[Outcast_Searcher]

Outcast,

I agree all the “he said, she said” drama is getting old, very old. I don’t know enough to sort it all out. Yet, I admit I’m starting to lean towards the R view on this one. I’ve seen some pieces by the Hill and USA Today, relatively middle road organizations, critical of the DOJ/FBI.

That aside consider this.... IF Trump colluded with a foreign power to throw the election then that is a very, very BIG deal and it should be dealt with directly. If Trump did that then the SOB should not be allowed to stand in office one day more.

....

The country needs to get beyond this mess.

I agree with you completely, except that if it takes longer to do the investigation right (including getting beyond various political obfuscation), I'm willing to wait. To me that's better than bringing a half-assed case or giving up.

I'm neutral on this, except I want the truth instead of more speculation, and speculation is mainly what I see from both sides.

...

FWIW, I didn't think Trump should have been allowed to take office without formally putting his investment assets into a TRULY objectively blind trust, instead of nodding and winking and letting family members run things. I am appalled that the process isn't more formal, and that members of congress are allowed free reign re their financial dealings re investments and conflicts of interest with their positions of power.

So the whole system is messed up in multiple ways, IMO. And then we wonder why things don't get better.

[Newfie]

Yeah, I think the system is beyond fixing. But it’s entertaining, and that’s what most folks really want anyway.

Think about this: the reason Hillary lost is because to many people simply did not like her, they don’t want to wake up and hear her shrill voice. They don’t like Trump, but he is less annoying.

Clearly it’s reversed for some folks, but not enough.

Frankly I think it’s as simple as that. He didn’t put run the bear. He out ran Hillary.

Where we disagree is on the time. A long drawn out “investigation” has its own negative consequences. What is the point of the investigation if not to impeach Trump? What is the point of impeaching him in the last year of his Presidency? This is an emergent matter.

Mueller’s foot dragging is itself putting the lie to the investigation.

[Cog]

This investigation has been going on longer than a year. Comey started it officially back in July 2016. So we are close to two years and not one bit of information has came forward that Trump colluded with the Russians to affect the election. Zero. Time to wrap it up, unless you are a Democrat who wants to bludgeon Trump with Russian collusion for the mid-terms in November. Which is precisely what is going on here.

[Newfie]

Just now saw this on USA Today.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/ ... /35271445/

[Cog]

By the time this is over, Democrats will be begging Mueller to end this investigation. The passage of time has pointed the finger right back at the Democrats for creating this entire fiasco. The FISA warrant, based on a Democrat paid for dossier and a desire both in the DOJ and FBI to have an insurance policy in the event Trump won, has taken us to this exact point. Fortunately for Trump, he won and now has access to all the information that the Democrats so desperately did not want to see the light of day.

[Plantagenet]

In one of Peter Strozk's text messages boasting to his DOJ lover about his participation in the anti Trump spying cabal in its early days in 2016 he wrote: "White House is running this..."

The FBI has redacted much of the rest of the message. We'll get to see the rest eventually, but for now the message is clear enough.

The Obama White House was running a spy ring against the Rs, made up of Obama appointees and extremist Ds in the intelligence services.

We already know Susan Rice and other high level Obama appointees in the white house were unmasking the wiretaps at the Trump tower to spy on the Trump Campaign, so its clear the White House Ds were fully aware of the spy campaign. But the new text suggest the whole spy campaign was "run by the White House" from the very beginning.

This is another Watergate-style scandal with one party spying on the other, but its actually worse then watergate because the Ds actually succeeded. instead of Nixon's failed effort to spy on the Ds we're in the middle of unmasking the Obama administration's very very successful effort to spy on the Rs. We already know the Obama administration subverted the IRS by allowing a small group of high level Ds in the IRS to target the Rs....who can be surprised that the Obama administration did the exact same thing with the intelligence services.....Ds in the Obama White House facilitated a small group of his own appointees and other high level Ds to start up a crazy scheme to spy on the Rs. And they almost got away with it.


Trump has started to call the D spying "SPYGATE."

Cheers!

[dissident]

All those years of cold war conditioning regarding "Russia" (actually the USSR) means that any sort of ludicrous claim can be legitimized by tacking on "Russians". So some people in this thread are pre-emptively hoodwinked that the FBI was spying on Russians and not Trump. The phony FISA is enough evidence that there was not even enough evidence to start any such investigation. Trying to twist the facts into some "FBI was doing its job" BS is pathetic. The original Watergate scandal that brought down Nixon is irrelevant Mickey Mouse nothing compared to Obama's and Hillary's brazen abuse of state power for petty political aims. Life must be grand in all those 3rd and 2nd world toilets where this is the norm, if you think that the FBI was doing its job.

[Plantagenet]

After first admitting that the FBI and CIA were spying on Trump, Obama's Director of National Intelligence James Clapper is now frantically trying to backtrack. The CIA and FBI weren't spying on Trump, he now claims....it was just benign information gathering.

clapper-fbi-wasnt-spying-trump-it-was-benign-information-gathering

Clapper must be a complete idiot. Does he really expect people to believe that when an FBI or CIA agent infiltrates a group he isn't spying but instead is involved in "benign information gathering."

SHEEESH!


We already know Clapper is liar...now it appears he is an idiot as well.

[Plantagenet]

Trump keeps saying that Spygate is unprecedented. But LBJ ordered the FBI to wiretap and spy on the Rs in 1964.

the-fbi-spied-for-lbjs-campaign

Maybe this is just something the Ds do. Maybe that why the press doesn't care. It seems like the press is saying that Obama is a D so its OK for him to order the FBI and CIA to spy on Rs, just like it was OK for him to spy on foreign government leaders, even tapping their personal cell phones.


I guess its OK for Obama to spy because he's a D

Cheers!

[Newfie]

LBJ had the goods on Nixon. It was during the end of the 68 campaign and he got info that tied Nixon to undermining US peace policy with VietNam. But LBJ decided to not leak or otherwise expose Nixon. He didn’t want to taint the campaign in that way. He didn’t want Nixon to come into office under threat of indictment.

LBJ was a complicated man and seems to have had more confidence in Nixon than Humphrey. So I’m sure that played into it also.

In the end the info leaked out and his efforts to squash it ended Nixon’s presidency.

Not a whole lot to admire in many of our Presidents.