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China and electricity blackouts (merged)

A forum for discussion of regional topics including oil depletion but also government, society, and the future.

The opposite of "heat or eat" is "cool or steel"

Unread postby babystrangeloop » Tue 09 Aug 2011, 06:41:17

Run the A/C's or run the steel mills? Not enough power to do both.
China Crude Steel Output Falls Second Month on Power Curbs
Andrew Hobbs / Bloomberg News / August 9, 2011


China’s crude steel production, the world’s biggest, fell for a second month amid regional power shortages during the peak summer season.

... China’s southern regions may face temperatures of up to 39 degrees Celsius in the near term, exacerbating electricity supply tightness as residents increase use of air-conditioners, the National Bureau of Statistics said July 29. Shanghai, home to Baosteel Group Corp., the nation’s second-biggest mill, limited electricity use at 1,435 manufacturers for the first time this year, the local power supplier said last month. ...

I wonder how this is going to end. How will world-wide economic collapse factor into and re-factor this situation? Will it make for cheaper fuel resources and reactive China or will crashing demand for goods push China down further?
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Re: The opposite of "heat or eat" is "cool or steel"

Unread postby americandream » Tue 09 Aug 2011, 06:47:59

babystrangeloop wrote:Run the A/C's or run the steel mills? Not enough power to do both.
China Crude Steel Output Falls Second Month on Power Curbs
Andrew Hobbs / Bloomberg News / August 9, 2011


China’s crude steel production, the world’s biggest, fell for a second month amid regional power shortages during the peak summer season.

... China’s southern regions may face temperatures of up to 39 degrees Celsius in the near term, exacerbating electricity supply tightness as residents increase use of air-conditioners, the National Bureau of Statistics said July 29. Shanghai, home to Baosteel Group Corp., the nation’s second-biggest mill, limited electricity use at 1,435 manufacturers for the first time this year, the local power supplier said last month. ...

I wonder how this is going to end. How will world-wide economic collapse factor into and re-factor this situation? Will it make for cheaper fuel resources and reactive China or will crashing demand for goods push China down further?


I suspect they will start floggin their workers in a bid to sell the garden gnomes at discounted discounts. The pigshit renegades running that country are possibly the lowest form of life, even further down the scale than the incumbents on Wall Street.....well, maybe running neck and neck with the Islamics perhaps.
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Re: The opposite of "heat or eat" is "cool or steel"

Unread postby Serial_Worrier » Sun 14 Aug 2011, 00:23:15

americandream wrote:I suspect they will start floggin their workers in a bid to sell the garden gnomes at discounted discounts. The pigshit renegades running that country are possibly the lowest form of life, even further down the scale than the incumbents on Wall Street.....well, maybe running neck and neck with the Islamics perhaps.


If China starts really abusing their workers, they will start dying off like flies.
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Re: The opposite of "heat or eat" is "cool or steel"

Unread postby americandream » Sun 14 Aug 2011, 03:23:27

Serial_Worrier wrote:
americandream wrote:I suspect they will start floggin their workers in a bid to sell the garden gnomes at discounted discounts. The pigshit renegades running that country are possibly the lowest form of life, even further down the scale than the incumbents on Wall Street.....well, maybe running neck and neck with the Islamics perhaps.


If China starts really abusing their workers, they will start dying off like flies.


The days of starving your labour is over. These are also consumers. The new wage dynamic will be a balancing act between ensuring that your labour force make as small a demand on your costs as is feasible whilst retaining value as consumers. The ideal state of course, is a casualised workforce with a sufficiently strong consumer profile to maintain growth. This is where holding two or more jobs down will probably come to the fore, a growing service sector allowing.
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Re: China heads toward a summer of blackouts

Unread postby babystrangeloop » Sun 14 Aug 2011, 10:30:15

Authority steps in to prevent blackouts
By An Baijie and Huang Zhaohua / China Daily / August 12, 2011


NANNING - A South China county has placed limits on the amount of electricity that can go to companies that consume large amounts of energy in response to local residents' complaints about frequent blackouts.

