[Pops]

trump got elected bashing them but wouldn't get the sheets changed and greens mowed without them.

what a lame pro-immigrant argument. Can't you do better?

It isn't pro-immigrant, it's pro fact. Both that trump hires immigrants and that services in general rely on their cheap labor— again, they are 17% of the workforce. But I'm sure that won't affect your pitiful replacement theory Qanon paranoia, reality never does.

As far as being for or against immigration, I feel like there are way too many people here already. I'd be happy with closed borders and economic shrinkage to preserve the resources we have.

[JuanP]

As far as being for or against immigration, I feel like there are way too many people here already. I'd be happy with closed borders and economic shrinkage to preserve the resources we have.

Absolutely! And I say this as an immigrant. Many people, including immigrants, feel the same way. It is NOT AT ALL in Americans' best interest to keep allowing the current level of immigration. Pops' position on this subject is extremely reasonable.

By the way, I don't know how many of you are aware of this, but Cuban immigration has been at an all-time high in the past 12 months, it is even higher than during the Mariel boatlift. I was talking about this with 3 Cubans yesterday, and we all agreed that this is NOT in the USA's best interest. We agreed on this in spite of the fact that we all sympathized deeply with their circumstances.

[mousepad]

trump got elected bashing them but wouldn't get the sheets changed and greens mowed without them.

what a lame pro-immigrant argument. Can't you do better?

It isn't pro-immigrant, it's pro fact. Both that trump hires immigrants and that services in general rely on their cheap labor— again, they are 17% of the workforce. But I'm sure that won't affect your pitiful replacement theory Qanon paranoia, reality never does.

Again, lame argument. Can you do better?
I can very well be against mass immigration for various reason. And yet I can at the same time still hire immigrants for various other reason, including the fact that no others are available anymore. I live in this society so I have to play the game, whether I like the society or not.

Your über-lame argument that without immigrants nothing would get done is straight out of demcrats pro-import playbook. Try to do better than just swallow what AOC coughs up.

[Pops]

including the fact that no others are available anymore.

You want so much to get a rise out of me to feed your obviously wilted little ego, that you make my point blindly never realising.

That there ain't no others available no more is the point, just as I said initially. It's why immigrants are such a big part of the workforce, they've been allowed in for business to profit from since forever. To drain every penny from labor you hire illegals because there aren't enough kids who will take minimum wage—or less for cash—because there just aren't as many kids as there once were.

That you are forced to hire immigrants IS my point. That you are butt-hurt about it "for various reasons" is on you.

Repubs have always had nativists tho. They just kept them bottled up because Rs were the party of big business. With globalisation, cheap American labor was not as important to big business and not at all to NASDQ companies. Along came trump who played the nationalists to a T. So now pity the poor nativist who must hire illegals to make a buck.

This is a pretty good article I found, for the 1 or 2 of you that might be interested in something other than trolling:

A major reason for the business community’s fading support for immigration has been America’s increased openness to trade and competition from the developing world. During the last era of mass migration to the United States, in the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries, many manufacturing industries were protected by tariffs. And as these industries expanded, companies increasingly hired immigrants to help keep wage costs low. Encouraging immigration was simply good for the bottom line.

[Plantagenet]

. It's why immigrants are such a big part of the workforce, they've been allowed in for business to profit from since forever. ....

In normal times you'd be right, Pops.

But these aren't normal times.

There is a great deal of economic data showing the US economy is suffering from massive inflation which in turn has motivated the FED to raise interest rates. The FED is going raise interest rates enough to force the economy into recession, and in a recession millions of people typically lose their jobs. When millions of US citizens are out of work, its not a good idea to be admitting millions of illegal aliens and throw them into the job pool with US citizens to compete for whatever jobs still need workers.

In addition to the blame Biden and his policies bear for igniting inflation and taking the economy to the point that it is now entering recession, I'm afraid Biden is making another huge mistake by opening the southern border and letting millions of mostly poorly educated unskilled immigrants into the USA at the exact same time the US is likely on the verge of huge job losses due to recession.


Dear Ms. US Citizen.....Don't worry if you lose your job in the Biden recession.....I'm sure no employer would dream of hiring an illegal worker and paying them half the wages he'd have to pay to hire you back.

Cheers!

[Pops]

and in a recession millions of people typically lose their jobs. When millions of US citizens are out of work, its not a good idea to be admitting millions of illegal aliens and throw them into the job pool with US citizens to compete for whatever jobs still need workers.

