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CoViD Recession Doom Loop

Discussions about the economic and financial ramifications of PEAK OIL

Re: CoViD Recession Doom Loop

Unread postby Ibon » Tue 24 Mar 2020, 22:34:25

I think I have made it clear my views on Trump but his instincts on this may not be that far off. We may have to just live with the unruly nature of 7 billion humans not tolerating extended lock down and then getting restless.

I am not understanding the outrage of a situation that is beyond our control where we get back to normal and accept the presence of a virus that may kill a few percentage of mostly older and sick folks. I would say 99% of our species history lived exactly with similar uncertainties around disease. What's the big deal?

It is assumed that managing this pandemic is within our control. I am not so sure of that.
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Re: CoViD Recession Doom Loop

Unread postby Cog » Tue 24 Mar 2020, 22:56:13

GHung wrote:The cure worse than the disease? It's not a freakin cure. What it is is people have decided it's ok to throw Grandpa and Granny out the back of the bus to save an economy that's going down anyway and was never worthy of being saved. Cowards.

Until now I was absolutely clueless as to how far we have fallen.


Your hatred of American capitalism is noted.
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Re: CoViD Recession Doom Loop

Unread postby JuanP » Tue 24 Mar 2020, 23:16:37

Cog wrote:Dumb and dumber should be restricted to their own thread to discuss their CIA virus delusions.

Your brilliance is so blinding I can't see! ROFLMFAO! Dumbfuck! You are dumber than the vast majority of the people here, fool!
You insulted me first, so I am insulting you back, retard. My insulting policy is very simple. I never insult someone who hasn't insulted me first, and I always insult others three times for every time I get insulted, retard! You are a pathetic loser! Why don't you argue the points and prove me wrong if you are so smart, moron! There, you insulted me twice and I insulted you six times. Did you win anything? Does it make you feel better?
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Re: CoViD Recession Doom Loop

Unread postby JuanP » Tue 24 Mar 2020, 23:20:04

Cog wrote:
GHung wrote:The cure worse than the disease? It's not a freakin cure. What it is is people have decided it's ok to throw Grandpa and Granny out the back of the bus to save an economy that's going down anyway and was never worthy of being saved. Cowards.

Until now I was absolutely clueless as to how far we have fallen.


Your hatred of American capitalism is noted.


American capitalism deserves to be hated! It is an extremely selfish and stupid economic system based on the rich abusing the poor and the strong abusing the weak. I am really enjoying watching the American economy blow up right now.
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Re: CoViD Recession Doom Loop

Unread postby Armageddon » Tue 24 Mar 2020, 23:32:20

JuanP wrote:
Cog wrote:
GHung wrote:The cure worse than the disease? It's not a freakin cure. What it is is people have decided it's ok to throw Grandpa and Granny out the back of the bus to save an economy that's going down anyway and was never worthy of being saved. Cowards.

Until now I was absolutely clueless as to how far we have fallen.


Your hatred of American capitalism is noted.


American capitalism deserves to be hated! It is an extremely selfish and stupid economic system based on the rich abusing the poor and the strong abusing the weak. I am really enjoying watching the American economy blow up right now.




Without capitalism, there’s no incentive for innovations. All great inventions have come under capitalism. It doesn’t come without its faults, but the pros far outweigh the cons.
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Re: CoViD Recession Doom Loop

Unread postby JuanP » Wed 25 Mar 2020, 00:08:48

Armageddon wrote:
JuanP wrote:
Cog wrote:
GHung wrote:The cure worse than the disease? It's not a freakin cure. What it is is people have decided it's ok to throw Grandpa and Granny out the back of the bus to save an economy that's going down anyway and was never worthy of being saved. Cowards.

Until now I was absolutely clueless as to how far we have fallen.


Your hatred of American capitalism is noted.


American capitalism deserves to be hated! It is an extremely selfish and stupid economic system based on the rich abusing the poor and the strong abusing the weak. I am really enjoying watching the American economy blow up right now.


Without capitalism, there’s no incentive for innovations. All great inventions have come under capitalism. It doesn’t come without its faults, but the pros far outweigh the cons.


There is a huge number of inventions that were not created under capitalism, for example the wheel; capitalism didn't even exist when it was created, so I am 100% certain that not ALL great inventions have come under capitalism. Maybe you should qualify your claim. You see, if you had said MANY or MOST, your claim would have been much harder to disprove. I have learnt to be very, very careful when using words like all, never, none, forever, etc.

