[FLAMEOUT]

Rockdoc, read up about the Barrett formula - the way Scotland (Northern Ireland and Wales also) is financed by (basically) English taxpayers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barnett_formula

Free university tuition in Scotland (£9250 / year in England), free NHS drug prescriptions (£9 each item here in England). Yes they can get "things" from elsewhere - but things have to be paid for.

I'll give an independent Scotland five years (or less) before it would be bankrupt - that's why they wish to remain in the EU and suck on that particular teat.

Oil & Gas ? - History. or will be soon if Greeta gets her way. Not much left anyway - The salad days have gone.

I'm not a Scot hater in any way, I quite like visiting there (I live just 100 miles south of the border) - but I am a realist, as are most canny Scottish folk.

[evilgenius]

I find it surprising, or I supposes I should find it surprising, that people with Corbyn's views always say that they come in favor of the people, but they are usually rude or downright mean to particular people along the way. They tend to say that they do that because they are after a greater goal, and that's how they have to behave to pull it off. I think a person who behaves that way as a manager of a business, soon won't have a business.

[FLAMEOUT]

The Labour lefty leaders don't disagree with those that don't share their views, they hate them.

They hate the Tories, they hate Israel, they hate capitalists, they hate Trump , they hate the West and NATO.

But they lost this election because the northern working class didn't vote for them, and the working class are the one group that Labour find it difficult to openly demonise.

All very funny really.

[rockdoc123]

Rockdoc, read up about the Barrett formula - the way Scotland (Northern Ireland and Wales also) is financed by (basically) English taxpayers.

I am familiar with the Barrett formula but what is outright ignored is the huge transfer of wealth from Scotland to England over the years via taxation. Scotlands revenues aren't furnished somehow by English taxpayers ….the taxes have come from Scotland and then are redistributed, they are in essence funding themselves. If Scotland were a sovereign country the offshore rights would be described by a line drawn parallel to the border offshore into international waters. That would, in effect give Scotland 93% of oil and gas pools ever discovered and currently producing. This is significant as in 2009 UK revenues from oil and gas were 11 billion although they are currently down to 2 billion largely a product of oil prices and higher tax-deductible expenditures. What those revenues will be in the future is a product of what oil prices will be and predicting that is a mugs game. Any agreement for total transfer of rights would require the UK to assume the vast majority of abandonment costs (being a historical obligation) which would make Scottish profits from the remaining reserves healthier. As well the Scottish Midlands contains Carboniferous source rocks that are very attractive targets for unconventional gas and liquids. The geologic survey estimated as much as 135 TCF of gas and 11 billion bbls of liquids in place which is nothing to sneeze at. With Scotland controlling its own rules around fracking and having 100% access to royalties and taxes you would likely see less stalling in activity than has been witnessed south of the border.
The point that the SNP has made for years is if Scotland paid no taxes to the UK and held all of the oil and gas revenues they would easily have a surplus budget funded largely by their other industries. From 1980 through 2012 Scotland arguably paid more in taxes into the total UK coffers than Britain as a whole and over the past five years Scotland is in a stronger fiscal position than UK as a whole by about 12.6 billion quid. They were hardly “sucking on the teat” of the UK given so much of the revenue historically has come from oil. The other argument that is made by SNP and becomes very relevant with regards to Brexit is that one of the reasons for staying in a greater UK was access to traditional European trading partners. That trade relationship was arguably strengthened through the UK joining the EU and now with Brexit that advantage is all lost, one of the reasons why most of Scotland voted to stay in the EU. Given much of Scotlands trade in goods is with the EU they see this as a serious setback. Add to that the failure by the Cameron government to give Scotland more powers (as they pledged) and you have a lot more disgruntled SNP followers which is why a Scottish independence referendum vote held now will possibly give a much different result than the first one.
Again I have no direct skin in the game anymore other than a number of relatives still living there. But I commiserate with the situation as it has similarities with the situation in Canada.
I suspect those in England won't be happy when they find egregious tariffs attached to Walkers biscuits (enjoying a shortbread with my tea as I write this) and litres of Glenlivet/Bowmore/Strathlisa etc.

[Outcast_Searcher]

Oil & Gas ? - History. or will be soon if Greeta gets her way. Not much left anyway - The salad days have gone.

Dream on.
Being innunerate doesn't mean things like math, physics, economics, etc. don't exist. Just the scale of the transformation makes the idea of getting rid of oil and gas in 5 years COMPLETELY nonsensical.

It will take at least a few decades (probably more) to transform to a largely green society making (to a large extent, anyway) fossil fuels, led by oil and gas obsolete. And of course, claiming "not much left" is just to ignore huge amounts of data and observations.

