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China is finished... This is the End of China

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Re: China is finished... This is the End of China

Unread postby bochen777 » Sat 01 Aug 2020, 00:00:28

REAL Green wrote:
EnergyUnlimited wrote: That is how about entire West is going to end up, not only US.


If one takes into account global decline economically and energetically then this is an east west decline. The situation becomes worse when we look at planetary ecosystem decline and localized failures globally. Limits to growth to prosperity and further population growth point to both east and west regionally and locally. There is no place safe for a person that expects the status quo of growth and increasing prosperity of techno comforts.

So, yes, the US is in serious socio-political decline. This is bad but by no means the worst of the global situation of general decline. In fact, this socio-political decline is localized within the US with some areas much less disrupted. Globally socio-political decline is widespread also Economic decline is global with localized extremes.

Keep in mind also in many places in the East information is tightly controlled. People are controlled so the degree of critical analysis of declines and failures is more pronounced in the more open West. This is especially true in the US becuase of a cold CW2. Both sides are in deep criticism of the other and this magnifies the appearance of a worse situation than is reality. The world is full of anti-Americanism both in the Anglo world and Eurasia. So, this finger pointing at the US is partly true but also partly emotional and circumstantial. IOW it is bad here but by no means as bad as the rabid critics both internally and externally claim. Much of the extremes are localized with further magnification from a fake news corrupted MSM. Multiple alternative web-based news is likewise agenda based, fake, and extreme. If you put your waders on then you will go where the shit is less deep.



Breaking news, Trump bans TikTok, tomorrow on Saturday.
Will get Google and Apple to delist the app.
Chinese parent company ByteDance to be put on US entity list

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa- ... 4X3EL?il=0
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Re: China is finished... This is the End of China

Unread postby dissident » Sat 01 Aug 2020, 13:40:09

The fixation of the USA on China is clearly not related to its military potential. Russia is the only country on the planet that can glass the USA. If you don't believe that, too bad. So the real reason for the cold war on China is because China has the biggest real GDP on the planet and is ascending as the economic hyperpower. America can't stand the competition regardless of all the bleating about market economics. Since the USA is a species of empire, it cannot tolerate alternative power centers. So China gets targeted because it is an economic "threat" and Russia gets targeted because it is a military "threat". Of course, the "threat" is all in the mind of US deciders.

Neither China nor Russia are any real threat to the USA and its NATO minions. In fact, the NATO west has been using China as a sweatshop to leverage high profits on the consumer markets for decades. In the process a delusion was born that throwing western consumers under the bus with offshoring, downsizing, rightsizing and other profit grubbing would be OK since the growing consumer markets in China, India and elsewhere would more than compensate for consumer demand. This delusion has clearly not panned out and now we have the MAGA scramble and the fear mongering of China as a trick to enable it. But it is not just the economic nationalists in the USA who have a hate hard on for China. The so-called globalists of the D. Party colours have a hate on for it too.

In the case of Russia, you can see where the war hysteria lies and it is in NATO with its incessant 1930s style hate propaganda. There is no symmetry of hate in Russia. Russians are not being stoked for a war on NATO, but NATO residents are being propagandized into a fever pitch for war on Russia.
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Re: China is finished... This is the End of China

Unread postby dolanbaker » Sat 01 Aug 2020, 13:49:43

The biggest mistake western business leaders made was thinking that Chinese manufacturers would be quite content to just "make to (western) order" and have no ambitions of ever being leaders in their own field. Recent product developments of goods that match or exceed their western counterparts have clearly demonstrated this.

Now, rater than being simply subservient manufacturers, they are becoming more and more free standing and able to produce what the market wants without western stewardship.
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Re: China is finished... This is the End of China

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Sat 01 Aug 2020, 15:41:41

dolanbaker wrote:The biggest mistake western business leaders made was thinking that Chinese manufacturers would be quite content to just "make to (western) order" and have no ambitions of ever being leaders in their own field. Recent product developments of goods that match or exceed their western counterparts have clearly demonstrated this.

Now, rater than being simply subservient manufacturers, they are becoming more and more free standing and able to produce what the market wants without western stewardship.

And if they did it by being BETTER and SMARTER, good for them. However, far too often, it is by ignoring rules re patents and laws re copying/stealing and copyrights, etc, especially for complex products.

