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Countdown To Impeachment Pt. 2

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Re: Countdown To Impeachment Pt. 2

Unread postby Newfie » Sat 07 Dec 2019, 15:50:41

jedrider wrote:
Newfie wrote: This once speech however shines a spotlight on his naked corruption.


Hey, did I get the attribution right this time?

That's a nice way of glossing over Trump's overt corruption.

By that token, we're all corrupt. We buy cheap clothing furnished by Asian factories run in slave-like conditions.

Conservatives are always willing to invoke the 'slippery slope' hypothesis when it suits them, but not otherwise.

Yeah, climate change is irrelevant at this point. Still, the conservative denial of all facts doesn't even compare to the liberal's denial of inconvenient facts
-- as Al Gore has correctly pointed out, although he was assuming it was inconvenient mostly to the other side of the aisle, but forgot to look in the mirror.



JD,

I disagree. It’s true that Trumps corruption is more overt, it’s in your face. But they are of similar basic character.

I kind of hear your argument like this: it’s better to be rapped by an Ivy League scholar than a red neck.

But it’s OK for us to disagree, we are already entitled to our perfect opinions. LOL!
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Re: Countdown To Impeachment Pt. 2

Unread postby jedrider » Sat 07 Dec 2019, 16:06:20

Newfie wrote:we are already entitled to our perfect opinions


I don't believe we are entitled to anything, but it's what we get away with :-)

[Edit: And Trump is anything but a redneck. That is his audience but it also includes people that think like him and ivory league scholars that let him get away with his behavior as President.]
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Re: Countdown To Impeachment Pt. 2

Unread postby Cog » Mon 09 Dec 2019, 09:08:00

The Horowitz IG report will be published today. I don't think the Dems, the FBI, the CIA, and other assorted deep state players are going to like it much. It will reveal how Obama's government spied on an opposing parties campaign and attempted to do a coup on a duly elected president.

There will be prosecutions from this report but it won't be on the Orange Man.

Enjoy.
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Re: Countdown To Impeachment Pt. 2

Unread postby Newfie » Mon 09 Dec 2019, 10:35:20

First I saw a lot of hype. More recently there has been down playing.

Reminds me of the Mueller report.

I will be very interested in what it actually says.

And the following report also.
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Re: Countdown To Impeachment Pt. 2

Unread postby dissident » Mon 09 Dec 2019, 10:38:25

It is really shocking to see people engage in extreme muddled thinking thanks to their extremist political positions. Even if Trump pressured the Kiev regime to chase down corruption and then use it later as a political weapon, that is not an impeachable offense and is actually the privilege of the US president. Hunter Biden is not Joe Biden and there is simply zero "persecution of Trump's political opponents". Demanding quid pro quo from foreign governments is normal practice no matter what the D. Party liars claim. Ukraine is a corrupt toilet and throwing money at in good faith is just flushing it down. So Trump and any other leader who wants to send money there needs to crack the whip and pull the leash to get something of value. None of this has any hint of a crime.

This impeachment is a show trial and it is worse than the Soviet variants since there was no pretense of due process in the latter. Here we have the D. Party pretending to apply the law when it is actually grossly abusing it. But one thing is the same and that is the fake stream media propaganda. The pro D. Party media is goose stepping better than any state run media in history.
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Re: Countdown To Impeachment Pt. 2

Unread postby asg70 » Mon 09 Dec 2019, 10:47:33

Newfie wrote:In short it was a HUGE LIE, told with a straight face to an entranced audience of news geeks. Of course Fox would not call him on this lie because he was singing their tune.


That's not my definition of "corruption". It's Obama trying to appease both sides and lead from left of center but hardly as left as the Bernie Sanders wing. He was presiding over a country that was already heavily polarized and is even more polarized now, thinking he could somehow please everyone and bring them together. He was very naive and idealistic but in retrospect was probably what the country needed to at least stave off the sort of breakdown of democracy we're experiencing now.

And seriously, we all know about Al Bartlett's right hand list, right? Obama had a serious malthusian in his cabinet with John Holdren. Obama, like any other politician, was unable to fully accept what the science has to say about limits to growth, thinking he could ease into climate legislation gradually and hope and pray for things like "clean coal". And remember that he put this on the back-burner in favor of pulling the country out of recession first, just as (not surprisingly) the people did too. We went from quite a bit of a national discussion on energy and climate to almost none at all during the recovery. Meanwhile, Climategate and Nopenhagen made banging the AGW drum a losing gamble. So it's a miracle Obama did anything at all, like the power-plant emissions and mileage regulations, soon to be rolled back and chipped away by Trump. You gotta understand that a big chunk of the electorate would like to completely abolish the EPA. For any president to do everything doomers on peakoil.com would prefer and to talk straight on doom would be instant political suicide because to address limits to growth requires first completely cratering the economy and putting millions out of work, 1-child policy, closed borders, eliminate the airline industry, force the auto industry to electrify by executive order, etc... Basically a green dictatorship which in itself might be construed as unconstitutional.

