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Are We Running the Mouse Utopia Experiment?

Re: Are We Running the Mouse Utopia Experiment?

Unread postby derhundistlos » Thu 15 Aug 2019, 17:03:43

Asg70-

Let's get something straight. I did not broach the topic. Your friend, Cog, did. I refuse to allow gross distortions of the facts to stand unchallenged so I replied to his post. I find it odd that you said nothing previously. Only when I posted a reply did you become upset.
Alone among God’s primates, Man kills for sport and lust and greed. If he's permitted to breed in great numbers, he'll make a desert of his home & yours. For he hath becometh death, the great Destroyer of worlds. ~The Budha~

The good Earth- we could have saved it, but we were too damn cheap & lazy ~K. Vonnegut~
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Re: Are We Running the Mouse Utopia Experiment?

Unread postby EnergyUnlimited » Sun 18 Aug 2019, 07:34:28

derhundistlos wrote:"You really don't know from where drugs are purchased?
From your friendly local dealer.
Every kid knows which one it is. Just ask. :)"

No, "really I don't know". So for kicks, I took your "advice" and asked several teenagers here in Illinois where do I find the prescription pain medication local pusher. They just laughed and asked me if I was for real. Then they answered by telling me that, much to your disappointment, there are no prescription pain medication dealers prowling the streets.

Why these are to be "prescription" variete?
Those sold as powders and solutions as ready to use syringes have the same or comparble active ingredients.
As pain killers they are working as good (or even better) than prescription opioids.
Heroin is surely more effective pain killer than oxycodone is, if used within permissilble (mean safe) dose range.
All what you need is a decent dealer offering quality stuff. Or to be more reassured you may try to make a purchase from one nod up chain. Can be much cheaper too.

You and your kind have been fighting a failed war on drugs for the past 50 years and what do you have to show except for hundreds of billions of dollars of taxpayer funds down the toilet and a prison system overflowing with non-violent drug offenders, often times serving longer sentences than violent offenders.

Yeah, let's keep doing the same in your failed approach to drugs. That makes sense.

I do not fight any war on drugs.
I just express rather sad facts that opioids are available to anyone of any age and without any doctor help.
I do not like what I see, eg youngsters falling like flies on streets across America but this is where we are.
If there is a prescription crack down then the same peoples who are supplying these youngsters will also supply cancer patients.
My viev is that market forces are actually *winning* with regulatory efforts, mostly to detriment of society.
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Re: Are We Running the Mouse Utopia Experiment?

Unread postby Cog » Sun 18 Aug 2019, 07:41:26

From my experience, oncologists are pretty liberal with dispensing opiods of all kinds especially if the patient has a terminal diagnosis. I understand why the FDA has cracked down on them being prescribed for chronic pain if the medical condition is vague.
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Re: Are We Running the Mouse Utopia Experiment?

Unread postby derhundistlos » Mon 19 Aug 2019, 14:17:01

"I just express rather sad facts that opioids are available to anyone of any age and without any doctor help. I do not like what I see, eg youngsters falling like flies on streets across America."

Let's tackle the most rediculous part first:

Do you know the leading cause of death in the US for youngsters aged 15-20? It's vehicle fatalities and in 2017 (latest year for which stats are available) a total of 2,526 teens were killed in car crashes. Yet, no weeping and gnashing of teeth by you over the leading cause of death among youngsters. What an outrage!!!! Since we know "opioids" are NOT the leading cause of death, that means fewer than 2,526 teens died. The total US population of persons aged 15 to 20 is 20,220,000. For the sake of argument, say 2,525 youngsters died from opioids (one less than auto deaths in order to give you the greatest benefit of the doubt). Do you realize this results in a mortality rate of 0.012%- oh my, oh my!!! 0.012% hardly classifies as "youngsters dropping like flies"? Patently dumb.

As to point #1, I am happy to place a wager of $1,000 or $2k or $3k or more that you have no idea what you are talking about. If you are willing to place an equal wager of $1,000+, you will travel to my community and you will have (how many days of searching do you need?) a certain number of days to purchase prescription pain medication from a dealer. The loser pays your travel expenses.
Alone among God’s primates, Man kills for sport and lust and greed. If he's permitted to breed in great numbers, he'll make a desert of his home & yours. For he hath becometh death, the great Destroyer of worlds. ~The Budha~

The good Earth- we could have saved it, but we were too damn cheap & lazy ~K. Vonnegut~
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Re: Are We Running the Mouse Utopia Experiment?