An official from the publicity department of Tengxian county, in the Guangxi Zhuang autonomous region, said many local villages have been subject to power shortages for months.

"It's a fact that we don't have enough electricity," said the official, who didn't want to give his full name. "But the only thing we government officials can do is to use our air conditioners less often."

To maintain an electricity supply for local residents, the government has decided to restrict the power use of a pottery company, several titanium powder factories and other enterprises, all of which contribute greatly to the local economy.

... The autonomous region is seeing its most serious electricity shortage in the past two decades, leaving nearly 30 percent of the region's demand for electricity unmet, said He Jiyuan, deputy director of the power supply bureau of Nanning, capital of Guangxi.

Guangxi's capacity to produce electricity falls about 3.5 million kW to 4 million kW short of being able to give the region what it needs. Every day in recent weeks, the amount of Guangxi's power shortage has come to between 80 million kWh to 90 million kWh, which means 30 percent of the region's demand for electricity is not being met. ...
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Re: China heads toward a summer of blackouts

Unread postby babystrangeloop » Sun 14 Aug 2011, 18:23:29

China power shorage up to 70m kW in 2013
Xinhua / August 13, 2011


BEIJING-- China, the world's second largest economy, is expected to face a power shortage up to 70 million kilowatts in 2013, worsening from 50 million kilowatts (kW) in 2012, an official with the China Electricity Council said Friday.

Wei Shaofeng, deputy director of the council, said China's power crunch in the next few years will be worse than the situation in the five years to 2010, with lack of electricity hitting a wider range of areas. ...
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Re: China heads toward a summer of blackouts

Unread postby babystrangeloop » Tue 16 Aug 2011, 08:27:01

China's zinc output may fall on power shortage, lower demand
Metal Bulletin Ltd. / August 15, 2011


China’s zinc producers could reduce output in coming months due to both power shortage and sliding demand ...
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Re: China heads toward a summer of blackouts

Unread postby babystrangeloop » Tue 23 Aug 2011, 21:45:17

Regulations for electricity volumes for ferroalloy producers in China enlarged
The TEX Report Ltd via Steel Guru / August 23, 2011


... China National Development and Reformation Commission raised electricity fees for industrial use from the 10th of April in Guizhou Province and from the June 1st in Hunan Province but even these arrangements are still unable to resolve entirely a shortage of electricity. Also owing to a heavy rainfall attacked in June and the water level at hydroelectric power generation plants went up and it was once expected that a shortage of electricity in this summer will be loosened but the matter to strengthen the regulations for electricity has been caused by electricity fees. Therefore, there is a high possibility to be difficult to resolve soon this problem.

For a reference, National Electric Wire-Net Corporation which has been controlling the network for distribution of electricity to 26 provinces in China said that the supply situation of electricity for 10 provinces including Beijing, Tianjin, Tangshan, Shanghai, Chongqing, Heibei Province, Jiangsu Province, Zhejiang Province, Hunan Province, Henan Province and Jiangxi Province has been still tightened. However, according to information from some of the parties concerned a shortage of electricity in China has a possibility to enlarge further to a wider area. ...
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Re: China heads toward a summer of blackouts

Unread postby peeker01 » Tue 23 Aug 2011, 22:39:04

I wonder if the Chinese government is shutting down coal generating plants like our's is? That
could cause blackouts.
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Re: China heads toward a summer of blackouts

Unread postby dolanbaker » Wed 24 Aug 2011, 04:18:10

peeker01 wrote:I wonder if the Chinese government is shutting down coal generating plants like our's is? That
could cause blackouts.

Doubt it, sounds like they're going flat out as the load is increasing faster than the supply.
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Re: China heads toward a summer of blackouts

Unread postby babystrangeloop » Wed 24 Aug 2011, 08:10:09

peeker01 wrote:I wonder if the Chinese government is shutting down coal generating plants like our's is? That
could cause blackouts.