Think about it plant, immigrants come here to work, only sporadically raping defenseless white girls. In a recession they can simply go back home. Hre from last time...
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front ... migration/

[Tanada]

and in a recession millions of people typically lose their jobs. When millions of US citizens are out of work, its not a good idea to be admitting millions of illegal aliens and throw them into the job pool with US citizens to compete for whatever jobs still need workers.

Think about it plant, immigrants come here to work, only sporadically raping defenseless white girls. In a recession they can simply go back home. Hre from last time...
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front ... migration/

Actually most of the rapes are committed against defenseless Hispanic girls, often themselves illegal immigrants. I have as much compassion for Hispanic victims as I do for European American victims Pops, as would any person of decent social outlook IMO.

Hispanics experienced 11 percent of all violent crimes committed against U.S. residents during 2000, about the same per capita rate of victimization as experienced by white residents and about 18 percent lower than black residents. Hispanics 12 years old and older were the victims of an estimated 690,470 rapes, sexual assaults, robberies and simple and aggravated assaults that year.

Bureau of Justice Statistics

[JuanP]

Think about it plant, immigrants come here to work, only sporadically raping defenseless white girls.

Most rapes are intraracial, not interracial. Hispanic men mostly rape Hispanic women, white men mostly rape white women, black men mostly rape black women, etc. This is because most women get raped by men they know, many by their own relatives, including husbands, fathers, brothers, cousins, uncles, etc. The statistics about this are indisputable. It is the same all over the world.

[C8]

Think about it plant, immigrants come here to work, only sporadically raping defenseless white girls.

Most rapes are intraracial, not interracial. Hispanic men mostly rape Hispanic women, white men mostly rape white women, black men mostly rape black women, etc. This is because most women get raped by men they know, many by their own relatives, including husbands, fathers, brothers, cousins, uncles, etc. The statistics about this are indisputable. It is the same all over the world.

This is totally true. However, it should be noted that the interracial rape ratios, while smaller, are very lopsided. The FBI publishes reports on this in unified crime stats. here is an example from 2008 I think

For 2008, rape is a crime that is totally black on white with 19,292 white women reporting being raped by blacks and NO black women reporting being raped by whites

Rape (Dept. Justice table 42 page 55)

Rape/sexual assault:
White victim raw numbers 117,640 race of offender: 74.9 (white) 16.4 (black)
Black victim raw numbers 46,580 race of offender: 0.0 (white) 74.8 (black)

See the whole report here (which will explain the math)

https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/cvus08.pdf

Imagine if that race ratio was reversed- how much would we hear about it on the news?

[Plantagenet]

...... immigrants come here to work, only sporadically raping defenseless white girls.

Yo Pops

Please keep your racist comments to yourself.

Cheers!

[JuanP]

Think about it plant, immigrants come here to work, only sporadically raping defenseless white girls.

Most rapes are intraracial, not interracial. Hispanic men mostly rape Hispanic women, white men mostly rape white women, black men mostly rape black women, etc. This is because most women get raped by men they know, many by their own relatives, including husbands, fathers, brothers, cousins, uncles, etc. The statistics about this are indisputable. It is the same all over the world.

This is totally true. However, it should be noted that the interracial rape ratios, while smaller, are very lopsided. The FBI publishes reports on this in unified crime stats. here is an example from 2008 I think

For 2008, rape is a crime that is totally black on white with 19,292 white women reporting being raped by blacks and NO black women reporting being raped by whites

Rape (Dept. Justice table 42 page 55)

Rape/sexual assault:
White victim raw numbers 117,640 race of offender: 74.9 (white) 16.4 (black)
Black victim raw numbers 46,580 race of offender: 0.0 (white) 74.8 (black)

See the whole report here (which will explain the math)

https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/cvus08.pdf

Imagine if that race ratio was reversed- how much would we hear about it on the news?

Thanks for the data, C8! I was too lazy to look it up!

[Pops]

Puuuleeese! Spare me.

No amount of crocodile tears or mock-concern will change the facts and deflect shame for electing the grossest racist in 100 years to our highest office. "Thoughts and prayers" for hispanic girls absolves no one who would vote for such a poor excuse for a human and shame our entire nation, let alone perpetuate the torture of tens of thousands of hispanic DACA girls, separate mothers from babies, keep girls in cages and the rest.

To clarify, as if none of you know, that was a dig at the anti-immigrant racists whose past and future racist candidate stroked and stoked their racism from day one at the bottom of the golden escalator and has become a white christian cult hero because of that one line. Do you want me to research the exact quote, since we're quoting evidence? Or can you imagine to whom I'm referring?