Unread postby EnergyUnlimited » Tue 20 Aug 2019, 00:21:13

@derhundistlos,
One way or another opioid overdose *is* a leading cause of death across US with ~70 000 of *proven* fatalities per year in 2017. It means that ~2% (!!!!) of total death toll across US is overdose related.
Means 1 recorded death per 50 US wide is related to drug overdose.
Victims are usually below 40, commonly below 30.

Second part is that you *do not* understand my post.
Cancer patient deprived of prescription pain killers may settle (to the same effect) with illegal afghan heroin or chinese/mexican fentanyl delivered to his doorstep by a local street dealer.
Successors of El Chapo will make sure that this is *always* the case.
This product will not be manufactured by Pfizer or someone alike but nevertheless it will work as good or even better than "official" stuff.
Heroin is more potent than oxycodone when administered within permissible (safe) dose ranges.
Are you claiming that there are no drug dealers in your local area?
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Re: Are We Running the Mouse Utopia Experiment?

Unread postby derhundistlos » Thu 22 Aug 2019, 11:59:50

Energylimited-

I shall once and for al PROVE you are full of crap that "youngsters are dropping like flies due to opioids". You're a typical Trumper who despite EVIDENCE to the contrary continues to embrace lies and distortions because you can't admit you are wrong- dead wrong in your case.

There are easily verifiable statistics regarding the leading causes of death among 15-24 youth in the US that demonstrates your claim that "youngsters are dropping like flies due to opioids" is pure nonsense.

The FACTS as of 08.19.2019: https://www.verywellhealth.com/top-caus ... 24-2223960

1. ACCIDENTS: Accidents account for 41 percent of deaths among people in the 15 to 24 age group.

2. SUICIDE: Suicide accounts for 18 percent of deaths.

3. HOMICIDE: Sixteen percent of deaths among people age 15 to 24 are due to homicide.

4. DRUGS & ALCOHOL: Fifteen percent of the deaths of in this age group were induced by drugs or alcohol.

5. CANCER: Cancer deaths account for 5 percent of deaths among the 15 to 24 age group.
Alone among God’s primates, Man kills for sport and lust and greed. If he's permitted to breed in great numbers, he'll make a desert of his home & yours. For he hath becometh death, the great Destroyer of worlds. ~The Budha~

The good Earth- we could have saved it, but we were too damn cheap & lazy ~K. Vonnegut~
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Re: Are We Running the Mouse Utopia Experiment?

Unread postby Newfie » Fri 15 Nov 2019, 11:42:57

There are lots of ways to compile statistics, for example pro-gun activist exclude suicides from “homicide by gun” while antis included it. My Dad has an operation due to pancreatic cancer, no cancer he would not have had the operation. He did not survive the operation, they attributed his death to hardening of the arteries. Famous cancer hospital, has a high cancer cure rate, and intends to keep it.

Looking at the 4 top killers I can easily see opioids contributing to at least 4 of them. Accidents - driving stoned, Suicide-drug induced depression or over dose, Homicide-drug deal gone bad, Drugs and alcohol- self obvious as opioids are drugs.
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Re: Are We Running the Mouse Utopia Experiment?

Unread postby Newfie » Fri 15 Nov 2019, 11:46:51

Elsewhere we were talking about the definition of “snowflake” and some took exception to the term feeling it was pejorative against milenials. I took exception stating I thought folks today, including boomers, have lead a soft life and don’t understand hardship or what they are individually capable of.

I came across the below picture and I thought it fit the discussion.

The guy with the sledge is beating ice off of nested dories on the deck of a schooner.

Image
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Re: Are We Running the Mouse Utopia Experiment?

Unread postby Subjectivist » Sat 16 Nov 2019, 05:11:47

Newfie wrote:There are lots of ways to compile statistics, for example pro-gun activist exclude suicides from “homicide by gun” while antis included it. My Dad has an operation due to pancreatic cancer, no cancer he would not have had the operation. He did not survive the operation, they attributed his death to hardening of the arteries. Famous cancer hospital, has a high cancer cure rate, and intends to keep it.

Looking at the 4 top killers I can easily see opioids contributing to at least 4 of them. Accidents - driving stoned, Suicide-drug induced depression or over dose, Homicide-drug deal gone bad, Drugs and alcohol- self obvious as opioids are drugs.