There's a LOT I dislike about Donald Trump, but re the Chinese behavior re compliance with international law on business, I think he has a rather good point, at least with complex products.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: China is finished... This is the End of China

Unread postby bochen777 » Sat 01 Aug 2020, 19:01:53

dolanbaker wrote:The biggest mistake western business leaders made was thinking that Chinese manufacturers would be quite content to just "make to (western) order" and have no ambitions of ever being leaders in their own field. Recent product developments of goods that match or exceed their western counterparts have clearly demonstrated this.

Now, rater than being simply subservient manufacturers, they are becoming more and more free standing and able to produce what the market wants without western stewardship.


The US government has awakened to that reality and now the long standing foreign policy with China has taken a dramatic u-turn, reverse course 180, etc and is especially blunt under the Trump administration but would still stay the course regardless who is the figurehead POTUS... its a repudiation of the US reapproachment with China 45 years ago... Pompeo himself recently said that US got nothing out of the nearly 50 year relationship and "nothing to show for it"... for sure, China's easy mode is over, and now has to seriously contend and defend itself against an anger and vicious Amerikkka that want nothing more than to rip China apart for daring to challenge the white world order...

US got wrong some of its core assumptions about China, that as China opened up its government would become more democratic (as in easier for CIA influence/ coups/etc) and its people would demand the so called freedum of speech and other so called liberties (so US can push its proganda into China and turn the Chinese citizens against their own "repressive" goverments if the said governments don't do what Washington asks etc) and all the way up until around 2013 America still believed that a stronger China was a net benefit to US hegemony rather than competition against it, because it was (in retrospect) overly confident in that end China would be ever content under the wings and umbrella of Uncle Sam and would acqueise much like the Japanese during the 80's and the Plaza Accord.

If you understand what the US gov had planned for decades and that it didn't pan out, then you can understand why the US is so pissed off at China right now... US helped faciliate China's growth not out of the kindness of their heart, and certaintly not because they cared one iota about the wellbeing of the Chinese people, but because the endgame had always been to grow China large enough that one day when the it got ripe enough the US was planning on harvesting China, and recapturing that wealth by taking China to the slaughters and in essence China was supposed to be one big piggybank that the US was storing up for its own retirement phase! Instead China wised up and said no, and went for Africa, to give the African countries a better overall deal, and now in one fell swoop the US is in danger of losing its cheap labor pool and its resource pool (the objective was to have China always be America's cheap factory by making sure China never climbed out of the middle income trap and to keep Africa poor so it can get the lowest rates on resource extraction since a developing Africa would have more bargaining power and cause the price of commodities and resources to go up etc)

The American system, as it currently is, was always unsustainable and could only ever keep on keeping on if China went with it as well... America is not going to leave China alone no matter how peaceful China is because China takes up enough of the world pie that if it didn't willingly integrate under the US system and if it could go off and do its own thing or set up parallel system etc, then the US collapses and the house of cards comes crashing down...
Last edited by bochen777 on Sat 01 Aug 2020, 20:33:01, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: China is finished... This is the End of China

Unread postby bochen777 » Sat 01 Aug 2020, 19:16:29

Outcast_Searcher wrote:
dolanbaker wrote:The biggest mistake western business leaders made was thinking that Chinese manufacturers would be quite content to just "make to (western) order" and have no ambitions of ever being leaders in their own field. Recent product developments of goods that match or exceed their western counterparts have clearly demonstrated this.

Now, rater than being simply subservient manufacturers, they are becoming more and more free standing and able to produce what the market wants without western stewardship.

And if they did it by being BETTER and SMARTER, good for them. However, far too often, it is by ignoring rules re patents and laws re copying/stealing and copyrights, etc, especially for complex products.

There's a LOT I dislike about Donald Trump, but re the Chinese behavior re compliance with international law on business, I think he has a rather good point, at least with complex products.