China regulates the price of things when the can. They regulate the price of electricity. Since 80% of their electricity is produced by burning coal they regulate the price of coal. They can't regulate the world market's price of coal. If they need more coal than they can produce domestically they have to buy more expensive foreign coal. But how to pay for it when the end product, electricity, has regulated prices?

Dry spell exacerbates SW China's power crunch
China Daily / August 24, 2011


... Guizhou is southern China's major coal-producing base with an annual output of 150 million tonnes of coal, but managers of the province's coal-fired power stations say they have little incentive to generate electricity as the government-imposed cap on electricity prices make the business unprofitable. ...

China's demand for coal outgrew its domestic supply bumping their heads into a ceiling.

There are other issues too. Hydroelectric power is 100% domestic and the fuel is just falling water. It makes power produced from hydroelectric generators a profit maker and the profits can be used to subsidize coal purchases. So the loss of hydropower hits twice, once as a loss of directly-generated electricity and again as a loss in coal purchasing power.
Dry spell exacerbates SW China's power crunch
China Daily / August 24, 2011


GUIYANG - A dry spell plaguing Southwest China that has pushed up electricity demand and crippled hydro-power output is exacerbating the power crunch in the region, officials said Wednesday.

In Guizhou province, power supply is about 120 million kilowatt-hours short of demand on an average day, statistics from the provincial power grid company show. The shortage is caused mainly by the chronical strain in the coal supply and declining hydropower output, officials said.

The drought has dried up the reservoirs which Guizhou's major hydroelectric stations are located, reducing the province's daily hydro power output by 28.5 percent compared to the same period last year, said Zhang Quanyi, an official with the economic and informationization committee of Guizhou.

Zhang said the hydro-power reserve was only 530 million kilowatt-hours, about one-tenth of what it was at the same time last year.

The neighboring Guangxi Zhuang autonomous region is also squeezed by the power crunch, which has forced 1,000 factories and companies in the region to suspend operations, local officials said.

That's right "suspend operations" as in "regulated to not manufacture anything" and it shows up in their manufacturing PMI indicators being below 50 which indicates contraction.
The output of three major hydro-electric stations on Guangxi's Hongshui River was down 50 percent from a year earlier and experts suspect the stations will run on low water levels for long time.

Enduring heat and a lack of rain over the past few weeks have left parts of south China drought striken. In Guangxi, about 150,000 residents did not have adequate access to drinking water. The drought also wiped out harvest on 10,000 hectares of farmland in the region.

... Power consumption totaled more than 2.2 trillion kilowatt-hours in the first half of the year, up 12.2 percent from a year earlier, said Wei Shaofeng, deputy director of China Electricity Council, who has predicted further power shortages in autumn and winter.

China's current power demand is high, boosted by massive use of air conditioners due to hot weather, and robust industrial consumption of electricity, he said.

The official said the power crunch in the next few years will be worse than the situation in the five years to 2010, with lack of electricity hitting a wider range of areas.
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Re: China heads toward a summer of blackouts

Unread postby babystrangeloop » Tue 30 Aug 2011, 22:57:15

Power runs short in the south
By Sun Yuanqing / China Daily / August 29, 2011


Five provinces in South China are experiencing the most severe electricity shortage in the past five years, leaving 10 percent of the region's demand for electricity unmet, according to China National Radio.

Among the five provinces, the Guangxi Zhuang autonomous region and Guizhou province fall almost 20 percent short of being able to produce the electricity needed. ...


Power shortages plague businesses
China Daily via English.Eastday.Com / August 30, 2011


GUANGZHOU - Binchuan Metals Co has had weekly power blackouts this summer and uses 2,000 liters of diesel every month to fuel its own generators.

"This adds to our costs," said the head of its administrative department, surnamed Tang.

The company, based in Dongguan, Guangdong province, is not alone. In fact, some areas in this manufacturing hub have been experiencing blackouts three days a week, according to the power supply bureau.