Yup, it is all about who is writing the death certificate and what they want it to say. I first ran into this a couple decades back when two Detroit police officers had an arrestee die in custody. He was flying high on Cocaine, got violant and when restrained went into cardiac arrest. The Medical Examiner ruled the death as being a Homicide under the standard that if they had just let him walk away his heart attack wouldn't have taken place at that time. The coroner did not even wait for the lab results showing how many drugs were in the 'victims' system at the time of death before signing the death certificate and blaming the officers. This set off a media feeding frenzy and the two officers were convicted of second degree murder and sent to prison.
https://apnews.com/5263284d2b247d8fc4f97b28ae6d76a8
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Re: Are We Running the Mouse Utopia Experiment?

Unread postby EnergyUnlimited » Sat 16 Nov 2019, 06:53:24

Subjectivist wrote:Yup, it is all about who is writing the death certificate and what they want it to say. I first ran into this a couple decades back when two Detroit police officers had an arrestee die in custody. He was flying high on Cocaine, got violant and when restrained went into cardiac arrest. The Medical Examiner ruled the death as being a Homicide under the standard that if they had just let him walk away his heart attack wouldn't have taken place at that time. The coroner did not even wait for the lab results showing how many drugs were in the 'victims' system at the time of death before signing the death certificate and blaming the officers. This set off a media feeding frenzy and the two officers were convicted of second degree murder and sent to prison.

Death of someone very much like an aircrash rarely have a single specific reason, eg beheading.
Usually there is a large spectrum of reasons, each contributing a small percentage of input to the chain of events leading to death. Nevertheless usually there *is* a primary reason other than a fact that you have been born.
In case you mention I would say that cocaine use for certain and an overdose (possibly) was such a reason.
Nevertheless officers were facilitators/enablers.
Hence 2nd degree murder, not 1st degree. They were an important factor in overall chain of events even if they didn't intend to kill him. In their actions they have accepted a death of individual as a possible outcome by excessive use of force.
Resisting arrest is not a reason to accept a death of someone as a possible outcome unless he is an immediate *and credible* threat to public.
There should be more sentencing like this one and american police (which is now easy to confuse with bandits) would take a notice.
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Re: Are We Running the Mouse Utopia Experiment?

Unread postby Nefarious » Sat 16 Nov 2019, 11:03:19

Newfie wrote:Elsewhere we were talking about the definition of “snowflake” and some took exception to the term feeling it was pejorative against milenials. I took exception stating I thought folks today, including boomers, have lead a soft life and don’t understand hardship or what they are individually capable of.

I came across the below picture and I thought it fit the discussion.

The guy with the sledge is beating ice off of nested dories on the deck of a schooner.

Image


Yeah in general millennials are snowflakes but can't hold a candle against generation z. Never have I seen such an entitled and spoiled group of lazy individuals. So much so I'm starting to question Darwin's theory of evolution, we clearly aren't evolving but devolving as a species.
'By the pricking of my thumbs,Something Wicked This Way Comes."
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Re: Are We Running the Mouse Utopia Experiment?

Unread postby EnergyUnlimited » Sat 16 Nov 2019, 11:11:09

Nefarious wrote: So much so I'm starting to question Darwin's theory of evolution, we clearly aren't evolving but devolving as a species.

Darwin's theory works.
It removes from circulation everything what have gone decadent and/or obsolete.
In this particular case it is White race or most of it.
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Re: Are We Running the Mouse Utopia Experiment?

Unread postby Nefarious » Sat 16 Nov 2019, 11:25:56

EnergyUnlimited wrote:
Nefarious wrote: So much so I'm starting to question Darwin's theory of evolution, we clearly aren't evolving but devolving as a species.

Darwin's theory works.
It removes from circulation everything what have gone decadent and/or obsolete.
In this particular case it is White race or most of it.

I don't think it's limited to the white race and Darwin's theory removes those that can't adapt to their surroundings. Unfortunately we have intervened in that natural process. For example wee put warning labels on everything. Don't use blow dryer in the shower it could cause electrocution. Television commercials of a guy feeding a sleeping tiger with the words DO NOT ATTEMPT placed at the bottom of the screen. This allows an idiot to live a reproduce other idiots instead of taking them out of the gene pool.
'By the pricking of my thumbs,Something Wicked This Way Comes."
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