[Pops]

Maybe, that's 150w peak power, not good for much.

You can get a 12v deep cycle battery, 100Ah for $175 at Wally's and a $30 trickle charger, then recharge it in the car on the way to work.

If you have cordless tools you can get a USB adapter.

Ghung told me once to make everything one battery size. I have a buttload of AAs that run all sorts of stuff. But also lots of ways to get between a/c & d/c, from AA to 12v to 18v (dewalt) to 120v, USB chargers blah.

Simplest solution are these solar path lights for $40

[Newfie]

Let us get things straight . If the grid is down long time ,nothing is going to save you ,inverters,batteries ,solar panels,wind farms ,Mr Musk and his crap . Then society is going to be FUBAR . Keep your fingers crossed and pray like hell this does not happen ,because if it does the party ends .

^1+

[Newfie]

For a start get a Honda EU2200 and a keep some gas on hand, gas treated with Stabil.

Next get a diesel generator especially if you hear with oil. Or a propane generator if you have large propane capacity.

But FIRST convert entirely to LED lighting. Also segment your hearing so you don’t have to heat the whole house. Have a retreat plan.

Cali likely isn’t dealing with freezing pipes if the power goes out. Now try doing that stuff in Michigan in January and you will have revolt in a heartbeat.

There are so many variables it’s really difficult to discuss.

We live on 4 GC batteries because we don’t need heat or AC, and have constant wind and sunny weather. Our biggest draw at anchor is the reefer, not uncommon. Still every once in a while I have to run the genny to charge up again.

Living in mid latitudes is energy intensive. People living above 40°N/S are killing the Earth.

[EnergyUnlimited]

Let us get things straight . If the grid is down long time ,nothing is going to save you ,inverters,batteries ,solar panels,wind farms ,Mr Musk and his crap . Then society is going to be FUBAR . Keep your fingers crossed and pray like hell this does not happen ,because if it does the party ends .

Machete may save you in such circumstances but it can kill you too.
Get one now and learn how to use it.
Fatal error of Tutsi's: Failure to learn an art of handling machete good enough.

[GHung]

Maybe, that's 150w peak power, not good for much.

You can get a 12v deep cycle battery, 100Ah for $175 at Wally's and a $30 trickle charger, then recharge it in the car on the way to work.

If you have cordless tools you can get a USB adapter.

Ghung told me once to make everything one battery size. I have a buttload of AAs that run all sorts of stuff. But also lots of ways to get between a/c & d/c, from AA to 12v to 18v (dewalt) to 120v, USB chargers blah.

Simplest solution are these solar path lights for $40

Stay away from the Walmart deep cycle batteries. They have a short shelf life. Two Trojan T-105 6 volt golf cart batteries can be had for about $250 with a combined storage of about 200 amp hours at 12 volts and they last much longer, especially with occasional use. Add an inverter/charger that will automatically charge the batteries when power is available and they will stay charged and healthy. A good one like the Outback Power VFXR2812 2800W Inverter/Charger (http://sunelec.com/shop/inverters/off-g ... r-charger/) is about $1750 and has a generator input as well as a regular AC input with an automatic transfer switch built in. Will provide 2800 watts of true sine-wave power continuous. Hook in a small generator and/or PV panels for recharging batteries while the grid is down.
This is basically a whole-house UPS. I would prefer this over a whole-house generator since you would only need to run the smaller charging generator for a few hours per day to recharge the batteries during an extended outage, and it would likely be cheaper. Hook it to a simple manual transfer switch at your main panel. I've built several of these for folks I know. Great for medical patients that need uninterrupted power......

Or just get a cheap generator from Harbor Freight and stay stocked up on stabilized gasoline. These are great for the price: https://www.harborfreight.com/engines-g ... 63584.html They go on sale a couple of times a year. Just make sure to run and maintain them regularly. Have an electrician install the proper transfer switch to hook them to your whole house,, and chain them up so your jealous neighbor doesn't steal your mojo.