Yeah no, in this day and age complex products/systems are not able to be copied just by looking at patents or a blueprint. that is no longer how it works... For sure during China's initial ascent phase there had been IP infringement, (which ascending nation hasn't done this? US back in its rise was way worse) but the US convincentlyl likes to look to the past and ignore the reality on the ground right now... China has 8 times the STEM grads than US and puts out way more patents than the US these days... Huawei has a mountain of 5G patents, but when the US loses ground it changes the rules in an ever moving goalpost of sore loser, now the US senators like Marco Rubio and Tom Cotton are calling for US invalidating all Chinese patents and stealing them for free (when Huawei actually offered to sell/license its 5G to US companies) all based on the pretext that Huawei is on the US entity list and thus a bad actor, but they don't highlight the "justification" of Huawei getting on the entity list in the first place were actually due to civil litigation that were already long settled and happened more than a decade ago.... so really what the US is doing is retroactively leveraging the strength of its past glory days to attempt to sanction, constrain and contain the continued legitimate tech ascension and growth/development of China as moving forward into the future... this strategy can work for a while, it can slow China down, maybe even by a lot, but it can't hold back China forever... (unless US decided to go to war but that's a totally different calculus)

It is a battle of hegemony/systems, each nation wants best for itself, this is natural. US only cared about rule of law when it was ahead of the game and it benefited from everyone else following those rules, the moment that wasn't the case you see the gloves are off... but to pretend to cheer on China's rise if only it did it the right way is not being honest with yourself... just like the US pretends it would encourage a more prosperous China if China was open, democratic, etc etc... yeah right... lets not kid ourselves.
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Re: China is finished... This is the End of China

Unread postby dolanbaker » Sat 01 Aug 2020, 23:06:37

Outcast_Searcher wrote:
dolanbaker wrote:The biggest mistake western business leaders made was thinking that Chinese manufacturers would be quite content to just "make to (western) order" and have no ambitions of ever being leaders in their own field. Recent product developments of goods that match or exceed their western counterparts have clearly demonstrated this.

Now, rater than being simply subservient manufacturers, they are becoming more and more free standing and able to produce what the market wants without western stewardship.

And if they did it by being BETTER and SMARTER, good for them. However, far too often, it is by ignoring rules re patents and laws re copying/stealing and copyrights, etc, especially for complex products.

There's a LOT I dislike about Donald Trump, but re the Chinese behaviour re compliance with international law on business, I think he has a rather good point, at least with complex products.


Yes,it is widely known that when Chinese "students" were invited on factory tours, that they were far more intensively watching the process than your average visitors and asked far more pertinent question as to how the process operated, usually gaining sufficient information to reproduce the process back in China.

Talk about giving it away!

However, the real issue for the west is now China is starting to go ahead, so the copyright argument is holding less water as innovations appear that are entirely Chinese in nature.
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Re: China is finished... This is the End of China

Unread postby bochen777 » Sat 01 Aug 2020, 23:45:34

dolanbaker wrote:
Outcast_Searcher wrote:
dolanbaker wrote:The biggest mistake western business leaders made was thinking that Chinese manufacturers would be quite content to just "make to (western) order" and have no ambitions of ever being leaders in their own field. Recent product developments of goods that match or exceed their western counterparts have clearly demonstrated this.

Now, rater than being simply subservient manufacturers, they are becoming more and more free standing and able to produce what the market wants without western stewardship.

And if they did it by being BETTER and SMARTER, good for them. However, far too often, it is by ignoring rules re patents and laws re copying/stealing and copyrights, etc, especially for complex products.

There's a LOT I dislike about Donald Trump, but re the Chinese behaviour re compliance with international law on business, I think he has a rather good point, at least with complex products.


Yes,it is widely known that when Chinese "students" were invited on factory tours, that they were far more intensively watching the process than your average visitors and asked far more pertinent question as to how the process operated, usually gaining sufficient information to reproduce the process back in China.

Talk about giving it away!

However, the real issue for the west is now China is starting to go ahead, so the copyright argument is holding less water as innovations appear that are entirely Chinese in nature.


USA has a lot of hidden advantages too.. you know the saying that all is fair in love and war?

People like to talk about laws, rules, rule of law, rules based system, but its all meaningless. These schemes exists to serve hegemony not the other way around... The only real "rules" are those imposed by the constraints of the laws of physics, everything else goes in the fight to maintain/win hegemony... the US side knows that at current status quo if nothing drastic is done to change course that in the long run China will win...

So US will try everything possible outside the box to prevent that from happening... and as we have seen, even countries that initially welcomed the Huawei 5G (for the better deal) were pressured and really coerced/blackmailed in joining the US camp in terms of shunning away Chinese tech/deals... this is all US trying to protect its own hegemony, but fair or not, right or wrong, at the end of the day its result based, it is what US can achieve or what China hasn't achieved...