Do you also claim the earth is flat because, at a glance, it sometimes seems that way?

Naturally, that means lots of expensive and difficult active CO2 mitigation (ironically, taking lots of energy) will be needed to prevent AGW disaster, and we may or may not be up to the task of dealing with that without huge loss of human population.

But realizing that and planning for it makes far more sense than mouthing wishes and tropes (like the endless peak oiler nonsense that not much oil or gas is left) or that "Greeta [sic] gets her way", and making very bad decisions based on nonsense.

For example, the IEA and EIA don't do a great job of forecasting prices, but they clearly show that there are HUGE amounts of fossil fuels which will be utilized in the coming 30ish years, under a variety of economic circumstances. And they have people making the forecasts who actually know what they are talking about.

[FLAMEOUT]

Touchy lot aren't you ? - Have I wrote I support Greeta anywhere ? - I have not and do not.

Though many do, too many.

As to Scotland, we will see. A lot of oil & gas also located in the English southern North sea Roc (mainly gas), though these fields are past peak.

And are not the oil and gas companies responsible for decommissioning & clean up ?

I hope you Yanks do not start stirring the nationalistic shit over Scotland like some of you patently did with Ireland and the IRA years ago. A (small) black mark for (some) Americans amongst many Brits.

Can't stand Scotch Whiskey but I love a pint of Irish Guinness !!!!

[Newfie]

For you guys who love to argue. FE it you may find this thread elsewhere amusing. They are at it hot and heavy over there.

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f17 ... 27699.html

[rockdoc123]

As to Scotland, we will see. A lot of oil & gas also located in the English southern North sea Roc (mainly gas), though these fields are past peak.

as I said if you draw the line into offshore parallel to the border over 90% of all producing and previously producing fields sit in what would be Scottish territory. Of the big ones, an exception would be Wytch Farm.

And are not the oil and gas companies responsible for decommissioning & clean up ?

yes but it affects revenues through taxes (its a cost that is written off which is pertinent where a sinking fund exists) and for those fields where there isn't a sinking fund in place the gov't would necessarily have to step up if a company declared bankruptcy. The calculation will be complex for sure but possibly positive for a separated Scotland that would be looking at revenues forward. Obviously a point for negotiation.

I hope you Yanks do not start stirring the nationalistic shit over Scotland like some of you patently did with Ireland and the IRA years ago. A (small) black mark for (some) Americans amongst many Brits.

I'm by no means a "Yank". A Scot transplanted to Canada which is still a member of the Commonwealth. The support of IRA by a very small group of second or third-generation Irish- Americans was ill-advised but my guess is they grew up with their parent's stories of how the English had treated them poorly over the years. Remember that the Irish in America were there for a reason, partly a climatic issue but that was exacerbated by the landholders which were largely English if I remember my history correctly. And as an aside Martin McGuiness the former leader of Sinn Fein pointed out that the IRA never attacked Scotland during the troubles as they saw them as having suffered similarly over the years. So for all the desire to use the term British...in this case it was more English.

Can't stand Scotch Whiskey

Ah there you go, explains it all, a typical numpty Englishman talking mince!

[Cog]

As if us Yanks don't know something about whiskey ourselves. Bourbon Whiskey is for men of breeding and the back of my hand to that swill produced in Scotland.

[dissident]

Looks like the "left" in the UK has gone full retard like it has in the USA. Election results they don't like are to be ignored. Triumph des Willens seems to be their "new" ideology.

https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2019/1 ... -election/

[Newfie]

Brexit explained.

[rockdoc123]

Bourbon Whiskey is for men of breeding and the back of my hand to that swill produced in Scotland.

ah your bums oot tha windae, just more Yankee naff!
Scottish Whiskey or uisge-beatha (translation: water of life) officially first showed up around 1300 in Scotland (about the same time distilled spirits of a similar variety appeared in Northern Ireland and became the well known Irish whiskey). Bourbon, on the other hand, didn't show up until 400 years later in the southern US. No doubt thanks to the offspring of industrious Scottish immigrants who escaped the clearances and the fact that all that time in America had destroyed people's sense of taste!

Brexit explained.

I can tell from the can that is Heinz beans British style! No molasses, just tomatoes and no spice.

If Scotland and Wales hang around you could add Black Pudding, Haggis, smoked kippers, fin and haddy etc. Doesn't make it any better I'm afraid! OH, and I'll have some chups with all of that Jimmy!

[FLAMEOUT]

[rockdoc123]

Nicola has better hair though!

Honestly, though there are probably a lot of folks Lancashire northwards who would love to have the work!!