I particularly like the pro of destroying the only biosphere we have to live in in a very fast and efficient way! LOL!
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Re: CoViD Recession Doom Loop

Unread postby Armageddon » Wed 25 Mar 2020, 00:13:27

I should have worded all great ‘modern’ inventions have come under capitalism. Didn’t realize you were going back as far as the wheel to disprove me lol.

I’m sure there’s plenty of inventions under socialism, but I still see capitalism as having far more incentives
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Re: CoViD Recession Doom Loop

Unread postby Armageddon » Wed 25 Mar 2020, 00:22:46

iPhones, internet, central air conditioning, flat-screen TVs, and indoor plumbing, few in the developed world would want to go back to life 100, 30, or even 10 years ago. Indeed, around the world, the last two centuries have brought vast improvements in material living standards; billions of people have been lifted from poverty, and life expectancy across income levels has broadly risen. Most of that progress came from capitalist economies.
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Re: CoViD Recession Doom Loop

Unread postby JuanP » Wed 25 Mar 2020, 00:34:42

Armageddon wrote:I should have worded all great ‘modern’ inventions have come under capitalism. Didn’t realize you were going back as far as the wheel to disprove me lol.

I’m sure there’s plenty of inventions under socialism, but I still see capitalism as having far more incentives


Then you should have said MANY or MOST great modern inventions, not ALL. I am just reading what you wrote. Because I was trained in logic the word ALL sets off alarm bells in my mind by default; it is a dangerous word to use. You are entitled to your belief that capitalism has far more incentives, and I won't dispute it since you are stating that this is how you see it, not how it is. By the way, I don't necessarily disagree with that point of view. I just don't see technological innovations as being necessarily good, per se, since they allowed us to grow our population to our current numbers, consume resources and create pollution at the scale we do, and do the horrible and irreversible damage we've done to our biosphere.
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Re: CoViD Recession Doom Loop

Unread postby FuelShortageComing » Wed 25 Mar 2020, 00:38:14

Capitalism only works when there is abundant natural resources to transform. We are passed this point.

Capitalism only works if there is enough intelligent and creative people. We are passed this point also. Whites, South Korean and Japaneses all suffer from low birth rate and low population number. Brown shit skins are too stupid to build anything. They act more like parasite and take over functioning society or join them once some else has build one.

There will never be another modern society after this one collapse.
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Re: CoViD Recession Doom Loop

Unread postby Armageddon » Wed 25 Mar 2020, 00:45:35

FuelShortageComing wrote:Capitalism only works when there is abundant natural resources to transform. We are passed this point.

Capitalism only works if there is enough intelligent and creative people. We are passed this point also. Whites, South Korean and Japaneses all suffer from low birth rate and low population number. Brown shit skins are too stupid to build anything. They act more like parasite and take over functioning society or join them once some else has build one.

There will never be another modern society after this one collapse.




I can agree with that
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Re: CoViD Recession Doom Loop

Unread postby Armageddon » Wed 25 Mar 2020, 00:47:39

JuanP wrote:
Armageddon wrote:I should have worded all great ‘modern’ inventions have come under capitalism. Didn’t realize you were going back as far as the wheel to disprove me lol.

I’m sure there’s plenty of inventions under socialism, but I still see capitalism as having far more incentives


Then you should have said MANY or MOST great modern inventions, not ALL. I am just reading what you wrote. Because I was trained in logic the word ALL sets off alarm bells in my mind by default; it is a dangerous word to use. You are entitled to your belief that capitalism has far more incentives, and I won't dispute it since you are stating that this is how you see it, not how it is. By the way, I don't necessarily disagree with that point of view. I just don't see technological innovations as being necessarily good, per se, since they allowed us to grow our population to our current numbers, consume resources and create pollution at the scale we do, and do the horrible and irreversible damage we've done to our biosphere.




That’s a fair point
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Re: CoViD Recession Doom Loop

Unread postby FuelShortageComing » Wed 25 Mar 2020, 01:02:44

Supply chain is shutting down. Here in Montreal they have installed in front of cashiers (gas stations and grocery stores) a big plastic sheet. One grocery store has also installed sinks at the entrance where people can wash their hands. It will become more and more difficult to find people willing to work as cashiers, nurses and so on.

https://www.reuters.com/article/health- ... SR1N2A902A

Italy's petrol stations will start to close on Wednesday night - operators


MILAN, March 24 (Reuters) - Italy’s petrol stations will start to close down because of the coronavirus epidemic, with pumps on the countries motorway network shutting as of Wednesday evening, the sector’s operators said.

