Donate Bitcoin

Donate Paypal


PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

Countdown To Impeachment Pt. 2

A forum for discussion of regional topics including oil depletion but also government, society, and the future.

Re: Countdown To Impeachment Pt. 2

Unread postby careinke » Thu 12 Dec 2019, 19:30:23

jedrider wrote:
Newfie wrote:JD,

Just because I don’t vote doesn’t mean i don’t care. I care a great deal.

The problem is there is no one competent to vote for. It really doesn’t matter much if you vote D or R. They are all in the same pockets.


My opinion is that you show up and you vote in the most useless fashion, third party or write-in, but you show up and be counted as something or else, tacitly, you are giving up your vote. I always vote Green Party, but I know it makes no difference, but I'm counted at least. It shows I care, but that's about it. If you don't show up, it means you don't care and you tacitly accept whatever everyone else has decided. Yes, I know, it's not easy to get oneself to do such a useless mostly symbolic gesture, but it means that the voting apparatus is in place and can be used to threaten our politicians to behave as if we make a difference.


I still get counted as voting, I just didn't pick a president because I believed none were competent. Plenty of other stuff I voted for like no on various taxes.

I may vote for Trump this year, he has kept a lot of his campaign promises and the Dims have really pissed me off with their spying and s#it.
Cliff (Start a rEVOLution, grow a garden)
User avatar
careinke
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 3741
Joined: Mon 01 Jan 2007, 03:00:00
Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: Countdown To Impeachment Pt. 2

Unread postby asg70 » Fri 13 Dec 2019, 14:04:23

I know I'm pissing into the wind but here is a little much-needed perspective on the stakes.

HALL OF SHAME:
-Short welched on a bet and should be shunned.
-Frequent-flyers should not cry crocodile-tears over climate-change.
asg70
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 3160
Joined: Sun 05 Feb 2017, 13:17:28

Re: Countdown To Impeachment Pt. 2

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Fri 13 Dec 2019, 15:08:48

asg70 wrote:I know I'm pissing into the wind but here is a little much-needed perspective on the stakes.

I was surprised to recently run (accidentally) into a Robert Reich (secretary of labor to Clinton, author, economist) opinion piece on some business news .com site that in order not to have Trump elected again, the dems need to choose a far left candidate for POTUS.

I thought this was interesting, since, to me, choosing such a candidate (Sanders and Warren were given as examples in his piece) would help Trump, as it would cause a lot of moderate voters (like me) not to vote dem.

I've always respected Reich for his economics, not so much for his politics. He tends to be WAY left, and I suspect part of his suggestion is simply an excuse to publicize support for what he wants.

But I'm guessing, the way things go, I'll end up voting for some third party candidate again, being unable to support the choice of either side -- unless the dems can find some sanity and nominate someone who is at least more or less moderate.

It will be interesting to see if getting rid of Trump is really job one for them, or pushing a more and more far left agenda is.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
User avatar
Outcast_Searcher
COB
COB
 
Posts: 7576
Joined: Sat 27 Jun 2009, 20:26:42

Re: Countdown To Impeachment Pt. 2

Unread postby Newfie » Fri 13 Dec 2019, 15:16:43

I agree (or used to) with some of Wrights ideas but to my mind he has spun way too far left but also doesn’t seem to understand the basic falling of perpetual growth. In short he is a traditional economist with a far left leaning. Just the kind who would support the Green New Deal as a social program.
User avatar
Newfie
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 13558
Joined: Thu 15 Nov 2007, 03:00:00
Location: Between Canada and Carribean

Re: Countdown To Impeachment Pt. 2

Unread postby Plantagenet » Fri 13 Dec 2019, 16:29:07

Outcast_Searcher wrote:I was surprised to recently run (accidentally) into a Robert Reich (secretary of labor to Clinton, author, economist) opinion piece on some business news .com site that in order not to have Trump elected again, the dems need to choose a far left candidate for POTUS.

I thought this was interesting, since, to me, choosing such a candidate (Sanders and Warren were given as examples in his piece) would help Trump, as it would cause a lot of moderate voters (like me) not to vote dem.