"The lack of water and coal, and the peak demand season, have resulted in a tight power supply, which will worsen," said Wang Jifeng, director of the control and communications center of China Southern Power Grid Co.

"The power shortage is the worst in five years," Wang said. ...
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China's Power Crisis

Unread postby babystrangeloop » Thu 01 Sep 2011, 08:15:08

China Focus: Dry spell exacerbates SW China's power crunch
Xinhua Economic News Service / August 24, 2011


A dry spell plaguing southwest China that has pushed up electricity demand and crippled hydro-power output is exacerbating the power crunch in the region, officials said Wednesday.

In Guizhou Province, power supply is about 120 million kilowatt-hours short of demand on an average day, statistics from the provincial power grid company show. The shortage is caused mainly by the chronical strain in the coal supply and declining hydropower output, officials said.

The drought has dried up the reservoirs which Guizhou's major hydroelectric stations are located, reducing the province's daily hydro power output by 28.5 percent compared to the same period last year, said Zhang Quanyi, an official with the economic and informationization committee of Guizhou.

Zhang said the hydro-power reserve was only 530 million kilowatt-hours, about one-tenth of what it was at the same time last year.

The neighboring Guangxi Zhuang Autonomous Region is also squeezed by the power crunch, which has forced 1,000 factories and companies in the region to suspend operations, local officials said. ...


Power runs short in the south
By Sun Yuanqing / China Daily / August 29, 2011


Five provinces in South China are experiencing the most severe electricity shortage in the past five years, leaving 10 percent of the region's demand for electricity unmet, according to China National Radio.

Among the five provinces, the Guangxi Zhuang autonomous region and Guizhou province fall almost 20 percent short of being able to produce the electricity needed. ...


Power shortages plague businesses
China Daily via English.Eastday.Com / August 30, 2011


GUANGZHOU - Binchuan Metals Co has had weekly power blackouts this summer and uses 2,000 liters of diesel every month to fuel its own generators.

"This adds to our costs," said the head of its administrative department, surnamed Tang.

The company, based in Dongguan, Guangdong province, is not alone. In fact, some areas in this manufacturing hub have been experiencing blackouts three days a week, according to the power supply bureau.

"The lack of water and coal, and the peak demand season, have resulted in a tight power supply, which will worsen," said Wang Jifeng, director of the control and communications center of China Southern Power Grid Co.

"The power shortage is the worst in five years," Wang said. ...
Last edited by babystrangeloop on Thu 01 Sep 2011, 08:46:22, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: China's Power Crisis

Unread postby babystrangeloop » Thu 01 Sep 2011, 08:21:09

Power Shortages Inflict Pain on Business
By Tom McGregor, Web Editor: Yu / CRIENGLISH.com / August 31, 2011


Amidst China's energy crisis, companies were the worst affected by the blackouts. As power shortages plague China, the businesses that provide jobs for millions of people must delay operations. Sooner or later, these blackouts could dampen the economic outlook of the nation. Hence, China's power grid must do more to avert obstacles that hamper economic progress.

South China faces the biggest brunt of power shortages. Wang Jifeng, the director of the control and communications center of the China Southern Power Grid Co., told the China Daily, "the lack of water and coal, and the peak demand season, have resulted in tight power supply, which will worsen. The power shortage is the worst in five years." ...

Chinese FeSi export market stays quiet
‎Steel Business Briefing / September 1, 2011


Power cuts in southern China have created a shortage of silico-manganese, and some FeSi smelters have switched to producing SiMn to make up for the ...
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Re: China's Power Crisis

Unread postby ritter » Thu 01 Sep 2011, 12:19:50

I find it interesting that China can't keep up with demand. They have plenty of labor, technology, no real environmental regulations curtailing placement/constriction of new plants and seemingly the money to implement. So is this simply an indication of a limited supply of raw energy sources to convert to electricity?
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Re: China's Power Crisis

Unread postby babystrangeloop » Thu 01 Sep 2011, 19:31:39

ritter wrote:So is this simply an indication of a limited supply of raw energy sources to convert to electricity?