Other pump stations will then gradually close down elsewhere, operator associations Faib Confesercenti, Fegica Cisl and Figisc/Anisa Confcommercio said in a statement.

The operators said it had become impossible to guarantee health safety standards and keep businesses going.
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Re: CoViD Recession Doom Loop

Unread postby Cog » Wed 25 Mar 2020, 08:14:59

JuanP wrote:
Cog wrote:Dumb and dumber should be restricted to their own thread to discuss their CIA virus delusions.

Your brilliance is so blinding I can't see! ROFLMFAO! Dumbfuck! You are dumber than the vast majority of the people here, fool!
You insulted me first, so I am insulting you back, retard. My insulting policy is very simple. I never insult someone who hasn't insulted me first, and I always insult others three times for every time I get insulted, retard! You are a pathetic loser! Why don't you argue the points and prove me wrong if you are so smart, moron! There, you insulted me twice and I insulted you six times. Did you win anything? Does it make you feel better?


I give you credit for claiming title of the dumber instead of the dumb part of the twins. But since you both claimed that this flu was engineering by the CIA and have not provided a scintilla of proof, then at the very least you are a troll. Using Occam razor the most logical conclusion is that this virus originated in China, as most of them do, the CCP panicked and tried to hide it from the world. Doesn't mean the CCP engineered the virus but SARS did escape Chinese labs years ago due to sheer incompetence. This is just more of the same. The Chinese are experts at stealing technology, violating patents, and otherwise engage in industrial espionage but they are simply blundering about for the most part.
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Re: CoViD Recession Doom Loop

Unread postby JuanP » Wed 25 Mar 2020, 08:44:06

Cog wrote:
JuanP wrote:
Cog wrote:Dumb and dumber should be restricted to their own thread to discuss their CIA virus delusions.

Your brilliance is so blinding I can't see! ROFLMFAO! Dumbfuck! You are dumber than the vast majority of the people here, fool!
You insulted me first, so I am insulting you back, retard. My insulting policy is very simple. I never insult someone who hasn't insulted me first, and I always insult others three times for every time I get insulted, retard! You are a pathetic loser! Why don't you argue the points and prove me wrong if you are so smart, moron! There, you insulted me twice and I insulted you six times. Did you win anything? Does it make you feel better?


I give you credit for claiming title of the dumber instead of the dumb part of the twins. But since you both claimed that this flu was engineering by the CIA and have not provided a scintilla of proof, then at the very least you are a troll. Using Occam razor the most logical conclusion is that this virus originated in China, as most of them do, the CCP panicked and tried to hide it from the world. Doesn't mean the CCP engineered the virus but SARS did escape Chinese labs years ago due to sheer incompetence. This is just more of the same. The Chinese are experts at stealing technology, violating patents, and otherwise engage in industrial espionage but they are simply blundering about for the most part.


Now you are telling a lie! I HAVE NEVER SAID THAT THIS VIRUS WAS ENGINEERED, COG! Please quote me if you are going to make a claim like that. I have ALWAYS said that this virus is most likely natural. What I have also said is that it is possible that it was collected, studied, and released on purpose as a biological attack; I NEVER said that that is the case, just that it is POSSIBLE. I also said it may have been POSSIBLE that it was engineered, because I don't know that it is IMPOSSIBLE, but that I thought that was extremely unlikely because that would be traceable. Do you claim that that was IMPOSSIBLE? Apparently, there is now at least one scientific study saying the virus is probably natural, like I have ALWAYS claimed.

You fucked with the wrong person, Cog.

As far as I am concerned you are either confused or lying. If you are confused you can apologize; if you are lying, then you are a LIAR, in which case I don't give a FUCK about anything you may have to say. I didn't even bother to read past that first sentence in your comment in which you falsely accused of saying something I never said.

You have 3 choices, Cog.

First, find a quote were I said what you claim I did, post it here, and prove me wrong, in which case I will admit that I made a mistake, you were correct, I will apologize for the misunderstanding, and we move forward.

Second, admit that you falsely accused me of saying things I didn't and apologize, in which case I will forgive you, tell you it's no big deal, and we move forward.