Exactly right. +1

We've got a real-life example of that in the election in the UK. Labor chose a far left leader, and the British people massively voted against the far left. Even the "red wall"....districts that had always voted for labor.....for the first time went for the conservatives.

Ds should pay attention to the UK election. The Ds would have a much better chance of beating Trump with a centrist Presidential candidate then one of the far-left types.

Cheers!
"Our house is on fire" Greta Thunberg, 12/28/19

"The people in power should listen.....its them I'm criticizing" Greta Thunberg, 12/4/19
User avatar
Plantagenet
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 23011
Joined: Mon 09 Apr 2007, 02:00:00
Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).

Re: Countdown To Impeachment Pt. 2

Unread postby Newfie » Sun 15 Dec 2019, 15:19:38

Interesting article from the Hill saying a bunch of R Senators are not fond of Trump and he is at more risk than he knows. Maybe that’s why McConnel wants to get it done quick.

https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house ... nate-trial
User avatar
Newfie
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 13558
Joined: Thu 15 Nov 2007, 03:00:00
Location: Between Canada and Carribean

Re: Countdown To Impeachment Pt. 2

Unread postby Cog » Sun 15 Dec 2019, 18:18:28

Newfie wrote:Interesting article from the Hill saying a bunch of R Senators are not fond of Trump and he is at more risk than he knows. Maybe that’s why McConnel wants to get it done quick.

https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house ... nate-trial


Read the article and its BS. Trump's true base is also the true base of these Republican Senators up for re-election. I estimate that hard core base at around 30% of all Republican voters. That particular base will never abandon Trump. They also will not forgive nor forget a Republican Senator who votes to convict. You can't lose 30% of the voters and beat a Democrat challenger. Now perhaps you might have a Romney or Murkowski jump ship but twenty of them? No way.
User avatar
Cog
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 13036
Joined: Sat 17 May 2008, 02:00:00
Location: Northern Kekistan

Re: Countdown To Impeachment Pt. 2

Unread postby jedrider » Sun 15 Dec 2019, 21:52:20

Well, whether the impeachment succeeds or not, it had to be done.

I don't think Trump will get re-elected (because some voters now realize their mistake).

However, Trump does appear to be all the Republicans got now unless they do an about face and impeach.

According to this article, Trump has to be confronted with an as 'unmovable' an opponent as he is himself:

How to take down Trump as cult leader
https://www.rawstory.com/2019/12/how-to-take-down-a-cult-leader/

The only unflappable Democratic candidate I know about is Tulsi Gabbard who, at least, speaks in English, not gutter talk, and keeps her composure doing so.
User avatar
jedrider
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1628
Joined: Thu 28 May 2009, 09:10:44

Re: Countdown To Impeachment Pt. 2

Unread postby Cog » Mon 16 Dec 2019, 02:55:08

Democrats here should learn something from the recent elections in the UK. They won't of course and next November will show that.
User avatar
Cog
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 13036
Joined: Sat 17 May 2008, 02:00:00
Location: Northern Kekistan

Re: Countdown To Impeachment Pt. 2

Unread postby dissident » Mon 16 Dec 2019, 09:39:20

Cog wrote:Democrats here should learn something from the recent elections in the UK. They won't of course and next November will show that.


They will just double down on insulting all those that do not conform to their narrow, freak show agenda. Just like the lunatic Labour candidates in the UK. Because nothing helps you win elections like smearing the voters.
dissident
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 5670
Joined: Sat 08 Apr 2006, 02:00:00

Re: Countdown To Impeachment Pt. 2

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 16 Dec 2019, 14:25:52

jedrider wrote:Well, whether the impeachment succeeds or not, it had to be done.


No it didn't.

jedrider wrote:I don't think Trump will get re-elected .


I agree with you that Trump isn't likely to get re-elected, if the Ds can settle on a good candidate.

jedrider wrote:
According to this article, Trump has to be confronted with an as 'unmovable' an opponent as he is himself


The Ds already tried that with Hillary, and it didn't work.

jedrider wrote:The only unflappable Democratic candidate I know about is Tulsi Gabbard who, at least, speaks in English, not gutter talk, and keeps her composure doing so.