[phaster]

Aside from reading about the forced blackout in NorCal, just read an articles about the same thing happening down here in SoCal,… as well as

The climate risk you may not be thinking about
https://www.mckinsey.com/mgi/overview/i ... king-about

Actually have been wondering for awhile, if others have considered the possibility of the failure of the economic/finance system failing thus hindering organized society from building various large scale infrastructure needed for people to deal w/ various symptoms of climate change???

The reason I ask this question is because down here in San Diego for three plus decades has given away an optional 13th pension payment which is a move I'm 99.9999% certain isn't the way a portfolio manager w/ a fiduciary duty to watch taxpayers money, would even consider in the first place,… what follows is redirect to a PDF on GoogleDocs of a highlighted front page newspaper article where I show lots of basic math mistakes which over time are taxpayer debt obligations

www.TinyURL.com/13thcheck

AND actually the problem is fractal,… in other words the same pattern of public pension debt obligations are being built up at the state and national levels

www.TinyURL.com/InvestorWarning

FYI the unfunded debt obligations for the state of CA is about a TRILLION (estimated by a group at Stanford University)

http://www.pensiontracker.org

To get an idea of the perfect storm of which I see as a vary real possibility, watch news reports about living conditions in a failed economic system (Venezuela for example),

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGbPr2Hxa2E

Now imagine if that country had to build large scale infrastructure in a short time period in order to survive,... basically w/ out a smooth running economy the task of building various large scale infrastructure seems like it would be all but impossible

Thoughts?

[Pops]

Stay away from the Walmart deep cycle batteries. They have a short shelf life.

Really? mine are 5 years and seem fine. what's long life and what can be expected from mine?

Actually have been wondering for awhile, if others have considered the possibility of the failure of the economic/finance system failing thus hindering organized society from building various large scale infrastructure needed for people to deal w/ various symptoms of climate change???

The very first post I made here asked the very question, how much time to prepare before the cost is too high?
PO was my main thing then, GW was secondary although I did research it as much as possible in 2004-5 before I bugged from CA. As extraction becomes more complicated and expensive and depletion continues 24/7 I still think shark-fin PO and its economic effects are the nearer threat. Tho I admit the about-face of the US on GW the last couple of years has made me more worried.

You're right, at some point we might be overwhelmed by a confluence of just this type of unexpected effect — along with the expected. And nothing rules out that happening in conjunction with PO.

[Newfie]

Phaster,

For quite a while I have felt that the most likely cause of our collapse will be the downfall of the global economic system.

Don’t know when, could be sudden.

2¢

[GHung]

Phaster,

For quite a while I have felt that the most likely cause of our collapse will be the downfall of the global economic system.

Don’t know when, could be sudden.

2¢

Death by a thousand cuts <==> All of the above and more.
Your schedule will vary. Whether the primary cause is deemed to be economic, climatological, or political, the big shitsky will be sociological. We are already seeing this with so many people stubbornly willing to support lunatics like Trump and believing whatever makes the least sense as long as they don't have to face the reality that the ultimate cause is their own behavior.
Viability of society requires stability of underlying systems. Virtually all of our systems are in decline.

4¢, for what it's worth.

[Newfie]

I completely agree. I would add that our financial systems are built on trust and that at some point that trust will run out. And when it does it is likely to be a rapid relish for the exit. If you recall that is essentially what occurred in 2098, but they were able to shore up the trust, that time. They may or may not be able to do it once again. Eventually the answer will be “no” and we will take a big hit. How big and foe how long and when are all open questions to which I have no answer.

I think trust in our “system” is a very important concept. It is trust in our TPTB to keep the system going that more or less keeps the system going. Being able to click the switch and get power is now complete taken for granted. These power outages will be a wake up call for some.

I doubt this will be a significant issue as it is pretty localized. But the effects will be interesting. I wonder how many psychologist are studying the sociological effects and if we will see the results.

[EnergyUnlimited]

Phaster,

For quite a while I have felt that the most likely cause of our collapse will be the downfall of the global economic system.