China is behind on PR, propaganda, informational warfare, and US holds the platforms of control and information chokepoints (Google platform, Apple ecosystem, Microsoft etc) and so a lot of tactics that the US can use on China, is asymmetrical and China cannot use the same to fight back etc...

In order of costs, its cheaper to use PR/spin/propaganda and information warfare to destabilize and color revolution a country and then do a coup than it is to invade that country.... for bigger nations like China, invasion would be way to expensive, and a coup is not all that likely since China has taken active measures to protect itself, but the US has other strategies like economic warfare, weaponizing its dollar hegemony, maybe even biowarfare, cyberwar, and basically a CIA mystery fire of ASML EUV machine here, ASF for pork price inflation there, overthrow of Bolivia elected leader to deprive China of the lithium contracts, well you get the picture, its containment of China by a thousand slices... China is at disadvantage here because China isn't good at PR, brainwashing, and China doesn't do false flag operations like Pearl Harbor, Gulf of Tonkin, 911/ 7/7, covid, etc

US also has the ability to get its vassals to shoulder the burden of fighting China for it, even if its too costly for America to take down China by itself, it has the uncanny ability to recruit its vassals to put American interests about their own, politics above economics, and if US can unite together a good portion of the world all willing (coerced or otherwise but I think the US term is "partner of choice" which is doublespeak like free speech is only free to say what they allow to say, so the choice is there if only you choose the US lol ) to place the interest of US above that of the citizens of their own country then collectively that would be enough to reverse the tide and not only contain but also erase China's growth/ascension... this would be the worst outcome for China, to be isolated and bypassed on the world stage...
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Re: China is finished... This is the End of China

Unread postby bochen777 » Sun 02 Aug 2020, 12:05:32

China’s new Century of Humiliation has started:

How The White House Helped U.S. Investors To Raid A Chinese Company

https://www.moonofalabama.org/2020/08/t ... mpany.html
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Re: China is finished... This is the End of China

Unread postby bochen777 » Sun 02 Aug 2020, 18:10:25

Pompous just said WeChat also to get banned within next coming days

I actually think US is preparing for war, to attack China kinetically soon. I can almost understand the motivation to ban tiktok but the only reason why they would ban wechat is if they fear wechat could be used to topple the us petrodollar hegemony or if US about to go to hot war with China. my money is on the later

If you don’t hear from me in the next couple weeks you may permissibly infer and reasonably assume that I’ve been gas chambered to death as part of the US government rounding up and genocide of all Chinese Americans in the USA...

https://www.breitbart.com/clips/2020/08 ... ming-days/
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Re: China is finished... This is the End of China

Unread postby Newfie » Mon 03 Aug 2020, 08:48:01

Diplomacy: It's not just in numbers of ships that China is attempting to overtake the United States, with regard to the Arctic. China, in the model of its Belt and Road Initiative, is attempting to set up a "Polar Silk Road." With climate change making shipping lanes through the Arctic more plausible, China sees an opportunity to dominate what is likely to be a stepped-up level of Arctic commerce by establishing diplomatic and economic relationships with Arctic countries.

Solheim notes China's increased activity on the Arctic Council, an international organization of Arctic countries, which China is not technically a member of, and its efforts to court individual members of the council as well. China in the last decade, for example, signed a free trade agreement with Iceland. It's also tried to use its Confucious Institutes -- Chinese government-programs that exist in American universities as well -- to spread propaganda in Arctic countries.

China also tried to build airports in the Danish territory of Greenland before the U.S. put the brakes on that enterprise, and in May gained majority control of a Norwegian airline through several degrees of corporations owning other corporations.

GORDON CHANG: US-CHINA RELATIONS -- 4 REASONS TO SCALE BACK DIPLOMATIC FACILITIES IN BOTH COUNTRIES

"We're all familiar with the way that China instituted debt trapping scams in Africa. They'll come in and they'll say, 'Hey, we'll build you this port at this really high interest rate, and if you don't pay, it's ours.' And then that exact sequence happens. So now China owns your port," Solheim said.

"It's different in the way that it works in the Arctic because these are not poor countries with very high debt-to-GDP ratios," he continued. "These are real developed countries. And so what China is attempting to do instead is be diplomatic, which is not really good at it, but it's trying to do it anyway."