Attacking me as a racist to assuage your guilt is perfect example of the infantile blame-shifting "I'm rubber, you're glue" pseudo-argument popularized by trump and the rest of the know-nothings. Anti-immigrant fervor —fever— is the basest reactionary impulse, pretending to talk about it as if it is simply economic policy is a farce.

You want to know the catalyst for collapse? Look no further
.

[Nefarious]

You have a lot of hate inside you. Need to let that shit go.
If you are a typical democrat and you have that much hatred for the right and if the typical republican has just an equal amount of hatred for the left. You sir are correct. You don't have to look any further for a catalyst for collapse.

[JuanP]

Most Americans on both sides of the aisle need look no further than their own reflections on a mirror for the catalyst to collapse in American society.

What was it that Pogo said?

[Plantagenet]

You're exactly right on that, JuanP. There are many reasons for social discord and economic problems in the USA and they start with the fractious nature of Americans themselves. In the USA we've got millions of people who apparently don't agree on anything, and will take the the opposite side in an argument no matter how illogical or dishonest it is, just so they keep opposing their "enemies" in the other party.

On the other hand, the current social and economic problems in Russia can all be traced to the crazy decisions of just one person.....the mad dictator Adolph Putin.

Thats one of the fundamental differences between a dictatorship and a democracy.......in a dictatorship all it takes is one egomaniacal lunatic gaining power.....like a Stalin, a Mao, A Mussolini, a Hitler or a Putin.....and that one crazy man can make bad decisions and order his bad decisions to be carried out by the state no matter how stupid or disastrous those decisions are....its a big flaw in dictatorships like Russia that the glorious leader...even if he's gone off his nut...... can single-handedly start wars or implement crazy policies that lead to economic collapse. Take Putin for example.....his crazy decision to invade Ukraine is disrupting global food supply.......we may soon see famine and economic collapse in much of Africa entirely because of Putin. And if Putin carries through on his threats to start a nuclear war then the whole world may be pitched into economic collapse.


Putin is the 'great dictator" of Russia.......and he can singlehandedly be the catalyst for economic collapse in Russia and even the rest of the world. Already Putin's blockade of grain shipments from Ukraine is threatening global food supplies.

Cheers!

[Plantagenet]

Attacking me as a racist....

Get a grip on yourself.

No one attacked you because you made a racist post.

I just very politely asked you to stop making such racist posts.

They don't contribute anything useful to the discussions here.

Thanks again.

Cheers!

[Doly]

As far as being for or against immigration, I feel like there are way too many people here already. I'd be happy with closed borders and economic shrinkage to preserve the resources we have.

And what would you do about the fact that it's much harder to pay American citizens less than the minimum wage than it is to do the same to illegal immigrants? It's an ugly fact that a lot of American companies, especially in the agriculture and farming sectors, depend on illegal immigrants for their business model.

[vtsnowedin]

I'm fine with immigration as long as we get to decide who gets in. Farm worker in (and paid minimum wage) and drug dealer out. Nurse in , Gang member out. Scientist in felon out.

[AdamB]

I'm fine with immigration as long as we get to decide who gets in. Farm worker in (and paid minimum wage) and drug dealer out. Nurse in , Gang member out. Scientist in felon out.

We've had fine immigration rules overseen by FedCo to make sure just this happens for like....decades now? A century?

Be nice to think that the people that haven't been able to get it done for as long as most of us have been alive finally will. Wishful thinking probably.

[mousepad]

including the fact that no others are available anymore.

You want so much to get a rise out of me to feed your obviously wilted little ego, that you make my point blindly never realising.

Why not stop the petty insults?

Let's start again with your lame comment.

trump got elected bashing them but wouldn't get the sheets changed and greens mowed without them.

You appear to suggest that if you hire immigrants you are not allowed to be anti-immigrant. Those 2 things are not mutually exclusive. In many cases you don't have a choice anymore in hiring. Besides, hiring based on skin color is illegal.
Only big companies and state institutions apparently can get away with racist hiring practices, they call it affirmative actions.

I'm anti-immigrant. Yet when my high tech business posts a new engineering job, out of 10 resumes received, 4 are chinese, 3 are indian, 2 are mid-east, 1 is european. Besides being illegal, I can't afford to be selective based on race and only take europeans. I have to hire the best of the best. Yet, that doesn't mean I also have to be pro-immigrant.

That you are butt-hurt about it "for various reasons" is on you.

Of course it's on me. That doesn't make it less valid.
Just the same way as you apparently find joy in white girls being raped (sick in my opinion), I have other reasons and other joys. I have the same rights to be heard with my concerns, reasons, fears and emotions as you do.