Or, third you will have proved to be an unrepentant liar for everyone to see, in which case nothing you have ever said or ever will say here will mean shit to any honest, open minded, decent person.

Your choice, Cog. I am kind of curious to find out what kind of man you are. Are you smart enough to prove me wrong? Are you humble enough to admit that you made a mistake? Are you an arrogant American asshole who lies without any regard for the truth, and can't even admit a mistake? Which is it?
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Re: CoViD Recession Doom Loop

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Wed 25 Mar 2020, 10:07:58

Using Occam razor the most logical conclusion is that this virus originated in China, as most of them do, the CCP panicked and tried to hide it from the world. Doesn't mean the CCP engineered the virus but SARS did escape Chinese labs years ago due to sheer incompetence. This is just more of the same. The Chinese are experts at stealing technology, violating patents, and otherwise engage in industrial espionage but they are simply blundering about for the most part.


The only places that are suggesting the virus did not originate in the wet market in Wuhan are conspiracy sites and basic whackos....many of which/who are the go-to experts for some of the bozos on this site I'm afraid. I did spend a fair bit of time working with CNPC as a partner company years ago and as a consequence traveled on numerous occasions to visit them as well as their research arm back then RIPED in Bejing and nearby centers. What was very obvious is culturally it is a country of extreme contrasts. The companies were embracing technology like nobodies business. In some cases (wireline logging and drilling were ones I saw) that was all to do with stealing patented tech from the west and making it their own, in some cases improving it. But it is an extremely old culture and many people even within the poorer parts of Beijing did not have access (or want access) to a lot of the tech, being completely happy to live the way they always had. For many people this is going to the market to buy live animals and have them butchered in order to guaranty they are fresh rather than going to a supermarket where they can buy food that has been prepared safely. A local apothecary is generally the first place someone goes for health issues rather than a western-style doctor. Part of this is cost but also part of it is culture. I remember seeing an older gentleman peddling a bike in Bejing that had a cart behind it loaded up with sticks that he would no doubt sell to people who still cooked outside on open fire pits (the pollution there isn't just from cars and busses). He was dressed in the standard Mao costume, sandals and busy peddling along while talking on a cell phone. To my mind, that described the competing stresses in China with the need to adopt technology but the desire to maintain the old ways. Unless China can join the first world with regards to food preparation and health requirements (along with proper enforcement) we will see diseases like Covid pop up every few years.
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Re: CoViD Recession Doom Loop

Unread postby Cog » Wed 25 Mar 2020, 10:15:53

Bottom line is no matter how this Chinese virus started, the Chinese Communist Party tried to hide it. They allowed their citizens to flood air flights around the world and brought pain and misery to many. After this is over, China and the CCP must be made to pay a price for their incompetence and secretiveness. I'm not recommending opening up canned sunshine on their ass but it wouldn't bother me.

In before Dumb and Dumber come in to defend communism at all cost. Its all so predictable with them.
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Re: CoViD Recession Doom Loop

Unread postby JuanP » Wed 25 Mar 2020, 10:34:58

Well, Cog, since you have not replied to my questions, you have proven to be an arrogant, unrepentant liar. Good to know!
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Re: CoViD Recession Doom Loop

Unread postby Cog » Wed 25 Mar 2020, 11:05:36

JuanP wrote:Well, Cog, since you have not replied to my questions, you have proven to be an arrogant, unrepentant liar. Good to know!



Arrogant yes I am. But I'm not the one preaching the CIA virus. Its up to you to prove this contention. As Carl Sagan said "Extraordinary Claims, require extraordinary evidence". You and your Dumb twin have provided none of this. All you do admit to is a hatred of American and capitalism. I'm glad you are honest about that at least.

Enjoy your worship of communism. May it do you much good.
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Re: CoViD Recession Doom Loop

Unread postby JuanP » Wed 25 Mar 2020, 11:09:31

Cog wrote:
JuanP wrote:Well, Cog, since you have not replied to my questions, you have proven to be an arrogant, unrepentant liar. Good to know!



Arrogant yes I am. But I'm not the one preaching the CIA virus. Its up to you to prove this contention. As Carl Sagan said "Extraordinary Claims, require extraordinary evidence". You and your Dumb twin have provided none of this. All you do admit to is a hatred of American and capitalism. I'm glad you are honest about that at least.

Enjoy your worship of communism. May it do you much good.


Obviously, he is a liar living in denial, too!
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