And when diplomacy or subtle propaganda doesn't work, China has resorted to threats.

On Swedish public radio in November, according to The Economist, Chinese Ambassador to Sweden Gui Congyou said, "We treat our friends with fine wine, but for our enemies we have shotguns." Sweden, according to Radio Free Asia, had closed all the Confucius Institutes in its country by April, as its relationship with China continued to deteriorate.


https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump- ... ssia-china

The above quote is from an especially good article that starts talking about US ice breakers but then goes into this analysis on China’s diplomacy.

It can be clearly seen in the poor, non-DU Caribbean nations where China has presence. China builds roads and hospitals and in return gets UN votes. China is smart in some ways the US is not.
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Re: China is finished... This is the End of China

Unread postby dissident » Mon 03 Aug 2020, 11:05:13

Attempts to keep China out of the Artic are doomed to failure because Russia will make sure any such pathetic imperial BS does not fly. The Americans are not going to control the North-East passage like they control the Suez and Panama. American politicians are absurd. Waving their dicks around like they own Russian Arctic territorial waters and claiming they can parade their warships through them at leisure. The clowns don't even have the right design for warships to prevent ice accumulation and utterly lack any ice breaker capacity to back up all the dick waving.

BTW, NATO propaganda about Russia "militarizing" the Arctic will not lubricate its control over the North East passage. This propaganda is inane since it is NATO itself that is trying to thrust its navies into the region and NATO has no authority on how Russia uses its territory. Placing an S-400 system near its Arctic coast is called defense. Too bad the imperial wannabes do not get unhindered access. Life sucks so lump it.
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Re: China is finished... This is the End of China

Unread postby EnergyUnlimited » Mon 03 Aug 2020, 11:16:29

bochen777 wrote:Pompous just said WeChat also to get banned within next coming days

I actually think US is preparing for war, to attack China kinetically soon. I can almost understand the motivation to ban tiktok but the only reason why they would ban wechat is if they fear wechat could be used to topple the us petrodollar hegemony or if US about to go to hot war with China. my money is on the later

If you don’t hear from me in the next couple weeks you may permissibly infer and reasonably assume that I’ve been gas chambered to death as part of the US government rounding up and genocide of all Chinese Americans in the USA...

https://www.breitbart.com/clips/2020/08 ... ming-days/

Very much like I was claiming that COVID is not race specific I will insist that there won't be a general war between US and China anytime in coming decade or two.
All what can happen is a regional war on South China Sea and sinking of first American carrier is going to end it.
OTOH if US keeps carriers away then we can only see occasional fire exchange but nothing like an open war.
Somehow I believe that neither Chinese nor Americans are on suicide mission yet.
Inability to attack Iran shows that China is entirely out of range.

Regarding Chinese populations in US - they won't be murdered or anything like that but XIX century styled "quarantines of China towns" may well be implemented.
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Re: China is finished... This is the End of China

Unread postby jedrider » Mon 03 Aug 2020, 12:15:34

EnergyUnlimited wrote:Regarding Chinese populations in US - they won't be murdered or anything like that but XIX century styled "quarantines of China towns" may well be implemented.


I hardily doubt that. The Chinese are very well integrated in our society. No way that can happen now. They are as much a part of the fabric of our society than those bible touting baptist southerners. Go to any graduate technical school and report back how many Chinese you find.
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Re: China is finished... This is the End of China

Unread postby EnergyUnlimited » Mon 03 Aug 2020, 12:23:11

jedrider wrote:They are as much a part of the fabric of our society than those bible touting baptist southerners. Go to any graduate technical school and report back how many Chinese you find.