[FLAMEOUT]

Italian bricklayers are better !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[careinke]

Brexit, another blow to globalism.

[dolanbaker]

To keep the Scots out! :D
Anyway, it's in the wrong place, that border has moved a few times since the Romans built that wall

[dissident]

https://twitter.com/RealDannyTommo/stat ... 2972064768

Hysterical, self-righteous zeal. No tolerance for dissent whatsoever.

[Zarquon]

https://www.thesudburystar.com/opinion/ ... 62b913c56a

This guy seems to be one of the few sane voices in journalism today:

English turkeys vote for Christmas

Down on the turkey farm, the Scottish and Irish birds noticed the smiling man was holding a hatchet behind his back, and hid. The Welsh turkeys looked confused and huddled together squawking. But the English turkeys marched bravely up to the chopping block, confident this would be a Christmas to remember.

Boris Johnson’s big victory in Thursday’s “Brexit election” was achieved almost entirely with English votes. Only 20 of the 364 seats won by the Conservative Party were in the other three nations of the United Kingdom.

The United Kingdom will continue to be called that for several years, but this election has sounded its death knell. It was the votes of English nationalists who gave Johnson his victory, and they don’t really care if the U.K. survives. Just as well, because it won’t.

The English have been nationalists for around five centuries, but they were also content to share a broader British identity so long as it gave them bragging rights as the world’s biggest empire. Once that was gone, a specifically English nationalism was bound to resurface eventually.

The resurgence of nationalism in Scotland and Wales was also inevitable, and in Northern Ireland it has never gone away. All those nationalisms largely defined themselves by challenging the domination of the English majority (83 per cent) in the U.K., but English nationalists obviously needed a bigger opponent to push against. They found it, inevitably, in the European Union.

Three-fifths of Conservative party members now believe the breakup of the U.K. would be an acceptable price to pay for leaving the EU. A smaller majority would even accept the demise of their own party if that were the price of leaving.

This unhinged English nationalism will hasten the departure of Scotland from the U.K. Scotland will leave to get away from the English crazies and stay in the EU, its path to the latter goal made easier because in 2017 Spain withdrew its longstanding threat to veto Scottish EU membership. A second and successful Scottish independence referendum is probably only two years away.

This election also revealed a majority for Remain in Northern Ireland, and the shortest route to that goal would be via union with the Republic of Ireland, an EU member.

That risks reigniting “the Troubles” that ended 20 years ago, but the Protestant loyalists have been betrayed and abandoned by Johnson, so it might work. All the options are dangerous, and this one not necessarily more so than others.

As for Wales, it will unenthusiastically stick with England. After 600 years of being governed from London, it has got used to it.

And what about England’s future? It will formally leave the EU by the end of January, but this is just the start of the negotiation of a trade agreement with the EU. That would normally take years, but Johnson swears he will end the negotiation with or without a trade deal by the end of 2020.

Maybe he’s bluffing again: he didn’t die in a ditch the last time he promised to do so if he didn’t get a deal in time. Besides, crashing out without a deal would be catastrophic for the British economy: half of all U.K. trade is with the EU. So many people think Johnson will make another sweetheart deal with the EU to save his skin, just like he did last October.

Not necessarily. Johnson pretends to be an amiable, scatterbrained clown, but he is a highly skilled political operator with close ties to hard-right British and American ideologues. If he shares their goal of opening the British economy up for asset-stripping, then crashing out is a way to achieve that goal.

On the other hand, Johnson is a man without fixed principles or ideology. His sole goal is the acquisition and retention of personal power, and that might require him to pay attention to the interests of the disillusioned and deluded former Labour voters who gave him this victory. He may not dismantle the British welfare state as far and as fast as his backers expect.

Don’t ask me which way he will jump. He probably doesn’t know that himself yet.

Worth reading:
http://gwynnedyer.com/archives/

[FLAMEOUT]

Boris is the most powerful leader in Europe.

He has the country behind him, a massive parliamentary majority and a clear and unequivocal mandate to leave the suffocating clutches of the EU.

The EU know it, Varadkar knows it, the rump of the opposition in this country know it. The EU should never have colluded with the remainer MPs in this country. The EU should never have treated Theresa May our former Prime Minister with such contempt and they should never have underestimated the quiet strength of the British.

We don’t like being told our votes were not going to enacted. We don’t like being bullied.

All of the the EU and Labour, LIb dem, SNP they can do nothing now. Power drained from them in one glorious moment, when the exit poll dropped at 22:00 on 12.12.19. They all reap what they have sown. Karma is beautiful to watch.