The objection I have is that when politicians don't behave the way people want it's very easy to accuse them of wrong-doing. But that's NOT corruption. It's when people hurl mud to damage a politician's reputation because you dislike them.

With Trump, even if you look beyond the fact the left hates him and his policies, the actions he and his cronies have taken ARE objectively corrupt. As for lying, he can't go more than a few hours before lying on Twitter. There is no comparison between the two. Trump's constitutional misdeeds are several orders of magnitude worse.

HALL OF SHAME:
-Short welched on a bet and should be shunned.
-Frequent-flyers should not cry crocodile-tears over climate-change.
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Re: Countdown To Impeachment Pt. 2

Unread postby Newfie » Mon 09 Dec 2019, 11:12:37

Merriam-Webster definition of corruption.

Definition of corruption
1a : dishonest or illegal behavior especially by powerful people (such as government officials or police officers) : DEPRAVITY


https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/corruption

Your Defence is very muddled at one time saying he was naive but also saying how good a politician he was.

Seems he was smart enough to make a fortune, $40 million net worth.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.busine ... rth-2018-7

Pretty slick maneuver there for someone who is “naive.”
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Re: Countdown To Impeachment Pt. 2

Unread postby asg70 » Mon 09 Dec 2019, 11:24:15

Newfie wrote:Merriam-Webster definition of corruption.


Get real. If every politician who lied were kicked out Washington it would be empty.

Newfie wrote:Seems he was smart enough to make a fortune, $40 million net worth.


I said he was naive in thinking he could fix problems rather than just paper over them. Has nothing to do with his personal ability to build a career and financial security.

Any doomer worth his salt knows that we're in a dilemma and there aren't solutions, just tradeoffs.

All I see here is you pulling a Plant and reaching for anything and everything to make Obama look bad and then attempting to build a false equivalence with Trump. I'm not saying he was perfect, only that the two are...not...equivalent. But hey, it seems like you're really invested in this and will keep digging in your heels. It's not moving the needle, though.

HALL OF SHAME:
-Short welched on a bet and should be shunned.
-Frequent-flyers should not cry crocodile-tears over climate-change.
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Re: Countdown To Impeachment Pt. 2

Unread postby Newfie » Mon 09 Dec 2019, 11:46:12

If it’s too much to expect any politician to not be a liar then what is the point in voting for them.

And what is the difference between any D and R if they are all liars, other than some tell lies you like and some don’t?
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Re: Countdown To Impeachment Pt. 2

Unread postby Newfie » Mon 09 Dec 2019, 16:35:38

Sounds like the IG report did not live up to expectations.

Sound about right?
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Re: Countdown To Impeachment Pt. 2

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 09 Dec 2019, 16:55:01

Newfie wrote:Sounds like the IG report did not live up to expectations.

Sound about right?


The media is spinning it that way. Actually the report is very critical of the FBI and the DOJ, citing numerous failures and misrepresentations in the FISA applications that started the spying on Trump.

AND, AG Barr said that Horowitz did not have the advantage of information from outside the FBI, limiting his ability to understand what was actually going on with Papadopolous and apparent FBI/CIA contacts with him before the Trump investigation officially again.

And then Durham, the special investigator who is looking into the foreign intelligence aspects of the investigation into Trump, took the unusual step of releasing his own statement about the Horowitz report. While Durham is not yet ready to release his own report, he cautioned against accepting the idea that the Horowitz report exculpated the FBI and CIA, because Durham said he has information that Horowitz didn't see.

Here is Durham's statement on the Horowitz report:

"I have the utmost respect for the mission of the Office of Inspector General and the comprehensive work that went into the report prepared by Mr. Horowitz and his staff. However, our investigation is not limited to developing information from within component parts of the Justice Department. Our investigation has included developing information from other persons and entities, both in the U.S. and outside of the U.S. Based on the evidence collected to date, and while our investigation is ongoing last month we advised the Inspector General that we do not agree with some of the report’s conclusions as to predication and how the FBI case was opened." -US Attorney John Durham

Cheers!
"Our house is on fire" Greta Thunberg, 12/28/19

"The people in power should listen.....its them I'm criticizing" Greta Thunberg, 12/4/19
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Re: Countdown To Impeachment Pt. 2

Unread postby asg70 » Mon 09 Dec 2019, 21:50:08

Newfie wrote:And what is the difference between any D and R if they are all liars, other than some tell lies you like and some don’t?


The topic is "countdown to impeachment", not just "popularity contests for politicians". As such, you have to focus on the big ticket items, the impeachable offenses.