Supply and demand are the fundamentals for setting a price in a typical market economy.

Up to a point China could avoid this by regulating price since their government has (more or less) absolute power over their citizens.

What went wrong was China's energy demands grew until theySupply and demand are the fundamentals for setting a price in a typical market economy. exceeded what they could provide domestically (and domestic energy sources had regulated prices.)

Faced with the need to use energy sources that they are unable to control the price of a number of things went wrong and are continuing to go wrong.

Bad summer of power shortages threatens China economic growth
Michael Sainsbury / The Australian / June 23, 2011
CHINA'S worst summer of power cuts since 2004 threatens to disrupt the economy and add to inflationary pressures.


Summer power shortages are a regular occurrence in the world's second-largest economy, but a number of provinces, led by the business powerhouse, Shanghai, have introduced rationing for industrial users.

... The key reason behind the central government's inability to control the price of coal is that China has moved from being a self-sufficient coal producer to a net importer of coal. ...
Last edited by babystrangeloop on Thu 01 Sep 2011, 19:58:59, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: China's Power Crisis

Unread postby babystrangeloop » Thu 01 Sep 2011, 19:37:52

TABLE-China power shortage forecasts by region
Reporting by Jim Bai and Chen Aizhu; Editing by Ken Wills / Reuters / Aug 2, 2011


BEIJING, Aug 2 (Reuters) - China's power shortfalls would total 30-40 gigawatts in summer, China Electricity Council said in its latest industry analysis. The deficit represents an upward revision of its previous deficit forecast of about 30 GW. ...


The report now shows the situation is getting worse after previous versions had some improvements:

Total power deficit in gigawatts (GW)
Total 44.85-49.85 (June 2)
Total 42.87-47.87 (June 15)
Total 45.97-51.17 (July 19)
Total 46.17-51.37 (Aug 2)
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Re: China's Power Crisis

Unread postby americandream » Thu 01 Sep 2011, 19:46:51

babystrangeloop wrote:
ritter wrote:So is this simply an indication of a limited supply of raw energy sources to convert to electricity?

Supply and demand are the fundamentals for setting a price in a typical market economy.

Up to a point China could avoid this by regulating price since their government has (more or less) absolute power over their citizens.

What went wrong was China's energy demands grew until they exceeded what they could provide domestically (and domestic energy sources had regulated prices.)

Faced with the need to use energy sources that they are unable to control the price of a number of things went wrong and are continuing to go wrong.


These costs will feed through into their exports in due course. Of course, at that stage, Africa will probably come on line as the next most desirable destination for FDI.
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Re: China's Power Crisis

Unread postby babystrangeloop » Thu 01 Sep 2011, 20:16:40

americandream wrote:Africa will probably come on line as the next most desirable destination for FDI.

Maybe in the long term Africa will but in the short term Vietnam, Cambodia and maybe South Korea are already being targeted.

Made in China
By: Michael L. Tan / Philippine Daily Inquirer / September 1, 2011


... While we don’t have figures on the value of the traded products, it was probably very large, reflecting an early appetite among our ancestors for “Made in China” products. Later, as today, cheaper “Made in Vietnam” versions appeared. ...

Make or break
Geoff Strong / The Age / September 2, 2011


... Now as wages rise in China, manufacturing is moving to places like Vietnam and Cambodia, where wages are cheaper.'' ...
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Re: China's Power Crisis

Unread postby americandream » Thu 01 Sep 2011, 20:57:02

The quest for profit is like a river. It seeks the shortest route to the sea level of surplus and with China operating a gargantuan machine with wafer slim returns, capitalists will eventually have to base these industries right beside low cost commodities zones with underpriced labour. Arabia is the other place that cones to mind. Right beside Europe. Of course, Islam will have to be brought into the project. But yeah, I see a limited tenure for China.
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