Yes, I agree. However, unfortunately the Ds mostly hate Tulsi. SHe's been accused of being a Russian agent by Hillary and then by Kamala during a live TV debate......and none of the other Ds on the debate stage spoke up to defend Tulsi from this outrageous lie It was a bad moment for the D party, I thought, that one of their candidates could be smeared during a debate and none of the other candidates stood up to protest. AND now the DNC is cheating to keep her out of the next debate by changing their rules and not counting polls where she does well.

I don't think Tulsi will be the D presidential nominee. Darn!

Image
D leaders are smearing Tulsi by claiming she is a Russian agent......and your average D believes this kind of malarky.

CHEERS!
"Our house is on fire" Greta Thunberg, 12/28/19

"The people in power should listen.....its them I'm criticizing" Greta Thunberg, 12/4/19
User avatar
Plantagenet
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 23011
Joined: Mon 09 Apr 2007, 02:00:00
Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).

Re: Countdown To Impeachment Pt. 2

Unread postby Newfie » Mon 16 Dec 2019, 14:34:01

JD,

I don’t think anyone needs to admit a mistake. They made a selection between the two offered candidates. They picked the least of two evils.

The D’s need to come up with a more palatable candidate than Trump, that is all. The lesser evil.
User avatar
Newfie
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 13558
Joined: Thu 15 Nov 2007, 03:00:00
Location: Between Canada and Carribean

Re: Countdown To Impeachment Pt. 2

Unread postby careinke » Tue 17 Dec 2019, 02:12:23

Barring an economic collapse, Trump will win even more of the electorate votes than last time.

It would be fun to run a poll asking who you believe will win in 2020. Not necessarily who you plan to vote for, but who you think will win. Then as the Dems drop out, reissue the pole again with an updated list.
Cliff (Start a rEVOLution, grow a garden)
User avatar
careinke
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 3741
Joined: Mon 01 Jan 2007, 03:00:00
Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: Countdown To Impeachment Pt. 2

Unread postby Plantagenet » Tue 17 Dec 2019, 03:02:07

The US Supreme Court just killed one of the impeachment charges against Trump

supreme-court-ruling-pulls-rug-out-from-under-article-of-impeachment

One of the articles of impeachment charges Trump with obstruction of Congress for not immediately complying with congressional subpoenas. Trump has claimed executive privilege, and said the courts must decide. Now the Supreme Court has agree to hear the appeals case on whether or not Trump has to comply with the house subpoenas. .

By accepting the case, the SCOTUS confirms that Trump is right and there is a valid legal question here that the court needs to decide, and that means the impeachment charge that Trump has obstructed Congress is totally bogus. Trump was right when he said the courts should decide, and now the SCOTUS has actually indicated it will decide, just as Trump has requested.

That leaves the Ds looking like partisan hacks and fools, which is entirely appropriate in this case.

CHEERS!
"Our house is on fire" Greta Thunberg, 12/28/19

"The people in power should listen.....its them I'm criticizing" Greta Thunberg, 12/4/19
User avatar
Plantagenet
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 23011
Joined: Mon 09 Apr 2007, 02:00:00
Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).

Re: Countdown To Impeachment Pt. 2

Unread postby Newfie » Tue 17 Dec 2019, 05:49:32

I doubt that this will make a ripple, at least at this time.

I can see the Senate dismissing that article based upon the SCOTUS decision to hear the case.

Not that it would happen but......suppose the Senate DID vote to uphold that article and removed the President and shortly thereafter the SCOTUS passed a ruling favorable to the President? Would he be reinstated? I think not.

If I heard Cog’s reading of the constitution correctly Congress can impeach for just about anything; “high crimes and MISDEMEANORS” is a broad net.