As for lies, they do have consequences. Remember George H W Bush with his "no new taxes"? That cost him reelection. Obama, on the other hand, coasted to a second term. So the public has spoken and it's water under the bridge now. The only reason to keep bringing him up is to distract from Trump's misdeeds.

HALL OF SHAME:
-Short welched on a bet and should be shunned.
-Frequent-flyers should not cry crocodile-tears over climate-change.
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Re: Countdown To Impeachment Pt. 2

Unread postby Cog » Mon 09 Dec 2019, 22:55:37

The public spoke in 2016 and elected Trump. An act the left just couldn't accept. Guess what. You are going to have to accept another five years of Trump. Enjoy, because I am.
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Re: Countdown To Impeachment Pt. 2

Unread postby Newfie » Tue 10 Dec 2019, 06:41:29

In a 2017 study, political scientists Yascha Mounk and Roberto Stefan Foa showed that only 19 percent of millennials—that is, Americans born between 1981 and 1996—agreed with the statement that “military takeover is not legitimate in a democracy.” Meanwhile, one quarter agreed that “choosing leaders through free elections is unimportant.”


https://www.inquirer.com/opinion/commen ... 91209.html
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Re: Countdown To Impeachment Pt. 2

Unread postby Cog » Tue 10 Dec 2019, 07:13:15

Sounds like the millenials operate on their feelings instead such things like law. Not surprising given the current politically correct climate to be found in education.

Orange Man Bad=Impeachment
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Re: Countdown To Impeachment Pt. 2

Unread postby Plantagenet » Tue 10 Dec 2019, 17:59:01

The Ds wimped out by only voting on two articles of impeachment.

The Obstruction of Congress charge is absurd, since just about all presidents have claimed executive privilege and refused to allow their close staff members to testify to Congress. Obama did exactly the same thing when it came out that his administration had been running guns to Mexican drug gangs. They all refused to testify, and the Rs eventually voted to censure Obama's AG Eric Holder because of the refusal of DOJ staff to testify. That would've been the appropriate response to Trump as well, but the Ds hate Trump so they've swung for the fences and voted to impeach Trump for doing what every president does. The Senate will vote not guilty on this one for sure.

The second charge of abuse of power for withholding aid to Ukraine is also absurd, since no aid was withheld. Ukraine got the aid. I suspect the Rs will use the impeachment trial in the Senate to put into evidence the letter from Burisma to the State Department stating that Hunter Biden is on their payroll and an evil prosecutor is after them asking for help. And then they will play the video of Biden boasting about how he rushed to Ukraine and withheld a billion dollars in aid to Ukraine until they fired the prosecutor who was after his son and his corrupt job and Burisma. Then the Rs will place into evidence the leaked records, showing Burisma paid Hunter Biden three million dollars. Then they will call Hunter Biden to the stand, and ask him what exactly he did for BUrisma to earn his 3 million dollars.

That should sink Biden in the fall election, and Elizabeth Warren and Bernie are going to look bad as they try to defend Biden and Hunter's bribes in the Senate hearings on national TV.

Way to go Ds.....you've just played into the Rs hands again.....!
"Our house is on fire" Greta Thunberg, 12/28/19

"The people in power should listen.....its them I'm criticizing" Greta Thunberg, 12/4/19
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Re: Countdown To Impeachment Pt. 2

Unread postby Cog » Tue 10 Dec 2019, 19:17:14

If Mitch plays this right, he can drag a lot of Dems through the mud. He can also hold warren and sanders as hostage since they are required to be at the senate impeachment as jurors. Unless they want to recuse themselves due to the obvious bias as political opponents.
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Re: Countdown To Impeachment Pt. 2

Unread postby asg70 » Tue 10 Dec 2019, 20:33:31

Plantagenet wrote:The Ds wimped out by only voting on two articles of impeachment.


Thanks for agreeing that Trump is guilty of more.

HALL OF SHAME:
-Short welched on a bet and should be shunned.
-Frequent-flyers should not cry crocodile-tears over climate-change.
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Re: Countdown To Impeachment Pt. 2

Unread postby Cog » Wed 11 Dec 2019, 02:14:39

A charge does not prove guilt. You obviously do not understand the legal system. A trial will be held in the Senate. The president retains the presumption of innocence until the trial produces a verdict. The president is not above the law but he is not below it either.

Now you will see the difference between hearsay and federal rules of evidence. Enjoy the show. For you leftists, 2020 will produce sadness for you.
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Re: Countdown To Impeachment Pt. 2

Unread postby Cog » Wed 11 Dec 2019, 05:34:56

"When you strike at the king, you must kill him". --- Ralph Waldo Emerson

Now you Dems are going to fully understand what Emerson meant.
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