Somehow I think that lets say Cog or Shorty is more of an American than Bohen777 :-D
Mind you, for what I read it is now socially acceptable in US to be racist towards "chinks" :-D
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Re: China is finished... This is the End of China

Unread postby bochen777 » Mon 03 Aug 2020, 12:23:43

EnergyUnlimited wrote:
bochen777 wrote:Pompous just said WeChat also to get banned within next coming days

I actually think US is preparing for war, to attack China kinetically soon. I can almost understand the motivation to ban tiktok but the only reason why they would ban wechat is if they fear wechat could be used to topple the us petrodollar hegemony or if US about to go to hot war with China. my money is on the later

If you don’t hear from me in the next couple weeks you may permissibly infer and reasonably assume that I’ve been gas chambered to death as part of the US government rounding up and genocide of all Chinese Americans in the USA...

https://www.breitbart.com/clips/2020/08 ... ming-days/

Very much like I was claiming that COVID is not race specific I will insist that there won't be a general war between US and China anytime in coming decade or two.
All what can happen is a regional war on South China Sea and sinking of first American carrier is going to end it.
OTOH if US keeps carriers away then we can only see occasional fire exchange but nothing like an open war.
Somehow I believe that neither Chinese nor Americans are on suicide mission yet.
Inability to attack Iran shows that China is entirely out of range.

Regarding Chinese populations in US - they won't be murdered or anything like that but XIX century styled "quarantines of China towns" may well be implemented.


US will tactical nuke the SCS islands to make sure its leveled and cant be used in the future. China doesnt have a good response to that other than maybe strike Guam or nuke Diego Garcia... either case this can escalate fast
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Re: China is finished... This is the End of China

Unread postby bochen777 » Mon 03 Aug 2020, 12:30:32

jedrider wrote:
EnergyUnlimited wrote:Regarding Chinese populations in US - they won't be murdered or anything like that but XIX century styled "quarantines of China towns" may well be implemented.


I hardily doubt that. The Chinese are very well integrated in our society. No way that can happen now. They are as much a part of the fabric of our society than those bible touting baptist southerners. Go to any graduate technical school and report back how many Chinese you find.


Chinese Anericans are barely 2% of the US population.

In the age of AI, machine learning, automation, Total information awareness, they can totally do this in a few hours...

All Chinese Americans wake up to find their home ISP cut, their phones and smartphones dead, their computers dont turn on, their water and electric utilites cut, their employment terminated due to labeled enemy combatant, their car remotely disable, bank account frozen, 401k confiscated, car and house title forfeited, passport and license revoked, credit and debit cards useless.

No money, no communication, no transportation, no ID, no standing whatsoever.

Then they await to get picked up by US troops to get shot, gassed or burned and buried alive under Trump EO... anyone who tries to help will be declared traitor and harboring terrorists etc
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Re: China is finished... This is the End of China

Unread postby EnergyUnlimited » Mon 03 Aug 2020, 12:32:38

bochen777 wrote:US will tactical nuke the SCS islands to make sure its leveled and cant be used in the future. China doesnt have a good response to that other than maybe strike Guam or nuke Diego Garcia... either case this can escalate fast

No, there won't be any nuking.
Neither Americans or Chinese are on suicide mission.
Such attack would be a gateway to general war which would leave both countries annihilated.
China has plenty of options to respond, even without nuking anything.
Hunting down American carrier groups whenever in vicinity is an obvious choice, naturally in addition to taking over Taiwan by force, what can be done within 2-3 days.
But probably nuke-for-nuke policy would be applied as a warning.
In addition it is really not that difficult for China to build several thousands of nukes together with delivery systems.
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Re: China is finished... This is the End of China

Unread postby bochen777 » Mon 03 Aug 2020, 12:42:20

EnergyUnlimited wrote:
bochen777 wrote:US will tactical nuke the SCS islands to make sure its leveled and cant be used in the future. China doesnt have a good response to that other than maybe strike Guam or nuke Diego Garcia... either case this can escalate fast

No, there won't be any nuking.
Neither Americans or Chinese are on suicide mission.
Such attack would be a gateway to general war which would leave both countries annihilated.
China has plenty of options to respond, even without nuking anything.
Hunting down American carrier groups whenever in vicinity is an obvious choice, naturally in addition to taking over Taiwan by force, what can be done within 2-3 days.
But probably nuke-for-nuke policy would be applied as a warning.
In addition it is really not that difficult for China to build several thousands of nukes together with delivery systems.



US is on suicide mission, more of a scorthed earth policy actually...

US will nuke SCS in October...

We can see who wins this prediction, unless Im already gassed by US gov before then
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Re: China is finished... This is the End of China

Unread postby shortonoil » Mon 03 Aug 2020, 14:30:51

Neither Americans or Chinese are on suicide mission.


Building the Three Gorges Dam was a suicide mission. 480 million will die if it fails. Another example of the sick minds of the CCP
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