperation between governments. That will be difficult given the lack of such during this century and the previous one.
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Re: Denial of the Possibility of Unsurvivable Biosphere

Unread postby diemos » Tue 21 Aug 2018, 23:00:24

Newfie wrote:I’ve decided to act as if there is a chance for my kids to pass the bottleneck ...


So has everyone else, that's the problem.
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Re: Denial of the Possibility of Unsurvivable Biosphere

Unread postby EnergyUnlimited » Wed 22 Aug 2018, 06:57:17

Cog wrote:Where is Charles Martel when you need him?

Even if he has appeared somehow, there would be very few warriors to follow.
Gays and feminists would insist on his abdication and transsexuals would sue for discrimination.
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Re: Denial of the Possibility of Unsurvivable Biosphere

Unread postby Newfie » Wed 22 Aug 2018, 08:01:23

diemos wrote:
Newfie wrote:I’ve decided to act as if there is a chance for my kids to pass the bottleneck ...


So has everyone else, that's the problem.


Exactly, and always was.

What is the possible option?
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Re: Denial of the Possibility of Unsurvivable Biosphere

Unread postby Ibon » Wed 22 Aug 2018, 08:08:40

Newfie wrote:
diemos wrote:
Newfie wrote:I’ve decided to act as if there is a chance for my kids to pass the bottleneck ...


So has everyone else, that's the problem.


Exactly, and always was.



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Re: Denial of the Possibility of Unsurvivable Biosphere

Unread postby Newfie » Wed 22 Aug 2018, 08:29:28

Agreed, but again what option?
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Re: Denial of the Possibility of Unsurvivable Biosphere

Unread postby Ibon » Wed 22 Aug 2018, 17:57:07

Newfie wrote:Agreed, but again what option?



Reminds me of the immigration debate oddly enough.

We are trying to figure out a humane solution for those already here and set limits so that more don't enter.

In overshoot we are all illegal immigrants on the planet!
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Re: Denial of the Possibility of Unsurvivable Biosphere

Unread postby dohboi » Thu 23 Aug 2018, 10:35:23

One option: encourage them to become one (or more!) of EU's dreaded categories--feminists, gays or transexuals.

Especially feminists, though, since activism to promote women's full rights and education has been shown to be among the most effective forms of (voluntary, humane) population control! :)

Oh, and thanks to EU for showing us clearly what his ignorant and bigoted prejudices are exactly. We'll all keep those in mind for future reference.
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Re: Denial of the Possibility of Unsurvivable Biosphere

Unread postby evilgenius » Thu 23 Aug 2018, 12:43:42

SeaGypsy wrote:
mmasters wrote:IMO the best solution, if you think you're smart enough that is, is to get into the top 1%, you might be able to make a difference in that position, everything else is just jerking off in the wind.


Except for a few issues- 1/ the 1% aren't actually in control, nobody is, it's not like that. 2/ the 1% are mostly there by luck of birth, exceedingly few on 'intelligence' (there's no evidence the 1% are any more intelligent than any other quintile). 3/ as mentioned previously, there's no way to undo human nature, most people still want to breed & will do so as long as doing so is possible.


But people do respond to the external world when they consider whether to have children. It's those who treat the decision as something to be left to accident that your criticism applies to, not everyone. Pity that means most of us. I think Pstarr's insinuation that there is more to such a thing is relevant in this case. People are suffering under obsolete memes birthed in a time when religions were being born, when it wasn't certain that mankind would either survive or thrive to our current point. You tell a tiny little group to be fruitful and multiply. You don't say the same thing to a world with over 7 billion people on it. The trouble is that people understand things both verbally and non-verbally. The power of memes comes from how people perceive non-verbally. In this case I don't mean body language, but the emotions generated by the echo of words, completely outside of the words themselves. There's a crazy distribution of responses, with a standard response coming from the largest group. The only way to change it is to talk about it, to get it back into the place where ideas are sewn back together and not left to the abstract realm of emotion. It's deeper than advertising. Who can lure the conservatives out to have that conversation?
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Re: Denial of the Possibility of Unsurvivable Biosphere

Unread postby Newfie » Fri 24 Aug 2018, 15:56:16

Evil,

Exactly right. We need to be able to talk to one another. More to the point we need to be able to listen to one another. Very few of us come here just to be a jerk and agitate folks.

Look at the interaction above between EU and Dohboi. Eu stayed his ideas and concerns. Rather than disscus them or attempt to draw him out in weaknesses Dohboi simply attacked. Maybe DohBOI attacked or threatened by EUs position we can’t tell. If he has a good counter argument to EUs position we can’t tell.

That is exactly the behavior that makes dealing with the memes so difficult. Also one needs to remember that we each have our memes and prejidicrs and historic stances. True open communication is a lot of work and it means reconsidering your own values.
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Re: Denial of the Possibility of Unsurvivable Biosphere

Unread postby dohboi » Fri 24 Aug 2018, 20:01:41

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

EU made clear that he hated feminists, gays and transsexuals.

Yet you prefer to describe that in neutral terms, that he was merely "stayed [sic] his ideas and concerns"

If you think that the appropriate thing to do when prejudice and hate rear their ugly heads is to just 'play nice,' well, I guess that tells us a lot more about you than perhaps you intended to divulge.
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Re: Denial of the Possibility of Unsurvivable Biosphere

Unread postby Newfie » Sat 25 Aug 2018, 05:44:18

I didn’t read any of that in his post. None.

What I read was that he was concerned for Western Culture in the face of immigration pressure. What I HEARD was that Western Culture, which embraces the folks you noted, was being endangered by folks from a different culture, who have a very different set of values, who often do not tolerate the diversity you mention.
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Re: Denial of the Possibility of Unsurvivable Biosphere

Unread postby EnergyUnlimited » Sat 25 Aug 2018, 08:30:45

Newfie wrote:I didn’t read any of that in his post. None.

What I read was that he was concerned for Western Culture in the face of immigration pressure. What I HEARD was that Western Culture, which embraces the folks you noted, was being endangered by folks from a different culture, who have a very different set of values, who often do not tolerate the diversity you mention.

To clarify:
I have noted that those who are the laudest advocates of inviting immigrants, means mainly left wing and few loud groups explicitly mentioned in my post will be *the first* to be crushed by an alternative culture brought by migrants to Europe, once it have set its foot here.
They appear to act *against* their own interests right now, and they would hinder anyone who tries to preserve western culture and incidentally could preserve a possibility of continuation of a life style elected by said groups.
So it would be far easier for an average conservative to live under Islam than for feminist, gay, transsexual etc.
Heck, wife beaters may well welcome a change.
That is why I do not understand why said groups are so much embracing migration.
Suicide mission?
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Re: Denial of the Possibility of Unsurvivable Biosphere

Unread postby Newfie » Sat 25 Aug 2018, 11:36:40

OK. pretty much what I thought you meant. Thanks for clarifying.
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Re: Denial of the Possibility of Unsurvivable Biosphere

Unread postby diemos » Sat 25 Aug 2018, 13:46:50

EnergyUnlimited wrote:Suicide mission?


Ideologically possessed. If we just pretend hard enough that every one is the same then we will all be able to live together happily for ever after.
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