Don’t know when, could be sudden.

2¢

Yes, perhaps aggrevated by climate change.

[EnergyUnlimited]

We are already seeing this with so many people stubbornly willing to support lunatics like Trump and believing whatever makes the least sense as long as they don't have to face the reality that the ultimate cause is their own behavior.
Viability of society requires stability of underlying systems. Virtually all of our systems are in decline.

Whichever politician one will support these days (at least on the West), it will be a lunatic.
So one may support lunatic or abstain from voting but future will be the same.

Many people here might be confusing collapse of the West with collapse of the world.
But world can and will exist without the West or with "thirdworlded" West.
Collapse of one society is an opportunity for success of others and West have already passed its sell by date.

[GHung]

...............

Many people here might be confusing collapse of the West with collapse of the world.
But world can and will exist without the West or with "thirdworlded" West.
..........

Yes,, the rest of the world is immune to the effects of climate change, global resource depletion, and environmental degradation. They'll all get along just famously.
Good to know. I'm moving to S. Sudan.

[ozcad]

Just now I read this thread a couple of pages back and noticed once again how people in the U.S. seem to strongly side with the left or right side of politics.
No philosophy is applicable in all situations.
How long would it take to get somewhere important by only turning left, or only turning right?
I am inclined to think a flexible mixture of solutions, and the ability to accept same would be the go.

[Pops]

Back in the 80s I built a house in the Sierra foothills in the area of the blackouts. I designed it around 3 big black oaks and a few huge boulders and was very proud. But it is exactly the problem: as far from the road as possible, redwood siding, asphalt roofing, surrounded by woods and scrub.

We recently rehabed a house in Sonora, a goldrush era town in the same area. We struggled to get insurance because CalFire won't respond to fires within city limits (or something). The foothill woods and grassland have always been tinder dry this time of year. The standing dead pines are new, now firebombs waiting to happen but the problem is more and more people. You can clear scrub and trees and sweep the forest back a mile but embers fly farther.

This is how things will go for a while. Eventually insurance cos will simply not insure property that is indefensible. Whether from fire, sea level, flooding, whatever: larger and larger areas will be deemed uninsurable and owners will have to weight the scenic benefit against the risk

.

[jedrider]

Just now I read this thread a couple of pages back and noticed once again how people in the U.S. seem to strongly side with the left or right side of politics.
No philosophy is applicable in all situations.
How long would it take to get somewhere important by only turning left, or only turning right?
I am inclined to think a flexible mixture of solutions, and the ability to accept same would be the go.

Only two sides here: Right and Not-Right.

[Pops]

Actually have been wondering for awhile, if others have considered the possibility of the failure of the economic/finance system failing thus hindering organized society from building various large scale infrastructure needed for people to deal w/ various symptoms of climate change???

Or even rebuilding from GW induced disasters. Insurance companies are one of the largest stores of assets, kind of a canary in the resiliency coal mine. Remember AIG was the canary in the real estate boondoggle of '09. Not sure if this increase is real or a result of increased population, wealth, or actual damage...

[Newfie]

Munich RE and Lloyd’s have both taken strong CC positions.

[GHung]

Just now I read this thread a couple of pages back and noticed once again how people in the U.S. seem to strongly side with the left or right side of politics.
No philosophy is applicable in all situations.
How long would it take to get somewhere important by only turning left, or only turning right?
I am inclined to think a flexible mixture of solutions, and the ability to accept same would be the go.

Only two sides here: Right and Not-Right.

Only two sides here: Lazy binary non-thinkers incapable of producing any original ideas, and critical thinkers who understand they don't know everything.

[Newfie]

Yes, applying your thoughts to the process is quite out of vogue. The media, of both stripes, is in full blown propaganda mode trying to influence the herd.

I’m strongly including Ned to see this as a religious conflict where my mythical belief requires I crush your mythical belief.

None the less I see more and more folks choosing sides rather than taking a more thoughtful posture. Not a very happy sight.