Fun to consider though.
User avatar
Newfie
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 13558
Joined: Thu 15 Nov 2007, 03:00:00
Location: Between Canada and Carribean

Re: Countdown To Impeachment Pt. 2

Unread postby Cog » Tue 17 Dec 2019, 07:48:08

Bribery or extortion are actual federal crimes but the House did not charge the president with either one. Instead they charged Trump with two charges which are not crimes at all. Such is the weakness of this particular impeachment.
User avatar
Cog
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 13036
Joined: Sat 17 May 2008, 02:00:00
Location: Northern Kekistan

Re: Countdown To Impeachment Pt. 2

Unread postby evilgenius » Wed 18 Dec 2019, 14:52:58

Cog wrote:
Newfie wrote:Interesting article from the Hill saying a bunch of R Senators are not fond of Trump and he is at more risk than he knows. Maybe that’s why McConnel wants to get it done quick.

https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house ... nate-trial


Read the article and its BS. Trump's true base is also the true base of these Republican Senators up for re-election. I estimate that hard core base at around 30% of all Republican voters. That particular base will never abandon Trump. They also will not forgive nor forget a Republican Senator who votes to convict. You can't lose 30% of the voters and beat a Democrat challenger. Now perhaps you might have a Romney or Murkowski jump ship but twenty of them? No way.

There's a good idea, I know I'm putting words in your mouth, but the Democrats ought to see if they can get Romney to change parties, in order to defeat Trump. He'd be a shoe in. He also has the gravitas of having opposed Trump very publicly on grounds of having disgust for Trump's tactics. Because, as it stands now, we'll soon see a set of primaries where we get to choose from the old clown and the young clown.

Party politics aside, there is a greater issue at stake here, than whether the president bargained for blackmarking his likely opponent. There is this little thing about how we have fought the last few wars with some degree of strategic interest in mind. To mess with the state of the Ukraine's ability to protect itself, flies in the face of the objective of all those recent wars. We are obviously contending with Russia, over the future story of oil which could take place if the Middle East and Russia become the fallback source of oil, when the peak actually does squeeze supply down. The people who have put this plan into place are not the kind that think only five years out. They are the kind who can see far enough down the road to see that it would go very badly for the US, if a large enough block within the final numbers were conjoined with the Russians. Trump doesn't seem either willing, or concerned enough, to see it. And, of course, speaking about it openly would be a disaster for the congress person attempting to mention it. There just isn't any way to foresee if something politically negative comes of it.
User avatar
evilgenius
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 2728
Joined: Tue 06 Dec 2005, 03:00:00
Location: Stopped at the border.

Re: Countdown To Impeachment Pt. 2

Unread postby Plantagenet » Wed 18 Dec 2019, 20:36:18

Nancy Pelosi has instructed the Ds to say they were "sad" that they were impeaching Trump, so we have the farce of hyper-partisan D Congressmen voting to impeach Trump as they put on long faces and pretend they are "sad' they are doing it.

What a bunch of BS.

The Ds have collected their scalp.

Now they are dancing around it in a great barbaric yelp.

Image
The Indian Scalp Dance (1874)
"Our house is on fire" Greta Thunberg, 12/28/19

"The people in power should listen.....its them I'm criticizing" Greta Thunberg, 12/4/19
User avatar
Plantagenet
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 23011
Joined: Mon 09 Apr 2007, 02:00:00
Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).

Re: Countdown To Impeachment Pt. 2

Unread postby dissident » Wed 18 Dec 2019, 22:15:36

Cog wrote:Bribery or extortion are actual federal crimes but the House did not charge the president with either one. Instead they charged Trump with two charges which are not crimes at all. Such is the weakness of this particular impeachment.


Basically a kangaroo court. Being charged is the proof of the charges.

The lack of distinction between procedural "crimes" and real crimes is one of the biggest fails of the British derived (and European in general) jurisprudence which the US follows. Starting some investigation based on false pretexts and using BS like "not quick enough to remove underwear for inspection with metal rod" is not any sort of proof a crime. The crime is the abuse of power by the kangaroo investigators. People complain about entrapment when some drug dealer is caught selling drugs. That is simply not in the same category as the BS that Trump is being subjected to. No exposure of wrong doing has occurred whatsoever.
dissident
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 5670
Joined: Sat 08 Apr 2006, 02:00:00

Re: Countdown To Impeachment Pt. 2

Unread postby jedrider » Thu 19 Dec 2019, 08:52:00

I don't see the big deal in all this. Let the senate acquit, i don't care. Only a few hysterical Dem's care, not most politicians. The jury will NOT be told they must strictly follow the rule of law.
User avatar
jedrider
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1628
Joined: Thu 28 May 2009, 09:10:44

PreviousNext

Return to North America Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests