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Billionaires = Leading Cause of CC

Re: Billionaires = Leading Cause of CC

Unread postby Ibon » Mon 17 Dec 2018, 19:45:35

Google Earth image of our resort. First image is close up where you can see all the cabins and lodge. 2nd pic is pulled back where you see the resort in the lower left and Mount Totumas and a small section of La Amistad National Park in the upper right.

The 3rd image is from Google Earth 2004 around when we bought the land. Before we reforested. Look at the stark and bleak over grazed cow pastures.


Image


Image

Image
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Re: Billionaires = Leading Cause of CC

Unread postby onlooker » Mon 17 Dec 2018, 20:51:50

Well, Ibon, just a good example your resort of how us humans can be great stewards of the Earth rather than destroyers
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Re: Billionaires = Leading Cause of CC

Unread postby Cog » Tue 18 Dec 2018, 06:07:54

Yes capitalism reforested the land.
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Re: Billionaires = Leading Cause of CC

Unread postby onlooker » Tue 18 Dec 2018, 10:27:54

Cog wrote:Yes capitalism reforested the land.

No, Capitalism did not. If, that had been the case Ibon, would have either himself or with partners opened a fancy Hotel that would cater to upscale clientele and he would have disregarded efforts and the needed funds to configure and restore this area to an ecofriendly natural habitat condition . That would have allowed him to make maximum profit from that land. By his own omission, this venture was not primarily about profit. And that is surely very non Capitalism :-D
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Re: Billionaires = Leading Cause of CC

Unread postby Cog » Tue 18 Dec 2018, 10:58:16

His eco-friendly habitat is the whole purpose of reforesting it. He benefits from doing so and that is capitalism. I never said he was a great capitalist but he didn't do it for no reason either.
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Re: Billionaires = Leading Cause of CC

Unread postby dohboi » Tue 18 Dec 2018, 11:14:52

All cog can see or imagine is greed, so that's what he sees, no matter what the motive is. Sad, sad little man...or rather, little cog! :)
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Re: Billionaires = Leading Cause of CC

Unread postby Ibon » Tue 18 Dec 2018, 11:57:15

In the checkmate of human overshoot everyone's shit stinks. More on that in a bit when time permits. Thanks all for your comments. I did not read a single comment that did not have some validity by the way. More later.
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Re: Billionaires = Leading Cause of CC

Unread postby Cog » Tue 18 Dec 2018, 12:30:05

dohboi wrote:All cog can see or imagine is greed, so that's what he sees, no matter what the motive is. Sad, sad little man...or rather, little cog! :)


Not every good thing a person does has to be motivated purely by altruism.
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Re: Billionaires = Leading Cause of CC

Unread postby dohboi » Wed 19 Dec 2018, 15:36:22

"everyone's shit stinks"

I know this was supposed to be both metaphorical and an obvious truth, but if we're talking about actual poop here, most vegans find that their shit actually stinks much less, though there is sometimes a stinky transition period on the way there, and of course individual cases can differ.

But also, on the metaphorical side, we need to avoid false equivalence. Because we are pretty much all locked into a system that forces us to participate in the destruction of the natural world, does not mean we are all doing so at the same rate, and some people definitely are doing far, far more harm than others.

But I'll look forward to your always-thoughtful and though-provoking elaboration on this short quip! :)
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Re: Billionaires = Leading Cause of CC

Unread postby careinke » Thu 20 Dec 2018, 02:55:59

KaiserJeep wrote:I have a somewhat different view. I consider the approaching crisis to be a Darwinian opportunity. If your genes are more suited to survive human overshoot, then they will, while those less prepared to cope will perish.

Ibon, note that there has never been anyone in charge of the planet, and I doubt there ever will be. The UN is an example of an organization that exists but ultimately lacks authority, capability, and even the capacity for judgement.

I will take up arms before I let either the Feds or the State rule my life. I believe that the human race as always will live or die as individuals making individual decisions. That is all there is or ever will be.


Oh KJ 8O What an awesome Anarchist statement, I had no idea. :roll: :) Throw in "No use of force except for defense of oneself or another." and you would be a full fledged member.

Always remember Anarchy is not a synonym for Chaos.
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Re: Billionaires = Leading Cause of CC

Unread postby Ibon » Thu 20 Dec 2018, 08:09:31

There are some extremely wealthy individuals who buy up thousands of acres of land to preserve habitat which they then leave as is. I do not have the wealth to preserve habitat without some commercial enterprise associated with the investment. The commercial activity has to be economically sustainable which at the bear minimum means covering the operating expenses of running the place. When compared to what I used to be earning as a corporate executive and business owner in international sales the net profit we are currently generating is paltry but I didn’t come to Panama to focus on profit. Had profit been the only motive here is what would have happened. I would have bribed some local official to rezone the agricultural land as residential, subdivided the flat ridge tops into low density lots. Paid to have utilities brought up the mountain and then sold lots of $ 500,000 and built big McMansion homes for the wealthy 1%. I could have been creative and pushed lot sales with the argument that 1900m above sea level is a secure investment against climate change and whatever flavor of apocalypse the perspective buyer seemed to favor. This is what a rapacious for profit developer would have done. Furthermore he would have promoted the development as “eco” and “socially” responsible by throwing a few bones at the locals, say taking 1% of lot sales for supporting a local school and then preserving a few acres as a “preserve”. The 1% who would have purchased lots and built 4000 square feet homes could have then told all their friends that they are participating in an “eco” and “socially” responsible project.
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Re: Billionaires = Leading Cause of CC

Unread postby GHung » Thu 20 Dec 2018, 10:30:24

KJ said; ...... I will take up arms before I let either the Feds or the State rule my life. I believe that the human race as always will live or die as individuals making individual decisions. That is all there is or ever will be.


What happened to your dream of everyone being a Neural Subnode of the Unimatrix, and all that? You seem quite conflicted about this stuff.
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Re: Billionaires = Leading Cause of CC

Unread postby onlooker » Thu 20 Dec 2018, 11:07:08

GHung wrote:
KJ said; ...... I will take up arms before I let either the Feds or the State rule my life. I believe that the human race as always will live or die as individuals making individual decisions. That is all there is or ever will be.


What happened to your dream of everyone being a Neural Subnode of the Unimatrix, and all that? You seem quite conflicted about this stuff.

Yep, individuality and being assimilated are a contradiction in terms :-D
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Re: Billionaires = Leading Cause of CC

Unread postby dohboi » Thu 20 Dec 2018, 16:08:29

The best way to reduce your personal carbon emissions:

don't be rich


Some lifestyle choices matter more than others.

https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environm ... al-choices
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Re: Billionaires = Leading Cause of CC

Unread postby AdTheNad » Sat 22 Dec 2018, 16:24:41

careinke wrote:Oh KJ 8O What an awesome Anarchist statement, I had no idea. :roll: :) Throw in "No use of force except for defense of oneself or another." and you would be a full fledged member.

Always remember Anarchy is not a synonym for Chaos.

I’m curious, how would anarchy prevent catastrophic global warming?
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Re: Billionaires = Leading Cause of CC

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Sat 22 Dec 2018, 17:32:58

Nothing will prevent global warming, which is mostly natural with a minute contribution from burning FF's. But the warming will not be catastropic, either.
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